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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 113
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | 
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This pair of leather children’s shoes is believed to be from Body No. 4, the “Unknown Child”. This very young boy, recovered by the crew of Mackay-Bennett, was buried at Fairview Lawn Cemetery in Halifax.
Oral History
Clarence Northover, a Halifax Police Department Sergeant in 1912, helped guard the bodies and belongings of the Titanic victims.
“Clothing was burned to stop souvenir hunters but he was too emotional when he saw the little pair of brown, leather shoes about fourteen centimeters long, and didn’t have the heart to burn them. When no relatives came to claim the shoes, he placed them in his desk drawer at the police station and there they remained for the next six years, until he retired in 1918.”
Excerpt from July 26, 2002 letter by Earle Northover, grandson of Clarence Northover.
Documentary Research
Research confirmed the role of the Halifax Police in guarding the bodies and belongings of the Titanic victims and Halifax Police Department records, along with City Directory records, confirm Clarence Northover was a Sergeant in 1912.
“... under the closest police supervision were nearly 200 little piles of clothing neatly tied up by the ship’s company on the Mackay-Bennett.”
Halifax Herald, Wednesday, May 1st 1912.
The Coroner’s Report
The coroner’s report for Body No. 4, a boy approximately 2 years old, the only baby recovered. The description includes a pair of “brown shoes”. It is important to note that there are no records of the recovery of loose clothing from the water which was not associated with bodies.
NO. 4. - MALE. - ESTIMATED AGE, 2. - HAIR, FAIR. CLOTHING - Grey coat with fur on collar and cuffs; brown serge frock; Brown Petticoat; flannel garment; pink woollen singlet; brown shoes and stockings.
Nova Scotia Archives and Records Management, RG 41 Vol.75
Footwear Research
Research shows that the style of the shoes are appropriate for the period, roughly 1900 - 1925, and are possibly English in manufacture.
Science
Chemical tests were made to look for traces of seawater and an electron scanning microscope was used to search for saltwater diatoms but the results were inconclusive.
Titanic Shoes Return To Halifax
Clarence Northover moved to Ontario when he retired as Deputy Chief in 1919. In 2002, his grandson Earle Northover decided the shoes belonged back in Halifax and donated them to the Museum.
Date made:
Circa 1910
Maker:
Unknown
Place Built:
Unknown, probably English
Type:
Infant's Slippers
Type of Construction:
Leather, machine stitched
Length:
14 centimetres
Width:
6 centimetres
Marks:
On the sole
of left shoe, printed in pencil: “SS TITANTIC VICTIM BOOTS WORN BY ONLY BABY DROWNED”
On the sole
of right shoe, in ink marker over pencil: “SS. TITANTIC SUNK?”
Acccession Number:
M2005.4.1 A,B
Gift of Earle and Sandra Northover
View Image
Just some info off the mma site. |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 234
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 5:50 pm: |
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Hildur,
You are absolutely correct in questioning the chain of evidence when it comes to the shoes. There is no way of connecting these shoes with any passenger off of the Titanic short of an oral history and pencil markings on those same shoes. Both are worthless since there was no single chain of evidence, unbroken, in which the shoes from the body of the Unknown Child were removed from the corpse, and carefully and properly preserved with the appropriate documentation.
The fact that the Unknown Child was described as two years old by the coroner means a lot to me. Here is a man with the unfortunate experience necessary during those times of high infant mortality to have accurately judged the age of a child in which development would still have been measured in months, not years. So, the coroners description had to be thrown out for the first DNA test to be accepted. And the flawed provenance of the shoes also had to be believed.
Basically, the body had to match the shoes for Mr. Ruffman's test to be accurate. But the shoes don't test positive for salt water exposure, meaning they cannot have come from the feet of the Unknown Child.
If the shoes are to be tossed out -- as they should, then that leaves Urho as the best possibility if the Unknown Child was of the Panula family. He was definitely the right age.
But, there are two DNA tests that should have been conducted -- and the second was done only after the results had been made known from the first, less accurate test. The first showed that genetically the child could have been either of the Goodwin family or the Panula family. This test, coupled with the erroneous assumption that the shoes were indeed from the Unknown Child, led Ruffman to conclude that the Unknown Child was Eino.
