| Author |
Message |
    
Jorge Pena (Jorge)
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 4:54 pm: | 
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I remember reading somewhere that John Thayer and Florence Cumings were brother and sister. This site does not say that. Is it true that they were even related? |
Jeffrey Kern (Jeffrey)
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 6:08 pm: |
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Yes, they were most definitely related. I do not know for certain how (although I, myself, thought brother and sister, but who knows? They might be first cousins). You can tell, for later on, when Mrs Astor was to host a dinner for the Captain of the Carpathia, Arthur Henry Rostron, both Mrs Marian Thayer and Mrs Florence Cumings arrived, as they were both the most prominent of women on board of the Titanic. I know they are definitely related, but as to where, I could not say. I hope this helps you. |
Michael Findlay (Mikef)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 6:50 pm: |
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Dear Jeffrey and Jorge,
John B. Thayer and Florence Thayer Cumings (later Swain) were not brother and sister, nor were they related.
I knew Thayer Cumings, Florence's son, for several years and asked him this question one time. He replied that there was absolutely no connection between his mother and the Thayers of Philadelphia. If there was a connection, it was extremely distant.
Thayer Cumings was also surprised when I told him that his mother was a guest of Mrs. Astor shortly after the disaster. Along with Mrs. Thayer, Mrs. Cumings attended a luncheon at the Astor mansion in honor of Captain Rostron. Thayer Cumings never knew about this. He believed that since his mother dreaded the very mention of the disaster, she never spoke of it to her family.
Hope this helps.
Michael Findlay |
Jeffrey Kern (Jeffrey)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 7:08 pm: |
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Thank you truly for letting us know of this. The connection seemed "obvious", and thankfully I now know the truth to this answer. Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year, Michael! |
Jorge Pena (Jorge)
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 1999 - 9:23 pm: |
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Thank you for your help Michael. |
Mark Bray
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2000 - 10:59 pm: |
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Can someone tell me more about Thayer Cumings? Living? Family?
Email Me: MARK125689@aol.com
Mark |
Nathan Heddle
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 3:04 am: |
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I was just wondering if Mrs John B. Cumings, born Florence Thayer, was the sister of Mr John B. Thayer. She was born in Mass. and he in PA., but they have the same name and seemed to be travelling together. Mrs Thayer and Mrs Cumings were both in Boat No 4, and after the sinking they both attended a dinner hosted by Mrs Astor.
It seems rather a coincidence if there was no relationship.
nathan |
Nathan Heddle
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 6:36 am: |
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OK so I have sort of answered my own question, but still need a little help.
John B. Thayer was the son of John B. Thayer and was therefore J. B. Thayer jr. Which of course makes Jack Thayer, John B. Thayer III, not infact jr., as he is often written as.
Obviousally this means Mrs J.B. Cumings and Mr J. B. Thayer can't be brother and sister as Mrs Cumings father was George A. Thayer but maybe they were cousins.
Surely they had to be related?
nathan |
Edmund Turner
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 9:52 am: |
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I've read elsewere that somebody thought that Jack Thayer and Florence Cummings were brother and sister this is incorrect,I think I'm right in saying that there was no relation between Florence Cummings and the John Borland Thayers but somebody else may be able to answer this question better than me
Ed |
Nathan Heddle
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:45 pm: |
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Thanks Ed,
Yeah I've had a look around since I posted that and it seems that they weren't closely related anyway. In JB's family tree there isn't a mention of a George A. Thayer, that I saw anyway.
It just seemed such a coincidence that she was friendly with the Thayers and then went to lunch after the tragedy with Mrs Astor and Mrs JB.
Oh well
nathan |
Michael Findlay
| | Posted on Friday, November 3, 2000 - 12:11 am: |
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Dear Nathan,
Thayer Cumings, the youngest son of John and Florence Cumings, told me that his family was of no relation to the John B. Thayer family of Philadelphia.
I hope this will help answer your question.
Michael Findlay |
Nathan Heddle
| | Posted on Friday, November 3, 2000 - 1:40 am: |
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Thanks Michael,
I'd sort of thought this already, but conformation is good.
nathan |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 492
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 3, 2007 - 6:10 am: |
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I thought we had a Cumings thread already, but I've searched pretty thoroughly and can't find one.
Anyway, here's a link to their son's obit in the NY Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE3DC1E39F932A15751C0A96F948260
And here's a link to a website about his summer home:
http://www.yorkharborinn.com/lodging/harborcliffshistory.htm |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 3501
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 3, 2007 - 2:55 pm: |
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There were a couple of threads, Brian, but they were very old ones and have been archived so no longer open for posting.
[Moderator's Note: The "couple of threads" referred to by Bob G. have now been merged into this one. MAB] |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 487
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:21 am: |
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Other than that she was present at Madeleine Astor's very select lunch for Captain Rostron after the disaster, I've hitherto known very little about the activities of Florence Cumings. It has been suggested that she was rather a 'homely' woman; certainly not a social dynamo like Eleanor Widener or Lucile Carter.
So I've been intrigued to discover that this somewhat shadowy lady harboured something of a passion - or, at least, at interest - in the stage. Certainly, the references to her in the Society columns of 'The New York Times' have her involved in 'theatrical' activities of one sort or another. In July, 1908, she was holidaying at the seaside resort of Monmouth Beach. Whilst in town, she got involved in the local amateur dramatic society and was listed as one of the patronesses of a charity double-bill at the Country Club Casino. Directed by Arthur W. Byron and acted by 'the young people of the area', the titles of the plays selected were 'My Lord in Livery' and 'The Village School Teacher'. The press (optimistically?) forecast a 'rare treat' for audience members.
