| Author |
Message |
    
Hildo Thiel
Member
Username: hildo
Post Number: 485
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 10:47 am: | 
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I found some information concerning a Mrs. Aino Antila, on the Ellis Island site. This Mrs. Antila was traveling on the Laconia on the 16th of August 1914, she had with her two young boys named Carl, age 4 and John, age 3. John is the English version of Jan. Her nationality is given as finnish and that of the boys as US citizen. They were traveling to Michigan.
The confendential report said that they were deported passengers and had the Russian nationality.
Is it possible, that this are the same persons or not?
Regards,
Hildo
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Geoff Whitfield
Member
Username: geoff
Post Number: 921
Registered: 11-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:16 am: |
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Hildo,
Yes, this was the same family. Can't think why they were being deported however unless it was something to do with their being hospitalised upon arrival at Ellis Island. Maybe nobody was able to support them, Mrs Antila gives the name of a friend to whom she was travelling - not a husband. |
Hildo Thiel
Member
Username: hildo
Post Number: 486
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 6:33 pm: |
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Hello Geoff,
Thanks for the information.
regards,
Hildo
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 8:15 pm: |
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Her name is quite Finnish, is there proof of where she was born and where her sons were born? |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 54
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hi Hildur,
Mrs. Antila was Finnish, but, as you probably know, Finland was ruled by Russia in 1915 and therefore her nationality is listed as Russian. She had a sister named Marja living in Oulu, so maybe she came from this area
Peter |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
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Hi Peter,
You mentioned Mrs. Antila's sister. Do you happen to know what her maiden name was?
Thanks!
Zach |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
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Just in case you're confused, I meant the maiden name of Mrs. Antila, not her sister. |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 55
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 12:42 am: |
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Hi Zach,
The only information I can give you is that Mrs. Antila's sister was Marja Myllyla. I do not know if she was married, or single, so therefore do not know if this was her maiden name.
Sorry I can not be of more help, but if you can find out more, I would appreciate you letting me know.
Regards,
Peter |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 34
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 2:53 am: |
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Hi Peter,
No problem. I was just curious. I did a quick search for Marja Myllyla and a Maria Myllyla (B. 1883) died in Michigan, according to the Social Security Death Index. I thought this was interesting because this was the destination listed on Ellis Island for Mrs. Antila and her sons.
Thanks!
Zach |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 8:46 pm: |
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Hi Zach,
Yes, that is interesting. I do not know how common the name "Myllyla" is in Finland, but maybe some more information could come to light in the future, which might be relevant.
Of course, it is a possibility that this woman you found might have been Mrs. Antila herself. It was not unknown, then or now, that deported people who wanted to go to a country they were deported from, would adopt the name of a relative, or even a ficticious name. Obviously, it is much more difficult today with photo, fingerprint, and DNA records, but back then, well....
Sorry, I am probably only complicating the issue, but if you learn any more, I would be interested to know about it, and if I uncover anymore details, I will contact you.
Take care, Zach,
Peter |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 1:28 am: |
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Hi Peter,
It has already been complicated. I actually did a search on Ellis Island too and I found ANOTHER Maria Myllyla bound for her father in Michigan. She is too young to be the Maria Myllyla in the Social Security Index. Apparently Michigan was a popular place to settle for Finnish immigrants and ladies named Maria Myllyla!
Zach |
Geoff Whitfield
Member
Username: geoff
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 11-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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Just to compound matters, I notice a Jan Anttila born in Oulu, Finland on 24th June 1912 to Mikko Antilla and Maria Myllyoja Anttila! What puzzles me is that the passnger list is stamped with "Deported" upon their arrival in 1914 - yet they were not returned until 1915! Also, according to the manifest, both children had been born in the U.S. - thereby making them citizens of that country?
Geoff |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 37
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
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That sounds a lot like the Jan Antila from the Lusitania. The age even fits.
I thought the same thing too when I read of them on Ellis Island. Several other third class passengers had children born in America, making them American citizens while their parents were still British.