When the second round of DNA testing was conducted, it proved conclusively that the Unknown Child was not Eino and that it was Sidney. If the results of the first testing had been withheld until all of the DNA testing was done, then much if not all of the confusion and heartbreak of the mis-identity would have been avoided.
As it was, the Panula family was given a false sense of closure -- all because of a pair of shoes that were never exposed to salt water.
Tim Trower
www.titanicbranson.com
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 6:32 pm: |
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That is a good point, through much investigation, i am not a hundred percent sure Eino is the unknown child. As you said, the coroner would be expected(through experience) the way a child's body works through age, in death, and would be able to tell the difference between a two year old and an infant over and under 1. The crew of the Mackey-Bennet, would perhaps, not have such experience with small children. Having the crew (even with families) probably seeing children, every few months in age (due to being out at sea), rather than continueously, like the coroner.
Even if the child was one of the Panula's , which could it be.
Eino was 13 months old at date of death,
Urho was 10 days away from his 3rd birthday.
This i think, would more than likely help to exclude him, seeing as being born on 25 apr 1909, we are really looking at a three year old, and not a two year old.
I am in a bit of doubt, as to whether the unknown child could be Sidney Leslie Goodwin, 19 months, old, because the child found had Blonde hair, whereas Sidney had Brown hair, thus it seems to possibly exclude him, unless the crew of the Mackey-Bennett could have just counted Sidney's little bit of hair ( he's was only 19m, after all) as light brown, and wrote it down as Blonde, or could the possibility be, that the hair could have been any color, and simply bleached blonde/white from the sea or the sun?
I have heard of some survivors and victims hair, of any color, changing to white, because of various reasons such as shock, exposure, etc. Could we then be looking at the possibility of other children? And not Eino, Urho, Sidney or Eugene?
Also, today's 1 year old/2 year old, is larger in weight and height, than a child of the same age a hundred years age, so maybe we are really supposed to look in to another age group, which would have a lot of difference possibilities, would it not? I mean, with the maturity of the teeth, and the size of the shoes, i would put the child's age (and i have a few studies and people, to agree) at around 10-22 months, but who is to really say, that all the children grew the same way in height/weight?
I think going medically, we need to trace our knowledge back to 1912, and what the conditions and knowledge of man was, and not be so certain over things in today's world, because we can investigate further than in 1912. |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 236
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 7:44 pm: |
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I am still classed as a blond, although my hair has darkened over the years. As a child, it was a really light blond in the summer time, but would darken a bit in winter. Today, it is more brown, (with some grey at the temples!) but will still lighten up considerably when it is exposed to a great deal of sunlight.
Tim Trower
www.titanicbranson.com
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 12:15 am: |
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Well, i am Finnish and have Finnish hair. My hair is a white as paper or snow, no lie! In the winter, it gets a bit darker also, and in the summer it just stays the color, because it can't get lighter. But could it be a possibility that we may be looking at the wrong children, in the sense that the sun/waser/shock could have bleached the hair to white/blonde? |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 238
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:02 am: |
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Hildur,
All other things aside, the one constant that we will all be able to trust are both DNA tests, taken together. Things like hair colour and shoe size are subjective, but that last DNA test settles things permanently.
The biggest regret is that someone rushed the results of the first test out, and in doing so, falsely gave closure to the extended family of the Panula family, all lost on April 15, 1912.
Tim Trower
www.titanicbranson.com
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 123
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:37 pm: |
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Yeah, Magda Schleiffer (nee. Halopainen) was told as a story, which just became more realistic over the years, that Eino was buried as the unknown child. No one knows why, but i remember back in the early 90's hearing the story passed down. Everyone in the family, was so sure Eino was buried in Halifax. I don' know where they got the assumption, but when the first test was done, and proved a favour to Eino, it seemed to confirm and match the story. However, even though i learned this fact as a small child, i am now, in these days, some what less sure, that it is Eino, even though my family thinks it's certain. I am curious the exact results of the tests, and how exactly they are determining who to test and who to delete as a posibility. Do you know when the second test started, and what they are baseing it on? |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 330
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:43 pm: |
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Kudos to Andy Clarkson at Titanic-Titanic.com for finding an article in the Canadian Press about the mis-identification of the "Unknown Child". Alan Ruffman has admitted that he screwed up the DNA testing -- and says that he will say nothing more on the matter until a paper is published in a peer review publication.
http://tinyurl.com/2bufrh
[Moderator's note: This post was originally posted as a separate thread, but has been moved to the already pre-existing one addressing the same issue. JDT]
Tim Trower
www.titanicbranson.com
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 482
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 3, 2007 - 11:20 pm: |
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Hildur,
Just wondering if your family has been contacted with any details of the mis-identification of the Unknown Child ... news on that issue has been kind of quiet lately.
