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Message |
    
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 12212
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 6:19 am: | 
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>>We will never again feel the shock in seeing a ship disaster as we have been hardened to it by the Titanic.<<
Hope you're right about that. Modern cruise ships tend to play it safe, but when you get down to it, a really bad one is long overdue. I hope it stays overdue, but human carelessness and stupidity being what it is, it's really only a matter of time.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Paul Rogers
Member
Username: progers
Post Number: 481
Registered: 11-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:53 pm: |
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There have been several really bad ones recently - mostly in the Philippines area involving ferries.
Titanic was pre-WWI. As such, the disaster hit in the 'Golden Age' and it did have an impact on humanity's faith in science overcoming nature. With all the wars and disasters that have occurred since then, I think Mindy has a point; it takes something pretty extreme (e.g. 9/11 or the tsunami disaster of '04) to cause the same level of general shock that Titanic generated in 1912. I don't think any shipping disaster could have the same impact today as Titanic did in her time, unless it involved immense collateral damage (as might be caused by a LNG or ULCC ship explosion in port). |
Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 2092
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 6:54 pm: |
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quote:The Man that Sank the White Star Line
http://www.titanic-whitestarships.com/MGY_Demise.htm\
Although from a quick read of what's on that page it appears to be reasonable accurate, there are three clear mistakes (or unclear recitations). First, the attempt by Pirrie and Kylsant to buy IMM's British-flag ships, blocked by the U.S. Government, was in 1919, not the mid- to late 1920's. Second, Kylsant didn't terminate the "cost plus" arrangement between H&W and White Star after he took control of H&W; White Star did, resulting in the substandard Laurentic II, the only White Star ship built on a fixed-price basis. (After Royal Mail bought White Star, Kylsant effectively controlled both parties, and reinstated the "cost plus" arrangement.) Finally, Cunard bought out the White Star interest in CWS in 1947, not 1950; 1950 was when the line's name reverted to "Cunard."
quote:Did White Star directly inherit one of the German Liners taken as a spoil of war following Germany's defeat in WWI? I know the US got at least one but I think GB did as well---but white star or Cunard?
"Inherit" isn't quite the right word; the reparations vessels were purchased from the British government after they were turned over by Germany. Cunard and White Star jointly purchased two of Hapag's three big liners, Imperator becoming Cunard's Berengaria and Bismarck becoming White Star's Majestic II. (The third, Vaterland, became United States Lines' Leviathan.) White Star also acquired NDL's Columbus, which became Homeric, and Berlin, which became Arabic III, from among the reparations ships ceded to Britain.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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Brent Holt
Member
Username: brent_holt
Post Number: 180
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 7:32 pm: |
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From The Man that Sank the White Star Line:
"The converted oil-fired Olympic was barely able to pass it's annual sea worthiness inspections by the mid 1920's and underwent a series of refits then eventually "patch work" to get her past inspections."
What? That is an inaccurate statement by any means!
Brent |
Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 450
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:13 pm: |
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>>We will never again feel the shock in seeing a ship disaster as we have been hardened to it by the Titanic.<<
The ones that really made an impact on me were:-
A/ Wahine- as it was in my own city and I was in the same time and place. I also travelled on the ship before it sank
B/ Herald of Free Enterprise- at the time because of how similar it was to the Wahine at the time and later when I learned how culpable corporate practise was in the cause of the sinking.
C/ Estonia- at first because of the high death toll and later when I learned more unofficialy about the state of the ship that left Tallin.
more horrific than Titanic to me.
D/ Wilhelm Gusloff- for its high death toll and low % of survivors. the detail madeit even worse when viewed with the objectivity of maritime history
E/ Lusitania- for all that we have learnt over the years
For me the Titanic has it's time and place in history
and with me given my own family history.
It was a shocker which I think can be compared to the events we now refer to as 9/11.
However if we were to have a limited nuclear war in the Middle East tomorrow [God forbid]
9/11 would not diminsh my response to it or my feelings about it as an ordinary person.
Mindy can you tell me more about that lecture please as I am interested.
Feel free to PM me if you wish.
cheers
Martin
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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Paul Brown
Member
Username: streetskater
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 4:31 am: |
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The Titanic Story is truly transcendental and I don't think that can be understood or analyzed on a purely logical level.
Certainly during and after the 2 great wars I doubt they thought we'd still be this fascinated by Titanic in the 21st century.
I can remember for years and years we thought she was lying pristine on the bottom of the ocean, so deep and cold that she'd be not only unchanged from the day she sank but possibly able to be raised in one piece and resurrected like a floating museum. That added greatly my fascination with her as a boy.
When Ballard discovered her in pieces and broken I thought that would finish the legend but quite the contrary. Perhaps in another hundred years when she's nothing more than a big red stain on the Atlantic sea bed (with a few bronze propellers still intact) she'll be less fascinating---but I wouldn't bank on it. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 12227
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 4:31 pm: |
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>>Certainly during and after the 2 great wars I doubt they thought we'd still be this fascinated by Titanic in the 21st century.<<
You might be amazed to realize just how close it came to being forgotten. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that Walter Lord was the real father of modern day Titanic research, first with his book and then the movie based on that book which both managed to capture the human aspects of the story in a way that took on a life of it's own. Absent that, the Titanic would have been just another shipwreck. A footnote rather then a pop culture icon of disaster.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Paul Brown
Member
Username: streetskater
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 6:18 am: |
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My own fascination with Titanic slightly predates Walter's Lord's book and Movie. My parents told me about her circa 1954-55 and I was hooked. Being Halifax born and raised with both parents in the Royal Canadian Navy--probably helped---plus the memorial cemetary is right there.
