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Message |
    
Peter Creedon
Member
Username: daniel_coburn
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 2, 2007 - 7:11 am: | 
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How long would you say that after the stern went under, that the flag pole broke off? Or was it folded over when the poop deck folded over because of the water? |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15881
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, December 3, 2007 - 5:09 am: |
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I don't think anyone can really say. For all we know, it may have made it all the way to the bottom only to be dislodged/broken on impact or been torn away when the poop deck peeled back.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1862
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:30 am: |
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Was it found lying near the stern someplace, or sticking out from underneath the upturned poop deck? Was that made of wood or steel? I always presumed the latter.
Obviously the flag itself is gone, too, although that is, indeed, a shame. Imagine having found that.
That reminds me of RTT, in which Alec Guinness' character had supposedly removed it before the sinking. Too bad that didn't really happen.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17386
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 3:54 am: |
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>>Was it found lying near the stern someplace, <<
Actually, I don't think it was found anywhere. I could be in error on that but RMSTI hasn't said anything if they have it. As far as what it was made of, I think it was steel. A wooden flagpole wouldn't have made a lot of sense because of preservation issues.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 135
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 4:14 am: |
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Preservation in what way, Michael? Do you mean the salt air would be too harsh?
To that I would say, there are wooden deck chairs and deck planking. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17390
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 4:23 am: |
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>>Do you mean the salt air would be too harsh?<<
Among other things, yes. If it were made of teak or live oak, I suppose it would hold up, but even then, steel would make for a much stronger material.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1863
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 5:46 am: |
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quote:steel would make for a much stronger material
We could say the same thing regarding the deck chairs and benches, but, then again, they'd have been more expensive, wouldn't they? 
Still, in all fairness, tall flagpoles could easily snap in windy weather or storms, so steel would be more essential for their composition.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1864
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 5:52 am: |
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quote:Actually, I don't think it was found anywhere.
If the flagpole wasn't found (i.e. nowhere near the stern), it likely didn't snap off during the stern's impact with the bottom.
I'd be curious to know what happened to it. The flagpole was right at the tip of the stern, so if it got snapped by the flailing poop deck, it would be lying nearby or be jutting out from under the curled deck.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17405
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 6:00 am: |
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>>so if it got snapped by the flailing poop deck, it would be lying nearby or be jutting out from under the curled deck.<<
I think that depends on how far down the stern had plunged into the water column if/when the thing snapped. If it happened halfway down, it could literally be anywhere.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1865
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 8:50 am: |
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That seems to be the only alternative. The point being: Since the flagpole is nowhere to be found, it must have snapped off on its way down and not at the bottom.
Some things from that ship will never be found, especially if they were taken by the current. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about debris being found as far south as the Bahamas. I'll even venture to say the Antartica. Hell, it's been almost a century. Anything metal, though, wouldn't likely have gone that far, but, as you've said, it could literally be anywhere.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 139
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 1:52 pm: |
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Mark is absolutely right. Something as small as the flagpole could be anywhere (or laying under anything).
It's also a basic piece of metal. Maybe it's down there in plain view and it's not apparent what it is while mixed with the rest of the wreckage. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17408
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 4:05 pm: |
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>>I'll even venture to say the Antartica.<<
I wouldn't take it to that extreme. The debris field covers about four square miles within which some fairly lightweight items landed. That doll's head which spooked Dr. Ballard for example. Organic items such as wood and cloth might be carried that far but they're bouyant, and by now, would have long decomposed.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1868
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:32 pm: |
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I was intentionally exaggerating the case, but of course light things have indeed been carried off some distance.
Jeremy, as Mike and I have said, it could be anywhere, and yes it could even be under something else or out in plain view. As you've said it's small enough to have been overlooked. All I said was that if it was on the stern upon impact with the bottom, it would be nearby or under the overturned poop deck. That wasn't inferring that the flagpole in the stern's proximity, just that it hasn't been sighted yet, so it could have drifted off.
Some organic material has survived to this day. I was just wondering as to the possibility of whether any of the flag itself is still intact, though I doubt it.
