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Ren-Horng James Wang
Member
Username: rjwang
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 11:05 pm: | 
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While not directly Lusitania-related, I came across a preview for the movie "Finding Neverland," a movie about playwright J. M. Barrie, with Dustin Hoffman playing Charles Frohman. I haven't gotten around to seeing the movie because it's not released here yet, but to anyone who has, I was wondering what you think about the casting choice. I also saw in the preview that Hoffman was sporting a beard, looking very different from the pictures of Frohman that I'm used to seeing! What do you think?
AIM: Aravantis
ICQ: 164747622
http://rmslusitania.info
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Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: rbigham
Post Number: 924
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 5:21 pm: |
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I haven’t seen the movie either but if Dustin Hoffman sports a beard that’s a really bad mistake in casting. Frohman did not wear a beard at all during his career as far as I can tell, however his brother Daniel did at times. I think if Hoffman is bearded it shows a lack of historical authenticity and serves only to blur the public’s already faint memory of the great "C.F."
Frohman in 1914. |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2132
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 6:04 pm: |
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I'm looking forward to seeing the film, as Frohman has a particular fascination for me, as well as Barrie's Peter Pan, the American version which starred the incomparable Maude Adams in her most famous role. Daniel Frohman, in his biography of his famous brother, Manager and Man, never mentions a beard. His great signature was his cane in later years, which he called jokingly "my wife" as he leaned heavily on it, and his ever-present cigar. I caught a film last night on television about Florenz Ziegfeld which had a cameo scene of Frohman. The actor was made up to look a lot like the photo above. Yes, it is always distressing to see a lack of homework -David Jansen as Astor in SOS Titanic with full beard was a jarring note. Sort of fun too that Titanic's Kate Winslet is in this new Barrie film. That TV film last night was great, with Gilded Age darlings such as Anna Held, Billie Burke, Lillian Lorraine -and fabulous costumes and sets.
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Ben Holme
Member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 631
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:21 pm: |
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I have never before seen a "hatless" Frohman. Thanks for sharing, Randy.
Hoffman has a less than appropriate physique for the role of the festively plump C.F, and as such, I'm considering other potential candidates for the role. Bob Hoskins is physically very similar, and, of course, has an obvious aptitude for emulating a New York accent.
Hmmm... |
Inger Sheil
Moderator
Username: isheil
Post Number: 3364
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 9:09 am: |
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Great images  Although I've been looking forward to seeing the film, it hadn't even occured to me that Frohman would of course be in it! I dashed off to the IMDb to see if Barrie's great friend, Robert Falcoln Scott, also got a look in...doesn't look like it, though (possibly the time span is wrong - I'm not sure what era the movie covers). |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2143
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 6, 2004 - 5:00 am: |
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Finding Neverland is not the film for jolly pre-holiday joy, but is very beautifully staged and directed, costumed and executed. Johnny Depp gives an admirable portrayal of Sir James Barrie and a passable accent as well. Dustin Hoffman's incarnation of Charles Frohman, alas, is sadly lacking. He is not even remotely physically akin to the famous stage manager, being entirely too thin, too bearded, and too athletic. Althought the famous cane makes one appearance, Hoffman uses it as more of a fashion accessory and not the real support demanded by the very arthritic Frohman at this stage of his life. Edwardian costume and decor devotees will revel in the visual feast. Buxom Kate Winslet is heard to yell "Jack" several times, (the name of one of her boys)recalling her more famous role of Rose Dawson, and of course she looks lovely in corset, trailing sickroom robes, and flowing hair. Without giving the ending entirely away, it's safe to say that her exit from the film should have been made far earlier on, as she does tend to chew up the scenery in the last half hour. I would have loved to have seen a little more of the story of Peter Pan, Barrie's friendship with Frohman, and more of his marital situation. I waited, but not in vain, at last, for the most memorable line of the play, and the one for which Maude Adams was celebrated in 1905 in her interpretation of Peter, when Tinkerbell lay dying. She would come out to the footlights, lean forward and look into the eyes of the children in the audience and beseech them with the line, "Do you believe in fairies?" Then urging them to applaud if so, Tinkerbell comes to life through their belief. A magical stage moment. One leaves the cinema sober, wistful, and a little melancholy. |
Jonathan Granato
Member
Username: jake_angus
Post Number: 92
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 6, 2004 - 10:48 am: |
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Shelley, after seeing Kate in all her beauteous thin-ness on Leno a few weeks ago, I think it's a safe bet to say the scenery was deffo low-carb! ;`} |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 7, 2004 - 4:48 am: |
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Hollywood takes its usual liberties. Actually Barrie met Sylvia Davies (who was indeed a relative of the famous Daphne DuMaurier) when her attorney husband was still alive. Barrie became a friend of the whole family before 1904, the year when Peter Pan made its UK debut. Not widowed until 1907, Sylvia and her five boys became Barrie's real family, and he helped with their tuition. After Sylvia's death of cancer in 1910, he became their guardian. The saddest part of all is that 3 of the boys died tragically, little Peter, the inspiration for Peter Pan's "boy who would not grow up", committed suicide in his 60's- thankfully long after Barrie was dead. Life will always be more interesting than fiction. Somebody should tell the film makers. |
Jason D. Tiller
Moderator
Username: jtiller
Post Number: 2519
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 3:01 pm: |
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I just saw this movie on Saturday and I agree with you Shell, it is not the type of movie for the holidays, but it's beautifully done nonetheless. Johnny Depp, Kate Winslet and even the boy who played Peter played their roles very well, I thought. It was interesting to see Charles Frohman in the film, even though Dustin Hoffman portrays him incorrectly.