Certainly "A Night to Remember" cemented my fascination--and yes I remember it in it's first release at the theaters.
I kept my Titanic fascination and generally regard all these post-Ballard and certainly post-Cameron Titanic buffs as Johnny Come Latelies :-)) |
Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 451
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:53 pm: |
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I blame my Grandmother!.
I also predate Ballard and she began telling me about the Titanic in the late 1960's / early 1970's and how she saw the ship on the harbour before she sailed to Southampton.
I was allowed to sit up late one Saturday night with my brothers and Dad to see A Night To Remember on TV. I was hooked. I would buy the 1976 hard cover illustrated ed. when I was in my early teens at college. By the mid 1980's I was beginning to think that I had seen all there was to see about the Titanic....until Bob Ballard made headlines in Seotember 1985 and then it was all on again. It hasn't stopped since although the Lusitania has come to occupy equal position in my interests.
I would be born five years after ANTR opened in the cinemas but long enough before 1985 to wonder where she was or if she could be raised
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 12240
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 2:03 pm: |
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I wouldn't short sell any of the Johnny-come-latelies. Walter Lord may have been the father of modern Titanic research, but what he built was the foundation. Some of the most important discoveries and forensics analysis has come within the period of the last twenty years.
Of course, they did have some help by way of the wreck being found...
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 12437
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 4:27 am: |
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Kent, I just wanted to let you know that I finished reading your book and I am completely blown away. That last chapter especially where the sinking was described was probably the most vivid and starkly realistic I've ever read. With so much drek and ratbaggery out there surrounding the Lusitania, this work is a real breath of fresh air!
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 523
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:23 pm: |
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Hi Michael-
Actually I have a few comments about what you said, but will put that under Kent's book thread.
Mike
Gene Rayburn: Good answer Joyce! (Gene rolls eyes and scowls)
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J. Kent Layton
Member
Username: jkent
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 8:02 pm: |
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Michael Standart -- (just to avoid confusion) 
-------
Kent, I just wanted to let you know that I finished reading your book and I am completely blown away. That last chapter especially where the sinking was described was probably the most vivid and starkly realistic I've ever read. With so much drek and ratbaggery out there surrounding the Lusitania, this work is a real breath of fresh air!
------
Many thanks on the positive feedback... It is very rewarding to see that everyone seems to be enjoying the book so much. The "breath of fresh air" feeling is exactly what we were going for. I say "we", since this book would not have been possible in its finished form without the assistance of both Mike Poirier and Jim Kalafus.
Another one of the positive bits of feedback I've received was from a gentleman who wrote that he was so thoroughly engrossed in the career and life of the ship that he almost did not want to read the chapter on the sinking by the time he got to it. This is exactly the feeling I was hoping to achieve with the book -- because it's exactly how contemporaries felt.
The ship had been a living legend for years, a reliable old friend, and suddenly she was gone -- and with 1,200 people, no less. It was astonishing, surprising, and horrific, a sensation that has tended to get "drowned out" in many books on the subject.
As Mike P. mentioned, I am also going to re-post this on the book thread. I am also very interested in hearing what you liked most about the book, as Mike asked. Take care!
Regards,
J. Kent Layton
http:/www.atlanticliners.com/atlantic_liners_book.htm
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Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 464
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:52 pm: |
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Michael S.
Please do tell more
thanks
Martin
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 12662
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:54 pm: |
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>>Please do tell more <<
You'll just have to get the book. The way Bailey and Ryan focused in the singular event of the Lusitania's sinking and the real political mechinations that led to the U.S. entry into The Great War, Kent's book focuses on the ship herself and the sum total of her life.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 465
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:46 am: |
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>>You'll just have to get the book<<
Believe me I have my order in for a hard cover volume. It's just a matter of the printer releasing it to Kent. The bits of the book I have seen are awesome.
Martin
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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J. Kent Layton
Member
Username: jkent
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:48 am: |
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Martin & All:
Yes, there has been a frustrating series of delays on the hardcover. But, happily, I believe we're on the road to getting it all sorted out. I will continue to post updates as they become available, and would like to thank everyone for their continued patience. The publisher also wishes to extend their gratitude for everyone's patience in this matter, and asked me to convey their sincerest apologies for the delays.
I will also post this message on the book thread, as the conversation seems to have spread out over both forums. Take care, everyone!
Regards,
J. Kent Layton
http:/www.atlanticliners.com/atlantic_liners_book.htm
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Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 466
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:21 pm: |
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No problem Kent,
all good things are worth waiting for and from what I have seen of it, this book is one of them
Martin
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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J. Kent Layton
Member
Username: jkent
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:31 am: |
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Good news! The hardcover version of "Lusitania: An Illustrated Biography" has been released. My first batch is coming in to fulfill orders placed through TMBStudios; additional orders can also be placed directly through the publisher's site, as well. (www.Lulu.com)
Remember that unlike the softcover, the hardcover has no separate ISBN number, and will not be available in bookstores, Amazon, Barnes, etc. It will only be available through the publisher and TMBStudios.
I hope everyone enjoys the book. Your patience through the prepublication delays has been much appreciated! Take care!
Regards,
J. Kent Layton
http:/www.atlanticliners.com/atlantic_liners_book.htm
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Martin Owen Cahill
Member
Username: martin
Post Number: 478
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 2:17 pm: |
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First the Lauriat book, Now this
Great News.
cheers
Martin
"No Sir, We just hit the cruiser"
helmsman on Queen Mary
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