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Message |
    
samuel garcia
Member
Username: miter
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 7:06 pm: | 
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In movie cal brings a child the the boat, where any children on boat a. |
Shane Worthy
Member
Username: shane_worthy
Post Number: 189
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 7:58 pm: |
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Samuel,
With Collapsible A being swamped, it will never be known with 100% accuracy who was on this boat, with people climbing on and falling off during the sinking. On the compiled list of whom was on Collapsible A, Mr. Richard Williams was the youngest onboard, at age 21.
Also keep in mind, the girl Cal picked up was later dumped into the water as the boat was swamped, flipping onto its side. I doubt she was able to swim back on...plus, when Cal accepted the flask from the stoker, no child was to be found near...
All Ahead Full!
Shane N. Worthy |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 11450
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 4:58 am: |
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Samuel, This Link is to the list of people *known* to have been in Collapsible A. As Shane pointed out, it'll never be known with 100% accuracy who was in that boat, but this it what's been established with the available evidence.
No children are listed there.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 890
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:02 am: |
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Err, actually, what happened to Steward Brown, who was reported by several sources (albeit secondary) to have jumped into Collapsible A as it floated off deck?
Another thing I found curious is the Lindell couple. They were in a life boat and their bodies were never recovered? Presumably, their bodies fell or were hoisted overboard during the early morning hours after Titanic sank. If the latter is possible, I can't help wondering why, then, Beattie's body and the bodies of the others weren't hoisted overboard as well to allow relief in weight (C. A was ankle-full with water, so any relief would have helped. If the Lindells were hoisted overboard, it would be reasonable to presume that at least someone in the boat was thinking along those terms despite the self-concern of all those aboard who were dealing with the cold and discomfort).
Finally, I've read that there were two other bodies with Beattie's - a stoker and a steward - yet they aren't listed.
In the end, as been said, there's no 100% guarantee as to whom or how many were in Collapsible A. Still, the considerations I mention here suggest that the list Michael provides is not a complete and is therefore an inaccurate list. I'm wondering if such an accurate and complete compilation regarding Collapsible A will ever be possible.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Lester Mitcham
Member
Username: lester
Post Number: 814
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:43 am: |
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From the Biography of Edvard Lindell:
"Once the ship went under Wennerström and Lindell climbed into the boat. Wennerström saw Mrs Lindell in the water and grabbed her hand. Weakened by the cold he was unable to assist her further and after a while she drifted away. ....." |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2005
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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We know that earlier in the night bodies had been hauled overboard to lighten collapsible A. But by the time the survivors were taken off they were at the limit of their endurance and most lacked the strength even to haul themselves off the boat without assistance. That could easily explain the presence of several bodies still on board at that time. |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 892
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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Yeah, I figured that, or else people, out of weakness, merely fell over the side. Still, it doesn't explain why some of these "bodies," as well as Steward Ed Brown, are not mentioned on the list presented by Michael above. I'm curious to have a better idea how many people were actually in Collapsible A. I have a feeling that it was significantly more than thirteen.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2006
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
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Certainly Brown was one of those eventually taken from collapsible A into Lowe's boat 14. I think most of us would want to add trimmer William McIntyre and 2nd Class passenger William Mellors. Some favour also 1st Class passenger Peter Daly. Lowe's estimate of the number taken off was about 20, but If I remember right most witnesses thought no more than 14 or 15.
As for the three bodies left aboard, one as we know was Beattie. The other two were not classed with certainty as crew members. I think it likely that one of them was 3rd Class passenger Arthur O'Keefe, who died with the Carpathia in sight. BTW, Mark, his demise was the inspiration for a scene in a different setting in ANTR which you may remember: "Leave me be". "Ah, come on now, brace up. It'll not be much longer." (Just an aside!)
. |
Ben Holme
Member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 636
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:37 pm: |
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Hi Mark,
As Lester pointed out, Mrs. Lindell never even made it to collapsibe A, whereas her husband, who did manage to secure a place in the swamped craft, died very shortly afterwards. As the boat became increasingly deluged with stuggling survivors, it is likely that Edvard Lindell's body was removed from the boat to allow room for the living.