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 222
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 5, 2007 - 2:59 pm: |
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No, not really, which was why i was kinda angry at that. I read about it somewhere and had to break the news to my family, by myself. I want t o get in contact with Alan Ruffman for an apology for not informing my family over the recent news about the child.
My great-grandma, Lyyti(R.I.P) died last year and believed Eino was buried in Halifax, an it bothers me that she died believing something that is now not true.
Stuff happens though. I would like a sort of anouncement and i am sure alot of other people would too, about the mis-identification and re-identification of this little boy.
I think this thread is quiet now, because people don't think Eino or his family has anything to do with the child now, as he is Sidney Goodwin. |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 485
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 3:06 am: |
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Hildur,
In reality, Eino will always now be connected with the Unknown Child; and even though he is not buried in that tomb, the grave to me is representative of all of the children that died with the Titanic.
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
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George L. Lorton
Member
Username: retro_geo
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 7:17 am: |
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It would be nice if they gave you an apology Hildur for their mis-identification. An apology cost nothing after all. But that's Scientists for you. Their brains are all facts and figures with no thought of their fellow man. Seems to me is all they care about is their case study and making a name for themselves. Of course they might be worried that if they did apologize that you would sue them for mental suffering. Because then they would be admitting that they were at fault when they made a mistake on identification of the Unknown Child. So alas no apology means to the Scientists not having to admit that they were wrong.
Cordially,
George L. Lorton Esq.
"With Recollections of by gone happy days."
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 4:04 pm: |
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How correct you both are, you see, my family and I are not looking for fame or fortune in the form of suing. I would merely like an apology and acknowledgement on their part that people make mistakes, and the strength it takes to say sorry, makes all the difference. My family and I would really appreciate it, but scientists are indeed facts and figures.
It is bad that all over the world, the people who read the story of identifying Eino in 2002, will always believe it and not know the truth. The lack of publicity over the re-identity of Sidney had been hushed up. I wonder, just to throw it out there, that this may be on purpose so that the scientists may not be proven wrong yet again, (let us hope that never happens in this case), and so that we cannot sue them or cause issue through the works of broken hearts and publicity, which never go good together.
My family has never had thoughts of ruining any names. We understand that people make mistakes, and we hold no grudge or anger towards the scientists when we *read* about the misidentification. We would simply like an apology and a small public announcement identifying the mistake and the re-identification of Sidney. Nothing big or flashy, just so the truth is out there in the open for all to read.
I don’t exactly like having false information out there for Titanic enthusiasts with regards to this case. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15329
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 4:38 pm: |
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>>Their brains are all facts and figures with no thought of their fellow man.<<
I'd be very careful about making Broadly Sweeping generalizations like that. Scientists are people like anyone else and you have the same mix of the good, the bad, the pretty, the ugly, the caring, and the indifferent.
Perhaps it might be well to find out what Mr. Ruffman's side of the story is. There may be some good reasons why he's not discussing anything with the family. (Or not.)
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 5:01 pm: |
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To me, there is no excuse for him not to personlay tell us and apologize.
Men are men, and scientists are men, although sometimes i think they forget that there are people involved who can not accept facts and figures as apologies.
Yes, maybe they have there reasons, but this is my family history we are talking about that have just rearranged, and i would like an apology Simply as that. And i would like an apology in the memory of dear great-grandma, Lyyti who died believeing it was him. It's not too much to ask? Scientists are men after all, they should understand. I could imagine they would be all over this if it was the other way around. They would want the truth out, just like i do. This child may not be my family , but he is apart of my family history through Eino. I will always know this child's name and i want the rest of the world to know where he resides and to know that he is not Eino.