Then, in December, 1910, the J. Bradley Cumings were both members of a party that Mrs Oswald Hering conducted to a revival of 'The Importance of Being Earnest', with supper at The Plaza afterwards. It is amusing to see that, the previous night, the rather elderly Sarah Bernhardt had performed as Marguerite in 'Camille' at The Globe - a part she had been pegging away at for all of forty years!
One wonders if Mrs Cumings was pleased to find Henry and Rene Harris as passengers aboard the 'Titanic' too. |
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 710
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:08 pm: |
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I gave Phil a picture of Mrs. Cumings. Hopefully he posts it soon.
Mike
Sitting on stuff is called, 'squatty toad syndrome'.
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Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 489
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:38 pm: |
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That would be extremely interesting, I should love to see it. Brian Ahern (where are you, Brian?!) has, I think, seen a picture of Mrs Cumings already and commented on another thread that she was rather more 'matronly' than he had expected. I gather that she was quite family-oriented: ten years after the 'Titanic' disaster, when she had remarried to become Mrs Chester O. Swain, 'The New York Times' has Florence hosting a lunch party for her son and his fiancee, Katherine Hurd, at her Madison Avenue home, prior to their wedding in June, 1922. |
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 711
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:18 pm: |
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View Image
Sitting on stuff is called, 'squatty toad syndrome'.
|
Ben Holme
Member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 702
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:51 pm: |
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Hi Martin and Mike,
There's also a Florence Cumings image on Findagrave.com. Looks like one of Phil G's.
Findagrave link
Best regards,
Ben
[Moderator's Note: Edted to reduce over-long url. MAB] |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 490
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:02 pm: |
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Wow, thank you for getting those images on-line so speedily! Actually, Mrs Cumings looks pretty much as I'd imagined she would. Not a dazzling beauty, by any means, but quietly distinguished in her way - certainly the face of a lady. I like her refined mouth and quizzical eyebrows!
Plus, judging by the costume, this photograph was taken circa 1925-30 (certainly a good decade after the 'Titanic' disaster) so she'd have looked much younger back in 1912. Besides, an experience like the one she went through is bound to take a toll...
Regards |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 555
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 6:59 pm: |
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Yes, I see from the signature on the first copy that her name had become Swain by the time this photo was taken, so it was some years after the Titanic. And she does look like she might once have been a beauty.
Martin, I'm surprised you unearthed so much about her in the Times index. I must not have typed in enough variations of her name, because my search a while back revealed little to nothing. I had, however, seen her name in at least one social register in later years (can't remember off the top of my head if it was The Blue Book or the more exclusive Social Register). |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 492
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 9:48 am: |
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In fact, it WAS quite hard to run her to earth - I had to try all manner of variations on her name before meeting with any success and, even then, the information I pulled up on-line was scanty. But I like Mrs Cumings in spite of that. Perhaps something to do with those eyebrows!
She was, I think, in the elite 'No. 4' crowd with Madeleine Astor, Eleanor Widener and Marian Thayer, which explains her presence at the Rostron lunch. I've been wondering if her acquaintance with the other widows began in the lifeboat and on the 'Carpathia' or whether their paths had crossed on the social scene before-hand. My impression, as I've typed elsewhere, is that she wasn't a 'Society' heavy-hitter like Lucile Carter but that she could still hold her own in very select company. A lady, in fact, in the truest sense of the word.
Incidentally, Brian, before Christmas, I added a potted biography of Mrs Carter to her biographical thread. I know that she has really piqued your interest in the past and would be fascinated to know your thoughts on this glamorous but seemingly difficult woman. |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:04 am: |
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Martin
>One wonders if Mrs Cumings was pleased to find Henry and
>Rene Harris as passengers aboard the 'Titanic' too.
Not only that, they were next door to each other! (Sans bathroom.) Coincidence?
Daniel.
Daniel Klistorner
co-author TITANIC The Ship Magnificent
http://titanic-theshipmagnificent.com/
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Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 497
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:27 am: |
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Fascinating, Daniel, I had no idea that the two couples were neighbours aboard the 'Titanic'. Thanks! |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
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Martin
You're welcome. The Harrises were in C 83 and the Cumings in C 85. Between the two rooms were the adjoining bathrooms.
Daniel.
Daniel Klistorner
co-author TITANIC The Ship Magnificent
http://titanic-theshipmagnificent.com/
|
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 498
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:19 pm: |
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...which they shared? Or did only one couple have access to it? |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 2:54 pm: |
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There were two bathrooms, one for each cabin. Here's a plan:
Regards,
Daniel.
Daniel Klistorner
co-author TITANIC The Ship Magnificent
http://titanic-theshipmagnificent.com/
|
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 591
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 10:35 am: |
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As far as I'm aware, the really splendid joint account of first-class sisters Martha Stephenson and Elizabeth Eustis is the only one to make direct reference to Florence Cumings. They clearly shared at least a passing acquaintance aboard the 'Titanic', as the ladies recognised one another in Lifeboat No. 4, and they contribute the fascinating titbit that one of the crewmen they pulled out of the water in the immediate aftermath of the sinking was, by coincidence, Mrs Cumings' bedroom steward. I was also interested to discover that Florence pulled on an oar with Marian Thayer and that, once aboard the 'Carpathia', Elizabeth and Martha shared a cabin with both her and Madeleine Astor's maid, Rosalie Bidois. |
