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Message |
    
Lee Damon
Member
Username: ldamon
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 5:19 pm: | 
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PLEASE...EVERYONE READ THIS:
http://home.earthlink.net/~llywarch/tnc02.html.htm
It will answer all of your questions! This is basically a dissertation examining all of the claims as to the "last song" and pitting them up against real evidence as well as analysis of the tunes themselves.
The final conclusion is that "Song d'Autumn" was played for about 7 minutes as the collapsible boat were being cut away and then, after a short break and retreat by the band (to a higher point on the superstructure), Hartley and perhaps a few others played at least a few strains of the "Propior Deo" version of "Nearer My God To Thee." It is hypothesized that they had about a minute to two minutes to play before the deck got too steep after she "righted herself" following the split up of the hull. Fascinating stuff. |
Jason D. Tiller
Moderator
Username: jtiller
Post Number: 4059
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 6:37 pm: |
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Hello Lee,
Welcome aboard.
That link does not work and I'll bet that it's not a good source. But regardless, as already noted in this thread, no one knows for sure which final song the band played. Some passengers in their accounts insist it was Nearer My God to Thee, while others say it was Autumn or Songe d'Autumn. There has been a ton of speculation and debate for years by historians and researchers, but no final conclusion has been reached and probably never will be.
Just because that link provides the information, does not make it so.
"To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
43° 44' 01" N, 79° 24' 16"W
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 3806
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 7:24 pm: |
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Lee, if that's the article by J Marshall Bevil, there's some discussion about it further up in this thread (starting September 13, 2006). Bevil's approach as a musicologist is a very valid one and his thoughts on the subject are well worth reading, but I don't see his conclusions (or anyone else's) as definitive. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15116
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 12:43 am: |
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Lee, one of the long running problems with the internet is that once something is put up there, people start to take it as Holy Writ and sacred mantra which is inspired inerrant, and all without questioning whether or not it really is.
While a musicologists insights are certainly valuable, they are anything but definative to the point of settling the debate once and for all. Bluntly, if the people who were actually there cannot agree on this, it's quite a stretch to presume that somebody who wasn't can offer up that One Holy Grail which settles the question.
Keep in mind, he may be right, but the work is and remains speculative.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Will C. White
Member
Username: seastorywriter
Post Number: 82
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 5:44 am: |
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Mike-I'll settle this once and for all, it wasn't "Nearer My God To Thee", it was "Nearer The Cod To Me". LOL Every now and again one just has to loosen up a bit. WILL |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15126
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:57 am: |
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Nearer my Cod to Thee? Weeeellllll....they sure got near the fishes that night!
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Lee Damon
Member
Username: ldamon
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 4:51 am: |
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Oh, I never meant to insist any answer is wholly the correct one, but being a musician myself, I speculate two things. First, if you listen to all the versions of "nearer my god..." it's clear that the Propior Deo version is very similar to the American version (the one in Cameron's movie) and could easilly be mistaken by Brits and American's alike for the same song. In addition, it's more somber and emotional than the American version - it also has a much better musical phrase and expressiveness to it. As a musician, I would choose that version if I had a choice. Secondly, Harley was really only faminiar with the Deo version as he was not American and moreover had played the Deo version frequently as a child...point of fact, it was one of his favorite pieces. That and the fact that his surviving family had his tombstone engraved with the Deo version (I would think they would know).
The most compelling thing I liked about the research done is the timeline that is put forward. Using actual account a realatively accurate timetable is put forth which strongly supports the claim that Nearer my God to Thee could and quite possibly was played by a few musicians toward the very end. Facinating stuff. I would only ask that if you do read the info on the link I posted, please read the WHOLE thing before judging it. Some of the best stuff is toward the end!!! |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15293
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 5:01 am: |
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>>Using actual account a realatively accurate timetable is put forth which strongly supports the claim that Nearer my God to Thee could and quite possibly was played by a few musicians toward the very end.<<
That may be so, but the key words here are "Speculation" as well as "Possibly." That's not the same thing is "Definately." A fact which the paper itself admits to in the following:
quote:Can, or will, we ever be certain? The question, of course, is rhetorical. In the words of another beloved hymn, “Time, like an ever-rolling stream, bears all its sons away,” and survivors with memories of the calamity are no longer with us. Perhaps more to the point, the only fully reliable witnesses stood to their posts, discharged their duties, then lost their lives in the icy waters of the North Atlantic on that April night long ago.
