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Leigh Anthony Ross
Member
Username: leigh_a_ross
Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:47 am: | 
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I have a few questions about the three Lamson sisters, Mrs. Charlotte Appleton, Mrs. Caroline Brown and Mrs. Malvina Cornell, that travelled on the Titanic;
1) Does anyone have any info on their parents, Charles Lamson and Elizabeth Marshall? Or any other members of the family (Not the Drummonds, as I have a lot of info on them)?
2) Does anyone know if or how Miss Edith Corse Evans is related to them?
3) Does anyone know when and where Edward and Charlotte got married?
I think that's it for now. Thanks to anyone you can help |
Jeffrey M. Kern
Member
Username: jeffk
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 8:38 am: |
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Leigh,
I think Edith Evans was related to Malvina Lamson Cornell, the latter being an aunt by marriage in some way. This information comes from Judith B. Geller's tribute to Edith Evans in her book, Titanic: Women and Children First. Miss Edith was very much an aficionado of genealogical studies, being a member (along with her mother, Angeline Burr Corse Evans, and her sister, Lena) of the Colonial Dames of America, a society whose membership extended only to women who could trace their roots back to New England's earliest days.
I hope this little tidbit helps you in your studies. |
Brian J. Ticehurst
Member
Username: briantice
Post Number: 131
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |
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Leigh - in the following article it says they were her aunts - I hope it helps - Best regards Brian
(From The Bristol Times and Mirror, April 27th, 1912).
GRAPHIC STORIES OF HEROISM
The New York correspondent of the ''Daily Telegraph'' cables a special and graphic message regarding the heroism of some of the women in the wreck. According to this source of information: The heroism of Edith Evans, who gave up her own life that another might be saved, stand out conspicuously. Miss Evans was nearly 30 years old, and, independently well-to-do, she spent much of her time in travel. She was a passenger on the Titanic, travelling with her aunts, Mrs. Cornell, Mrs. Appleton, and Mrs. Brown. The signal came for
the women and children to go, and Mrs. Cornell and Mrs. Appleton secured seats in one of the lifeboats. Mrs. Morgan and Miss Evans sought another. It was one of the last boats to go. They found places, but as the boat was about to be lowered it was seen to be overcrowded. one person would have to get out, Miss Evans arose, although her aunt put out a restraining hand, announcing she would go. ''I must be the one to go,'' declared the young woman. ''You stay: you have children at home, I have nobody,'' She jumped out and the lifeboat was lowered. That was the last seen of her. Mrs. Brown thereafter showed a spirit which made her volunteer to leave the boat. There were only three men in the boat, and but one of them could row. Mrs. Brown, who was reared on the water, immediately picked up the heavy sweeps and began to pull. In the boat, which carried Mrs. Cornell and Mrs. Appleton, there were places for seventeen more than were carried. This boat, too, was undermanned, and two of the ladies at once took their places at the oars. |
Brian J. Ticehurst
Member
Username: briantice
Post Number: 132
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:44 pm: |
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Leigh - I also found the answer to your 3. The year not the actual date:
In 1894, Charlotte married Edward Dale Appleton, a noted New England book publisher from Massachusetts. The couple lived in New York City, and later in nearby Bayside, New York (located in a section of what is now known as Queens, New York today). The Appletons had no children.
Cheers Brian
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Brian J. Ticehurst
Member
Username: briantice
Post Number: 133
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
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Leigh answer to your question 1 is just this little bit:
Mrs. Edward Dale Appleton (Charlotte Lamson) was born in New York City in December, 1858 (although there were several dates reported for her birth), and was the daughter of Charles Lamson and Elizabeth Robertson Marshall. Her father, who was a former dry goods importer later became the senior partner of the shipping house of Charles H. Marshall & Co., the proprietors of the noted Black Ball Line of Liverpool packet-ships.
Cheers Brian
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mary mason
Member
Username: mary
Post Number: 87
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:59 pm: |
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Leigh,
i've done some work on the lamson family, i also found how Edith Evans is related to them, if you cant understand this family history list. please let me know and i'll explain it to you. a number denotes the generation and a "+" denotes a marriage.