I would like an explanation from Mr. Ruffman about this mess. I am not angry at him, i would just like him to have the truth out. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15337
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 6:40 pm: |
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>>I would like an explanation from Mr. Ruffman about this mess.<<
I'm with you on that and I expect that a lot of people are.
My sole objection is to the statement that "Their brains are all facts and figures with no thought of their fellow man." in regards to scientists. I can cite way too many examples to show that this just ain't so.
The late Dr. Carl Sagan comes to mind as one prominant example of both a scientist and a humanist who cared a great deal about his fellow man, and he's not the only one. The people doing medical research also fall into the catagory as are the ones who are engaged in environmental research.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 239
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 7:18 pm: |
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Good points. |
George L. Lorton
Member
Username: retro_geo
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 1:22 am: |
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quote:To me, there is no excuse for him not to personally tell us and apologize.
No there isn't except that their probably afraid that you or your family would sue Hildur for damages called pain and emotional suffering. As long as they don't admit their mistake for starters people can start to forget about it and also that you and your family don't have confirmation from them that they made a mistake and hence have grounds for a lawsuit for emotional damages. They (The Scientists or Genealogists) might be afraid of a lawsuit or their Lawyers are. Comes across of as extremely callous to me.
Cordially,
George L. Lorton Esq.
"With Recollections of by gone happy days."
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 487
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 4:13 am: |
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George,
Certain people -- myself included -- are not going to let Ruffman off the hook. This will not be forgotten.
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15343
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 5:51 am: |
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>>Certain people -- myself included -- are not going to let Ruffman off the hook.<<
Tim, with all due respect, I doubt very much that Alan Ruffman is much concerned about whether or not any of us are willing to let him off the hook. Whether or not he should be is debatable, but it's not as if any of us have any legal standing to take him to court over the question.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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George L. Lorton
Member
Username: retro_geo
Post Number: 1040
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 8:00 am: |
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quote:Certain people -- myself included -- are not going to let Ruffman off the hook. This will not be forgotten.
I say more Power to you, Tim. An Apology costs nothing after all. As I said before the Scientists or Genealogists gave very callous treatment to the Panula Family and their relatives.
Cordially,
George L. Lorton Esq.
"With Recollections of by gone happy days."
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 488
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |
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I may not have the legal power to keep this alive, but the words and deeds of Alan Ruffman will be noted by future generations of researchers. Indeed, his future words and deeds may well bring a legal challenge from the Panula family -- which is why a public apology to them is so important. Surely Ruffman and Company cannot miss the import of this.
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
|
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 691
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 1:48 pm: |
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Yes, it has been quite a long time since a report was promised, hasn't it? Having read his initial published statement that some members of the Panula family did receive phone calls and apologies, I don't think the posts about calls for lawsuits are relevant and cause nothing but unnecessary conflict into what is already a sad story. Although I am disappointed to read that other branches such as Hildur's have not received an official apology as of yet. I would like to think that it would issued to all members that were involved in the project. I think that another Titanic family involved in a legal battle would be sad. But as Tim, said, actions will not be forgotten.
Sitting on stuff is called, 'squatty toad syndrome'.
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15351
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 - 3:05 pm: |
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>>I may not have the legal power to keep this alive,<<
You have the power of soapbox, much the same as the rest of us, and that may well have a power of it's own. However, if one goes to far, that sort of thing can boomerang.
>>...but the words and deeds of Alan Ruffman will be noted by future generations of researchers.<<
Who will in the end note that he made a mistake and ultimately 'fessed up to it.
Publicly.
That's all that scientific integrity requires.
Does he owe the Panula family an apology? I'm inclined to think he does, and I hope it's forthcoming, but that's between him and the Panulas.
>>Indeed, his future words and deeds may well bring a legal challenge from the Panula family<<
It may well do just that, but that's their call to make. In the end, we're specatators, not the movers and shakers.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 489
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 8, 2007 - 1:31 am: |
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"That's all that scientific integrity requires."
I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Scientific integrity requires that a sequence of tests are completely finished so that, in this case, the results once announced are correct the first time.
Scientific integrity requires that it be done right -- and that was not the case until the damage was done.