"One leaves the cinema sober, wistful, and a little melancholy"
I'll second that. I definitely had those feelings when I left the theatre.
"To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
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William Graham
Member
Username: jack
Post Number: 28
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 7:57 pm: |
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Happy Birthday Charles Frohman! |
Christopher Repole
Member
Username: repole28
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:44 pm: |
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Hello
I was wondering if anyone had found any accounts of Frohman's last hours on board the Lusitania, i.e. where he was seen last, if he made an attempt to save himself, etc. etc. Thanks!
Chris |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:19 am: |
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He was with Rita Jolivet, George Vernon, Captain Scott and possibly Vanderbilt at the end. Rita, the only survivor of the group, related that they stood by the A deck first class entrance, and were washed off the ship when it sank. Rita survived atop an overturned lifeboat, and George Vernon, her brother in law, died after slipping from another damaged boat. What became of Scott after the ship sank is unknown, other than that he died. Rita would claim, many times, that Frohman had said something to the effect of "Why fear death, it is the most exciting adventure in life" at the end. Frohman and Vernon's bodies were recovered, with Frohman being buried in NYC and Vernon in Queenstown. The reason I said Vanderbilt may have been with them is that although Miss Jolivet often clamed that he was with their party, the one time she testified under oath she equivocated and said that a man stood with them whom she was later told was Vanderbilt. |
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 211
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
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I think poor Rita's memory was getting foggy. An acquaintance and fellow survivor, Wallace Phillips said the following in his 1915 deposition-
"I saw Alfred Vanderbilt, Mr. Frohman, Guy Vernon, and Miss Rita Jolivet, A. Scott, and three or four others whom I did not know standing close together and spoke to them, stating that there was no chance whatever of getting off on that side of the boat and that they had better cross to the other side and do it quickly. All of the party however decided that they would stay where they were for a few minutes."
Clemency: We've been torpedoed! Oh, Mother! What shall we do?
Millicent: Get the jewelry.
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Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 2216
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:10 pm: |
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>I think poor Rita's memory was getting foggy.
Certainly possible! By the time of her final marriage she had, after all, forgotten ten or more entire years of her life, so in 1917 the memory fade may already have commenced. Sometimes the results of her memory loss were comic, such as on the occasion in the mid-1920s when she and her mother traveled together, became mutally muddled, and lost the equivalent of a third person's entire life off of their combined ages. It may have run in the family- Inez, her sister, made her US debut in 1900 at age 16, and died 15 years later at the tragically young age of 26
On a more serious vein, Rita may have been having one of her rare entirely-non-fanciful moments when she testified. She might not have know, for certain, if it was Vanderbilt because A) he might not have been with them for all that long and B) she might not have been looking, since I believe the way she phrased it was that this "Vanderbilt" was standing behind her. |
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 496
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 7:00 pm: |
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Michael Cundiff
Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 949
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 6:47 pm: |
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ALAS! I have inadvertently stumbled upon a Charles Frohman signature. SEE: TLS signed @
http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/jpeg/252609.jpg
Michael Cundiff
NV, USA |
Michael Cundiff
Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 951
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 10:28 pm: |
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Additonally I learned that..."Al Hayman had pointed out to his friend Frohman that the American Liner New York was also sailing on May 1st, at noon, and would arrive in Liverpool just one day later than the Lusitania and that actesses Ellen Terry and Isadora Duncan would be on the slower ship. Frohman answered jokingly, "Well, Al, if you want to write me, just address the letter care of the German Submarine, U-4."
(You will recall the American Liner New York is of Titanic notoriety )
Michael Cundiff
NV, USA |
