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Message |
    
Delia Mahoney
Member
Username: delia
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 6:45 pm: | 
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Miss Virginia Ethel Emanuel,5 , probably born in USA, was Opera singer Estelle Emanuele's daughter. Estelle's father, Samuel Weill was American, from New York, wasn't he?
It's strange for me little Virginia travelled without any relative, only with Miss Dowdell. ET claim: "her step-father had deserted her and her mother". Who was Virginia's father? Did he live in 1912?
In Jersey Journal I read that Miss Dowdell was called Virginia's mother. Why?
Virginia later married Mr. Hansen. Does anybody know something about him?
Please help me! |
Delia Mahoney
Member
Username: delia
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 3:45 pm: |
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Does anyone know something about her life after sinking? When she died? Where I can find any info?
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Brian J. Ticehurst
Member
Username: briantice
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 9:16 am: |
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Delia,
Morning - Here is all I have on poor little Virginia:
EMANUEL, MISS ETHEL VIRGINIA. (Child). Saved in Lifeboat number 13. Home address: c/o Miss Martin, Savoy Hotel, London, UK. Going to her grandparents in New York City. She had been deserted by her step-father. Being looked after by Miss Elizabeth Dowdell.
Insurance claim number B158. Property: $547.75 claim filed by her grandfather Samuel J. Weill.
Her parents were actors and could not spare the time to look after her so they sent her to her grandparents.
(From The Emergency and Relief booklet by the American Red Cross, 1913).
No. 135. (American). Girl, 6 years old, deserted by step-father, was saved by her nurse, on trip to her grandparents in New York. Needed new supply of clothing. ($100).
Miss Virginia Ethel Emmanuel, 5, boarded the Titanic at Southampton with her Nurse Miss Elizabeth Dowdell who was escorting her to her grandparents home in New York, NY. Her step-father had deserted her and her mother who was, according the New York American, the Opera singer Estelle Emanuele
An insurance claim (number B158) for property worth $547.75 was filed by her grandfather Samuel J. Weill.
I hope that it helps?
Best regards Brian J. Ticehurst Southampton UK.
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Emma Richardson
Member
Username: emy
Post Number: 95
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 10:57 am: |
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Hi Delia
The 1901 census online for the UK lists a 38 year old Samuel Weill ( Germany united states subject) living in Hornsey in Middlesex. It says he is "a manager...supplies." Maybe this is your man?
Emma |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 985
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 12:05 pm: |
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Delia, Ethel's mother was probably under contract to complete an engagement or series of engagements in England, and intended to return to New York a few months later. The reason usually stated for Ethel's early return is that her mother was not able to look after her due to work commitments, but bearing in mind that the child had a fulltime nursemaid I suspect the move was due rather to the sudden change in Estelle's financial circumstances, and that Miss Dowdell's employment would have been terminated after the child was delivered to her grandparents in New York. Ethel died in 1972.
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Delia Mahoney
Member
Username: delia
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 3:31 pm: |
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Hi all!
I'd like thank for your replies. Bob, do you think that young Miss Emanuel was called Ethel, not Virginia?
Is any child of her still alive? I read in other thread in ET that she died as Vera Hansen. Why did she change her first name?
I think Estelle Emanuel had probably serious financial problems (because her daughter traveled third class).
Did Virginia whenever discuss about Titanic?
All the best,
Delia |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 986
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 5:11 pm: |
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Miss Emanuel's name certainly is confusing. Newspaper interviews in 1912 had the nurse referring to her charge variously as Ethel or Virginia. One journalist described her as Miss Dowdell's daughter and called her Esther! Amy Stanley, who shared the same cabin, referred to her as Elizabeth, which was in fact the nurse's name. Her grandparents, when interviewed in New York, called her Virginia.
I believe her given name was Ethel Virginia, but informally her middle name was preferred. In formal documents, like the passenger list, she is Ethel. As for 'Vera', well maybe the poor kid was so confused by then she settled the issue by coming up with a name of her own choice!
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Matt Endacott
Member
Username: m_endacott
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 2:18 am: |
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Does anyone know if Ethel had any memories of the sinking and if so what did they do that night and during the voyage?
Im gathering info for a possible book and am looking for the un-told stories from Titanic. Im aware their lifeboat was almost crushed by that carrying 5yr old Lillian Asplund (no. 15) but is there any other memories from the voyage. Eg. strolls on the deck, where she ate (were 3rd class kids allowed in the 3rd class dining room??) and also did Miss Dowdell die?
Thanks,
Matt. |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 991
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 12:15 pm: |
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Matt, Ethel/Virginia didn't have much to say about the Titanic, but Elizabeth Dowdell certainly did - see her bio on ET for a collection of long newspaper interviews. Unfortunately either Elizabeth or the journalists were clearly very inventive, so the information contained therein is not very reliable. She did survive the sinking, of course, and died in New York in 1962.
Certainly the children ate in the main dining rooms. In First Class, children were segregated from the adults at meal times (as was customary at that level of society), but in Third Class I should think the families ate together, as they did at home.
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Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 823
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 2, 2003 - 11:28 pm: |
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Unfortunately either Elizabeth or the journalists were clearly very inventive
My guess, Bob, is that it was Ms. Dowdell. The two papers from which I transcribed those articles---The Jersey Journal and the Hudson Observer---were staunch competitors in those days and the two articles are for the most part word for word identical. I've done a lot of local history research with these two papers over the years and I've never seen another instance of this. My bet is that she prepared a statement and then gave it to reporters who came to call. One of these days I need to check some of the New York City papers to see what, if anything, they reported on Ms. Dowdell in the immediate aftermath of the sinking; if/when I get around to it, I'll report back.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 998
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
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Thanks, Mark. That does seem likely, though I suspect a certain amount of journalistic assistance in the preparation of the statement. I have a particular interest in boat 13, and Miss Dowdell's very colourful account might contain some promising leads if the facts could be filtered from the fiction. Not easy, of course, at this distance! |
Grant Woollacott
Member
Username: spirit3333
Post Number: 184
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 3:01 pm: |
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Dose anyone have a source for the information that she died as Vera Hansen?
Thanks.
Bless the poor Allisons
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Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 321
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 10:02 pm: |
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I believe i have a photo (possibly) of Ethel/Virginia Emanuel and that she was possibly the young girl in a photo taken of third class survivors aboard Carpathia. The girl is the photo is said to be Luise Kink-Heilmann, but i really doubt that. I do believe it is the Emanuel girl based on her size and American style clothing (the girl's dress appears to be English/Americn style and not European.) I found several problems with identities in the at pic. |
Holly Peterson
Member
Username: alzbeta
Post Number: 250
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 2:42 am: |
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Sorry Hildur, but I've seen two pictures of Louise Kink around the time of the Carpathia and she looks exactly like the girl in the third class survivor photo. I hate to disappoint you, but the girl in the pic is definitely Luise. |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 323
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 5:05 pm: |
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Oh, okay, i just had it in my head that she was Ethel/Virginia. Could it be possible for you to send me the pic of Luise? I only have a photo of her taken many years later. |
Holly Peterson
Member
Username: alzbeta
Post Number: 253
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:38 pm: |
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Hildur,
On another thread about Titanic children in which you and I discussed pictures, I asked if you would like me to send you some of the pictures that you stated you did not have. I would be more than happy to send you some pictures of Louise, as well as some others that were on your list of not having pictures of. |
Hildur Panula-Heinonen
Member
Username: titanic_relatives
Post Number: 328
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:22 pm: |
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Great, send away I already responded on the other thread. |