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
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Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15364
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, November 8, 2007 - 6:05 am: |
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>>I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.<<
That's your right. (Shrug)
>>Scientific integrity requires that a sequence of tests are completely finished so that, in this case, the results once announced are correct the first time.<<
Which in an ideal world would happen the first time, every time.
It doesn't.
Scientists are human too, and that means that they are subject to the same pressures as anybody else...including those who want the answers "Right NOW!"
I would hope that most if not all would resist such pressures but sadly, this wasn't the case. The good news is that the constant processes of testing, retesting, verification, and peer review means that sooner or later, the truth will come out and it did. When it did, they 'fessed up, and in a public forum.
While I do agree with you that the Panula Family is owed an apology, I'm not inclined to think that any of us have the juice to hold Mr. Ruffman's feet to the fire in the way that your initial post could be taken to mean. Bluntly, whomever he has to answer to, it ain't us.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 491
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 8, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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"Scientists are human too, and that means that they are subject to the same pressures as anybody else...including those who want the answers "Right NOW!""
Scientific integrity also means being able to say "No."
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
|
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15378
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, November 9, 2007 - 4:12 am: |
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>>Scientific integrity also means being able to say "No."<<
And I wouldn't quibble with that.
Unfortunately, that's not always easy to do when your getting pressure from all sides...not just the guys who are funding the whole thing...but the families as well, who understandably want to know whether or not their baby was brought to the shore.
Earlier you said "Certain people -- myself included -- are not going to let Ruffman off the hook. This will not be forgotten." and I ask in all curiousity...not out of malice, hostility or just to be obtuse...just what it is you intend to do about it? Hell, what can you do about it? All we have is the power of the soapbox, but that may be enough.
Whatever god or gods you believe in knows you and I don't always see eye to eye, but I may well find myself cheering you on.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 492
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 9, 2007 - 4:46 am: |
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I won't let him off the hook. This thread came alive because of my inquiry to Hildur -- and my post was written as much to see what, if anything had been said to the Panula family and to keep in the forefront the fact that Alan Ruffman and his team screwed up by releasing a premature identification.
No, I won't let him off the hook. I, like the other members of this message board, want to see the full report. Where is the explanation at, Mr. Ruffman?
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
|
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 15392
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, November 9, 2007 - 5:45 am: |
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>>Where is the explanation at, Mr. Ruffman?<<
That's certainly a fair question, although I would ask "Where's the apology to the Panula family?" to sweeten the pot.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 695
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 9, 2007 - 9:25 am: |
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I would think, rather than demanding answers on a message board, it would be time to take it to the next level. Contact newspapers, media outlets, see if they would carry the story. Posting and demanding here, does not accomplish anything. Of course, this is a viable thread and I am not advocating that people should not post, but those who seek the answers the most, why not take it to the level? As I said before, I am disappointed that we have not received answers from Ruffman and company as of yet. Even an update would be appreciated.
I will re-iterate, and maybe Hildur can confirm this, Ruffman posted in his initial article that he personally spoke to, and I believe apologized, to members of the Panula family. Now how big is this family? I don't know. Did he contact the members that participated in the testing? Did he apologize to the ones most easily accessible? What I am saying is that apparently, he did contact family members to tell them. I would like to think he is being honest about that. Of course, unless we get confirmation from other family members, we will not be 100% sure.
Sitting on stuff is called, 'squatty toad syndrome'.
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 246
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 4:20 pm: |
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I for one, do not recall any apology to my family. I did not take part in the initial DNA testing. My grandmother and my aunt took part in the test and i have not spoken to my grandmother in two years. Seeing as she took place in the testing, it may have been that she personally was apologized too. I however, have not been apologized to.
I would not like this to become so large and wide open. I would like an article put in to a newspaper or a brief press meeting on television, so that the entire world may know. That is what keeps bothering me. Is that most the people who know of Eino and the Unknown Child, believe it is him in that grave.
As for how large our family is, well there are three 'strands' of the family that i know of. They are all descendents of either Juha Panula and his siblings, or Maija's siblings. Juha Panula remarried in Finland and later had children in America; his brother also has children in America. Some of Juha's children are still living. Maija's sister had a family in Canada, but some returned to Finland, and there are not many in Canada anymore. The largest is obviously in Finland. I am doing a genealogy on my family and have found that all out as well as dragging Maija's family back to the late 1500's. |
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