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Message |
    
AL Glover
Member
Username: aa55us
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 8:02 pm: | 
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just a curious question,
when the 'SHIP' went under & started her plunge to the bottom,wondering IF any of the people below decks could have been
(A) caught in an air pocket
(B)since even after her discovery,there WERE/are still standing bulkheads that seems to have held all this time
(C)understand the pressure on the human body, but if "Titanic" sank slow enough any chance anyone might have been alive when this ship hit the bottom??
just curious
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1073
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Al,
The answer to questions 'A' and 'C' is a resounding "no." As you go deeper in the ocean, the pressure builds and builds. On the bottom, such a pressure is so intense (but the cubic inch) that the human lungs would literally implode. Such a reaction would occur farther up near the surface. It's virtually impossible for an exposed human being to remain alive at that depth.
Well, you'd say that those in the submersibles have. Remember that these submersibles are specially designed to withstand such pressure and accommodate human respiration, albeit for a temporary amount of time. This technology wasn't available at the time of the Titanic, so it's not reasonable to presume that Titanic would have facilitated airtight space or systems necessary to maintain human life at incredibly low depths of water. Even if some of the people on board were to have survived upon hitting the bottom, they wouldn't have survived for long, and they would most certain be dead by now, with virtually no remaining tissue to be discovered.
I hope this helps, although I'm positive that several others will come right up behind me and relay the exact same information as if my post weren't even here, ;) hehe.
Take care
--Mark
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Joshua Gulch
Member
Username: joshgulch
Post Number: 598
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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But Mark, there is documented proof of this actually happening!
Josh. |
AL Glover
Member
Username: aa55us
Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:49 pm: |
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Thank you so much Mark for the full explaination,as you can see where i got my curiosity question from (from the movie Goliath AWAITS)
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Josh,, sorry to bust your bubble, but i believe that the movie your referring to is JUST THAT a movie,Goliath Awaits,I have the movie also, & YES
thats why i asked in "curiousity" if it was possible that some may have survived like in that movie,
but i do BELIEVE in what was said in the cameron's titanic inside of the submersible when going down to the "SHIP"
1 pinhole leak and its ? sion nod ia,
as like what happened,(for those of us that remember the submarine "Thresher"-1963) when it at test depth,then exceeded her depth limit,
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Joshua, this is a movie. I've never heard of this happening in real life, at least not at the depth of the Titanic. Rest assured, no one who died on the Titanic survived the impact on the bottom. The way the ship broke up and flooded attests to this (and, yes, I have reason to believe this, and I have deductive evidence to back it up). Therefore, comparing 'Goliath' with Titanic is like comparing apples and oranges, sorry to say. Never use a movie synopsis to verify real-life events, even if those movies are based on some actual occurrence.
The only other exception would be a modern-day submarine. I don't believe that those which existed at the time of Titanic were solidly constructed enough to maintain life at that depth. Again: modern technology.
No problem, Al. I am glad that the info helped you. 
By the way, Joshua, I'm not trying to be crass, but please don't respond if you can't do it without sarcasm. Just a bit of friendly advice from an educated and professional elder.
Take care
--Mark
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Joshua Gulch
Member
Username: joshgulch
Post Number: 599
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
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Oh, I know it's a movie, and one of dubious quality at that. I also know that people don't fare well under great pressure. I didn't mean to sound sarcastic, just some light joking. No harm intended.
Josh. |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 1075
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:09 pm: |
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Oh, okay. I don't know you that well, so I didn't know for sure. The limited communicative capabilities posting provides (no tone of voice) makes intention even more uncertain. No offense taken.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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AL Glover
Member
Username: aa55us
Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:26 pm: |
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Thank u again Mark, that the only way to learn about Titanic,(or any other ship) is by asking questions, show how really fragile the human body is,all that steel has survived almost 100 yrs, 9not from time ship built) but from time it was first delivered to the ship yard is still standing & "holding her own but fighting a losing battle, & yet the a simple fragile tea cup or plate has survived all that crushing pressure,"take care ok, "
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
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Jeremy Lee
Member
Username: achynes
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 6:26 am: |
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>>yet the a simple fragile tea cup or plate has survived all that crushing pressure<<
Ceramic ware is one of the best survivors of a shipwreck! |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 11804
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 6:42 am: |
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Any air pockets inside the ship would have been compressed to non existance or to the point where any compartments with air pockets would have collapsed the deeper the ship went. Water however is not compressible so once a section was flooded solid, there would be no risk of implosion.