Anyway, just thinking aloud.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 144
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 11:11 pm: |
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Mark - Maybe I'm not being clear when posting on the board as you and I have done this before. I was *agreeing* with you. That's what "Mark is absolutely right" means. |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1870
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 12:10 am: |
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Yes, I know that. I was acknowledging what you had said. Perhaps my tone gave you the impression that I misunderstood you. I didn't, so no problem.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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David Brewer
Member
Username: titanicknowitall
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 6:45 pm: |
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well after the million shots of the same section of the bow in just about every documentary and picture, looking for little stuff like the flag pole doesn't actually sound so bad |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 18403
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 4:39 am: |
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>>looking for little stuff like the flag pole doesn't actually sound so bad<<
Except for the fact that if it still survives, it could be located anywhere in a debris field which covers over 4 square miles of area. This gives a new twist to the concept of trying to find a needle in a haystack. And you're looking in the dark!
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 6:25 am: |
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quote: . . . doesn't actually sound so bad
Perhaps not, but it would a a real challenge, that's for sure. Chances are that more hours and time would have to be put in trying to find that than it took to find the Titanic in the first place, and there would be no guarantee that you'd even find it at all. Needle in a haystack, indeed!
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 164
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 1:25 pm: |
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> well after the million shots of the
> same section of the bow in just about
> every documentary and picture
I'm with Dave here...if I see one more shot of that bow, I'm going to absolutely scream.
How about the propellers coming out of the darkness? Or any sort of originality? |
Samuel Halpern
Member
Username: cmdrsam
Post Number: 1983
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 3:58 pm: |
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quote:This gives a new twist to the concept of trying to find a needle in a haystack.
What's so interesting about finding a flag pole? Now finding the lost log line from the Californian would be something else.
Sam Halpern
TITANICOLOGY
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 18413
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 4:03 pm: |
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>>What's so interesting about finding a flag pole?<<
In and of itself, nothing. I was speaking to how difficult it would be to find it.
>>Now finding the lost log line from the Californian would be something else.<<
Indeed. That would settle a lot of questions, once and for all.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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David Brewer
Member
Username: titanicknowitall
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 4:09 pm: |
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i wasn't really saying that it would be interesting I was more saying that it would be nice to have a documentary on something other than the forecastle deck. I mean i've only seen mabye four pictures total of the stern section and i know being a basic pile of metal it's not really something to look at, but for some it would be a nice change |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 2133
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 8:17 am: |
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quote:What's so interesting about finding a flag pole?
The fact that it's Titanic's. Still, I can see where Californian's log would be substantially more important and informative.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 2134
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 8:21 am: |
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quote:a basic pile of metal it's not really something to look at
That would be somewhat jarring. Seeing Ken's painted depiction is disturbing enough.
On the other hand, I would love to explore the stern section more. A lot of answers regarding the breakup are held in there, and I would be very interested in finding out what they are.
"When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!"
Rough-edged but harmless --Mark Hopkins
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Jim Currie
Member
Username: sailorjim
Post Number: 46
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2008 - 3:52 pm: |
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Actually a wood flag pole would make more sense. Made of Ash preferably. A steel one would give all sorts of maintenance problems not the least being corrosion in a salt atmosphere. Ash or oak is great - very rot resistant. The halyard block is usually the biggest problem with these things.
As afoot note: I used to have just such a flag pole at the stern of my boat. It was made from a spare oar which was found in the yard loft at the East Yard of John Brown's of Clydebank. I was told it was an oar which had been delivered before WW2 for one of the 'Queens' and never used. The yard carpenter turned it for me. Unfortunately I sold it with the boat. (I was yard newbuilding surveyor at the time). |
david wilson
Member
Username: skiboo
Post Number: 204
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:40 pm: |
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Regarding the flagpole,it's name is "jackstaff"as in union jack.Steel does not like a salt environment.On the other hand wood loves it.For example a favourite wood preservative is cuprinol.This is based on a saline(salt)solution.The staff would have been made of hickory,ash,maple or something similiar.
seven degrees west.
regards.
dw. |