I wonder if we will ever know who exactly the Antila family really were! |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 57
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 7:34 pm: |
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Hi Zach & Geoff,
This seems to be one of those threads where fact is stranger, or maybe more mysterious, than fiction.
In relation to your last sentence, Zach, maybe there is some Finnish member who might like to try his or her hand at detective work and see if they can find anything that might solve the mystery.
Any takers......Anyone???
Peter |
Zachary Schwarz
Member
Username: dvd5486
Post Number: 39
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 3, 2006 - 9:26 pm: |
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To make things even more difficult, Ellis Island gives Aino's place of birth as Hameenlinna. This Finnish city is toward the south of Finland while Oulu is more toward the middle of Finland. |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 193
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:22 pm: |
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I am from Finland and concerning Mrs. Antila's surnamae, i think there is an obvious(to Finns) mistake.
The origin of her name means Andrew's Home, and is spelled Anttila.
Antti is the Finnish form on Andrew, and the prefix-la, is what is placed at the end, to refer to a farm. My name is the same: Panu-la. My ancestors kept the name when the laws passed, and it's origin is from the mid 1800's with a very famous family, Maija and Juha Panula. Juha kept the name in to America and with his seocnd family. It was a very common naming system. There is no way a Finn could have a birth name spelled Antila. Mrs. Antilla probably changed it in America. As for her sons, there is some confusion, that maybe i can give insite too.
Jan was probably born in Finland, and could have been born with the same named spelled Finnish, Janne. It would give basicaly the same pronouciation, and would be easy to change to Jan.
Carl, i would have imagined would have been properly spelled with a K, and in Finnish, the letter C is not commonly used, and is considered a "loan" letter. Carl's birth name could have even been the more popular Kaarle, which is Finish.
Just some worlds, and thoughts. As for the deportation, it could have been that Aino was from Finland, and her children (one or both) were America, but with Aino being deported, it only seemed proper to take her children. Does any one have anything on her husband. |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:59 am: |
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Hi Hildur,
One of the most common problems with people moving from one country to another is the mis-spelling of names. I can only imagine the number of mistakes made in recording the names of people who arrived at Ellis Island - I have found quite a few searching through only a relatively small amount, but it is very easy to understand how this happened.
If a person of Irish descent was employed at Ellis Island, then it is reasonable to assume that if a group of Irish immigrants arrived, their names would have been recorded correctly in most cases. This would have been because there would be familiarity in the names. But if a person of German/Finnish/Swedish descent was recording the names of these Irish immigrants, they would not be familiar with Irish names and their spelling, and therefore a greater number of errors could be expected. This would be true for all nationalities, and is still a problem to this day.
It is possible that "Antila" was a spelling error made by officials at Ellis Island or Cunard, or it might have been a deliberate decision by Aino Antila to make her name more noticeable or individual.
Perhaps you are in a position to look further in to the matter.
Is it possible for you to check newspaper archives or libraries in Finland which may give a clue to solve this puzzle? If you read all the postings on this thread, you will see that Aino had a sister living in Oulu, so perhaps records from that area would be worth looking at. I would really be interested to know if there is any more information to be found concerning the "Antila" or Antilla" family.
Peter |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 197
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:09 pm: |
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I will definatly look in to it. |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:40 pm: |
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Kiitos Hildur,
I look forward seeing anything you discover
Peter |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 5:49 pm: |
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I found a possble birthdate for John Anttila, it says a Johan Anttila was born in America in Michigan on 28 sep 1910, and that fits because he would be three on Lucy. |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 6:46 pm: |
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It is proving a little difficult to find Aino's sister in records, but i'm still looking. |
Peter Kelly
Member
Username: pgk1
Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 1:17 am: |
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Hi Hildur,
Johan being born in Michigan would fit the known facts. I will try to find the address of Aino's sister in Oulu, which maight help you.
Peter |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 226
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 4:05 pm: |
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Depending on how old Mrs. Antila was(any guesses?), i have a possible birthdate listed as 7 jan 1881, but we need to find out how old she was on Lucy to se if the date fits |