That sums up the real problems nicely. The witnesses who were there gave mixed and contradictory evidence. Not surprising when you think about it. Being trapped on a sinking ship tends to focus your mind on more urgent priorities.
Mind you, I'm not asserting as a certain sure fact that this piece wasn't played towards the end. The author could be right, but we can't conclusively prove it one way or another. (shrug)
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Will C. White
Member
Username: seastorywriter
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 4:02 pm: |
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Whatever they played, they certainly were brave. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15308
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 4:27 pm: |
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>>Whatever they played, they certainly were brave.<<
No arguement with that one and in the end, I think that's what really matters. We could quibble from now until Doomsday about what they played, but what really counts is that when the crunch came on, they stepped up to the plate and did their part.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Wayne Keen
Member
Username: dockeen
Post Number: 272
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 2:05 am: |
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I have always wondered, if, confronted with the fate of that night, I could measure up to what some of the heros of that night did.
I strongly suspect I would fall *well* short of their standard.
Wayne |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15418
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 5:31 am: |
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>>I strongly suspect I would fall *well* short of their standard.<<
There's one way to find out, but it's the sort of test I wouldn't wish on anybody. Still, you might be surprised at what you can do if you really have to.
Keep in mind, courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is mustering the fortitude to do what you must even when you're scared out of your gourd.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Will C. White
Member
Username: seastorywriter
Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 8:46 pm: |
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Michael-You hit the nail square on the head. I think in my own case it would be because of the comradarie-I'm a senior NCO, and my "boys" look to me for guidance. They expect me to know what to do whatever happens, and believe me, sometimes it's like herding cats! My previous and current C.O.'s are right guys too, and you just don't want to let the side down. |
Andrea Cranford
Member
Username: cranfar6
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 12:33 am: |
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Of course, having examples and warnings to live up to can make the whole difference. If you know your actions would be liken to someone you admire like the musicians on the Titanic verses the ever hated (perhaps unjustly) Bruce Ismay you might find the courage to step up to the plate on that fact alone. Plus as the saying goes--we are what we repeatedly do. Handle the small problems well today and if anything comes up (I hope it never will!!!!) I'm sure you'd do your part. At least that how I see it.
Yeah, we'll probably never know what song those guys lasted played, but the idea of Nearer My God to Thee pulls at the heart strings. And even for those of us that prefer facts sometimes its okay to believe something for sentimental reasons (especially if it can never be proven wrong)
Andrea
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"They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and his wonders in the deep." King James Version |
Wayne Keen
Member
Username: dockeen
Post Number: 273
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 1:31 am: |
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There is another part of what I was mumbling about - and that is the desire that most of us share to have people who we see as heros - who show us the best part of humanity.
To those here who know what it is to go to sea in ships, and to lead others safely to port - thanks.
Wayne |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15432
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 4:35 am: |
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>>They expect me to know what to do whatever happens, and believe me, sometimes it's like herding cats! <<
As a retired petty officer, I've been there, done that.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Adam Burgess
Member
Username: titanica9600
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:24 pm: |
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>>Whatever they played, they certainly were brave.<<
>>No arguement with that one and in the end, I think that's what really matters.<<
I totally Agree
Trying is the first step towards failure
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Norbert Zimmermann
Member
Username: murdock
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
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I think,it was "Nearer my god to thee", because Wallace Hartley says,years before the disaster, when he stand on a sinking ship, he will play "Nearer my god to thee". And the band played this song. |
George L. Lorton
Member
Username: retro_geo
Post Number: 822
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 3:54 am: |
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I think the Band also did play Songe d' Automne that night though. Might not of been the last thing they played but they probably played it. |
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