Thomson Beattie and the two other victims garnered from the sea by the Oceanic may simply have expired later in the morning, and at a time when overcrowding had ceased to be a problem.
When 5th Officer Lowe discovered the swamped collapsible, something in the region of twelve or thirteen remained.
Best Regards,
Ben |
Iain Stuart Yardley
Member
Username: boz
Post Number: 839
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 9:33 am: |
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I read somewhere that the Peacock children were thought to have made it to "A" but were subsequently thrown into the sea when it became swamped. I'm sure I read it somewhere on this site.
Cheers,
Boz |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 896
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 9:46 am: |
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Boz,
Had the children been supposedly alive or dead when those heartless people tossed them into the sea? I'd like to hear more about that story, as well as to determine the source from which that author related the story.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Heartless people tossing kiddies into the ocean? I think rather that the term 'thrown into the sea' was used by Boz in the same sense as Beesley referred to people (not) being 'thrown out of bed' by the impact of the berg. Just a colourful turn of phrase used by creative writers like Beesley and Boz.
It's been suggested that the Peacock children were those carried by John Collins and a steward when all, sadly, were 'thrown into the sea' by that sudden plunge of the boat deck while on their way to collapsible A.
. |
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Username: hoppy
Post Number: 899
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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I'm a creative writer, too, Bob, so I understand and appreciate to use of words. The important thing even about creative writing is the careful use of language, lest a writer be totally misunderstood. Of course, as you say, there is more than one interpretation, of which I was aware. I speak tongue-in-cheek from time to time and have this unfortunate tendency of being taken too seriously or misunderstood myself. The beating that Collapsible A took that night - from the water, the sinking deck, and from those many frantic individuals who targeted it - leaves your explanation open as a very good (and obvious) possibility. Thanks for clarifying it.
Speaking of the Peacock children, I now do remember that story, although it has been quite a while since I read it and couldn't rightly remember it. Thanks for refreshing my memory.
By the way, did Steward Collins make it back into Collapsible A? That, unfortunately, is one thing I don't remember for certain. Actually, I think I saw his name presented on the list of thirteen provided at the link above, but I'm not sure if that was considered before or after the Peacock children were tossed overboard.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2010
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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John Collins, who was a dishwasher, never did make it to collapsible A, and was about to give up and head for the stern when the sea took him and he lost his hold on the child he had been carrying. But at that point his luck turned and he was one of the first to reach the upturned collapsible B. The child might have been one of the Peacocks, but that's just a possibility. |
Holly Peterson
Member
Username: alzbeta
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:21 am: |
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Hello, I read somewhere that Bessie and Loraine Allison were last seen struggling to get into some lifeboat, but were swept out by a great wave of water. Is this true? Plus, there were two children on Collapsible B - John Collins and Jack Thayer |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 4051
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 1:19 am: |
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Hallo, Holly, and welcome to the forum. Collins and Thayer were in their late teens and certainly wouldn't have been regarded as children, then or now. As you have a particular interest in children and young people, I think you'll find some useful material in this thread:
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5670/119611.html?1176960694 |
Holly Peterson
Member
Username: alzbeta
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 1:26 am: |
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Please, call me Alzbeta, not Holly, as that's my real name. Weren't Collins and Thayer both 17? They were still minors. Thanks for the link! |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 4052
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 1:38 am: |
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Ok, Alzbeta. But when responding to other posters we generally use the membership name rather than the username, so you might want to contact one of the moderators and make changes so that everybody uses the name you prefer.
Collins I think was 18. Yes, in the eyes of the law these two young men were still minors, but nevertheless they were men. In 1912 the term 'boy' generally referred to somebody under 16. The linked thread will tell you a lot more about these complications. |
Holly Peterson
Member
Username: alzbeta
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 2:17 am: |
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Sorry about the membership name/username confusion; I'll see about contacting the moderators. I'm just really new at this stuff and I hope I didn't confuse anyone. |