The catch here is that humans aren't fish and can't breath water. Not to be too blunt, but anyone still with the ship once it hit bottom would have been eaten by scavangers and/or subject to the normal processes of decomposition. The steel isn't subject to that sort of decay so even with iron eating bacteria and the corrisive effects of salt water will take centuries to disintigrate.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Arun Vajpey
Member
Username: zekenwolf
Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 6:28 pm: |
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I know that any air pockets within either section of the Titanic would have become compressed eventually to the point of non-existence as the ship sank into deeper waters.
My question is, IF there were large enough air pockets for a few people to become trapped in them while water overtopped them in the sinking Titanic, how long could they have lasted as the ship slipped under the surface and sank completely before increasing pressure caused an implosion? And could it depend on what part of the ship the trapping had occurred? Even if the ordeal lasted only a minute or two, it must have been a terrible experience. |
Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 349
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 7:00 pm: |
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A couple of hundred feet.
There is one account that says that that there were still have been people trapped in air pockets as the Wilhelm Gustloff went under. I read (and this is just one account, so I am NOT saying that this is a certainty) that as the ship was going under, the lights flashed on and swimmers saw people pounding on the portholes. Just one account, and I'm sure that the trapped people didn't last to the bottom. |
Arun Vajpey
Member
Username: zekenwolf
Post Number: 56
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 9:21 pm: |
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>>>>> A couple of hundred feet. <<<<<<
Only 200 feet? I am a scuba diver and have been up to 140 feet. If someone was trapped in a room with watertight (as measured at surface pressure, of course) walls/doors, would the room implode by the time the Titanic reached 200 feet? Or are you saying that the watertight doors would fail and the room get flooded? |
Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 350
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 10:45 pm: |
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I'm saying that I have a hard time believing that anything was airtight on the Titanic...at least airtight enough to withstand 2 miles of water.
Have you heard of a space that wasn't built to be airtight that was still unflooded after being submerged? These rooms weren't built to be airtight.
Something like the Kursk was built to keep water out and as far as I know there were air pockets with sailors in them (dead, of course).
But a wooden door was not going to withstand all of that water. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 26983
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 5:07 am: |
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Keep in mind that while there were watertight doors on the Titanic, the decks and by extension the overheads were not part of the watertight boundries. There were stairways, ladderwells, vents and cable ways through which water could percolate through.
None of the non-structural bulkheads were watertight either. In light of that, you don't need a watertight bulkhead or door to fail since it would have been essentially overtopped, and as the ship sank, overwhelmed.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Jim Currie
Member
Username: sailorjim
Post Number: 405
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 3:11 pm: |
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What about the crew of a submariners operating at depth? They don't seem to need to compress or de-compress during a a fast surfacing or crash-dive!
However the pressure on the specially constructed 'tin-can' round them will eventually fail due to pressure at greater depths than maximum design depth. |
Arun Vajpey
Member
Username: zekenwolf
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 3:23 pm: |
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In case of the Titanic, I am only wondering if ANYONE could have been still alive in the various air entrapped areas within the bowels of the ship as water overtopped the sinking ship. If they were, no doubt that they would have perished quickly one way or another as the Titanic sank further, but theoretically at least one or two might have survived for a minute or more? |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 27009
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 4:22 pm: |
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>>What about the crew of a submariners operating at depth? They don't seem to need to compress or de-compress during a a fast surfacing or crash-dive! <<
No, but the hull does to a certain degree. I've seen footage of one of the Ohio class boomers submerging and a clothes line stretched taut from one side of the compartment to the other going slack as the hull is compressed from the outside pressure. The reason the pressure inside the boat doesn't increase...much...is because the steel is sufficiently thick to and sealed up shut to prevent anything of the kind.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Arun Vajpey
Member
Username: zekenwolf
Post Number: 61
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 7:00 pm: |
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Is there any evidence as to when Boiler Rooms 3 & 2 flooded? They would have been sealed off by the watertight doors and probably remained dry even when the F & E decks above flooded, creating an "air pocket" situation. Could they have had some air till the Titanic started to break apart? BR3 especially was sufficiently forward of the break point to have some trapped air; could it have lasted for a minute or so as the Titanic sank? |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 27010
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 5:33 am: |
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>>They would have been sealed off by the watertight doors and probably remained dry even when the F & E decks above flooded, creating an "air pocket" situation.<<
I'm afraid they wouldn't, at least not for long. The decks themselves were not watertight. Any water getting into the passageways and spaces above would simply get in by cascading down any ladder and stairwells as quickly as the openings in the deck would allow.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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