Lamson:
1 William LAMBSON b1620 ipswich, essex, england, d - 1 dec 1659 ipswich, essex massachusetts married, 1640
+ Sarah AYRES b 1620-25 ipswich essex mass. d 1692 dedham, essex co, mass. dau of John AYRES and Hannah EVERED
2. John LAMSON b 1642 ipswich, essex mass d 1716/17 Topsfield essex co, mass
2. Sarah LAMSON b 1645 Malford, Worcester, Eng d 4 oct 1683 reading, mddsx, mass.
2. Samuel LAMSON b 1649 ipswich, essex, mass. d 7 october 1692 reading, middsx, mass.
+ Mary NICHOLS b 25 nov 1662 reading, mass. d 1 dec 1717 dau of Richard and Ann NICHOLS
3. Sarah LAMSON b 29 0ct 1689 reading, mass. died 3 jan 1733 mass.
3. Ebenezer LAMSON b 11 mar 1679/80 reading, mass. d 18 jun 1681 reading, mass
3. Ebenezer LAMSON b 15 March 1685 reading, mass. d 17 feb 1740 reading mass.
3. Samuel LAMSON 3 May 1677 reading, mass d 17 feb 1740 reading, mass.
3. William LAMSON 13 Jun 1681 reading, mass d 17 jun 1681 reading, mass.
3 Mary LAMSON b 20 Jun 1678 reading, mass.
3 John LAMSON b 12 aug 1686 reading, mass. d 24 Jan 1757 Weston, Middlesex Ma
+ Sarah RAND b 19 jul 1696 charlestown, suffolk, mass. d 24 Jan 1757 dau od John RAND and Methitable CALL
4 Elizabeth LAMSON b 7 oct 1727 weston, suffolk, mass
4 Mary LAMSON 11 May 1731 weston, suffolk, mass.
4* Samuel LAMSON b 19 sept 1736 weston, mass. d 17 Jul 1795
+ Elizabeth BALL 22 May 1742 Waltham, mddsx, mass. dau of John BALL and Mary BENJAMIN
5 Elijah LAMSON b 13 Jan 1780 Weston, mddsx, Mass.
5 Samuel LAMSON b 14 Jan 1763 Weston, Middsx, mass
5 Anne LAMSON b 2 Oct 1775 westo, mddsx, mass
5.Sarah LAMSON b 10 oct 1760 weston, mddsx, mass.
5. Elizabeth LAMSON b 9 feb 1765 weston, mddsx, mass
5 . Isaac LAMSON b 7 jul 1765 weston, mddsx, mass.
5. Lydia Lamson b 22 Jul 1771 weston, mddsx, mass.
4 Sarah LAMSON 29 nov 1721 weston, mddsx, mass.
4 John LAMSON 20 dec 1724 weston, mass. d 25 Jan 1785
3 Joanna LAMSON b 16 aug 1682 reading, mass.
3 Elizabeth LAMSON b 30 sept 1691 reading, essex, mass.
2. Phebe LAMBSON b 1651/52 ipswich essex mass. d 1692 dedham, essex, mass
2. Mary LAMSON b 1653 ipswich essex, Mass. d 5 april 1718 dedham, norfolk, mass.
2. Hannah LAMSON 1654/55 ipswich essex, mass. d 4 oct 1683 reading, mddsx, mass
2. Nathaniel LAMSON b 1656 ipswich, essex, mass. d 27 aug 1722 mass.
2. Joseph LAMSON b oct 1658 ipswich essex mass. d 27 aug 1712 charlton, suffolk mass.
+ Elizabeth SANDERSON (second wife of *Samuel LAMSON)
5 Clarissa LAMSON b 21 sep 1788 weston, mddsx, mass.
5 John LAMSON b 17 Jun 1791 weston, mddsx, mass.
+ Elizabeth Turner KENDALL dau of Hugh Rogers KENDALL and Mary COLE
6 Charles LAMSON b 5 jun 1815
+ Elizabeth Robertson MARSHALL b 24 dec 1824 d 28 aug 1890 dau of Charles MARSHALL and Fidelia MILLMORE
7. Fidelia Marshall LAMSON b 27 jan 1848 Paris, france
+ Richard HOFFMAN
7. Elizabeth Marshall LAMSON b 12 jan 1849 New York
+ Sir Victor Arthur Wellington DRUMMOND
7. Charles Marshall LAMSON b 30 sept 1850, New York
7. Katherine W. LAMSON b 8 jul 1851
7. Caroline Lane LAMSON b 8 Jul 1852
+ John Murray BROWN
7. Charlotte L LAMSON b 5 jul 1853
+ Edward dale APPLETON
7. Malvina Helen LMSON b 10 dec 1856
+ Robert C. CORNELL
7. John LAMSON 6 jan 1858
7. unknown LAMSON (died young??)
6 Caroline E LAMSON b 1816
6 John LAMSON b5 jun 1821
6 Daniel Sanderson LAMSON b 2 jun 1828
5 Daniel Lamson b 1 dec 1793, weston middsx, mass.
CORNELL
1Comfort CORNELL 1750
+ Elizabeth EMBREE 1752
2 Robert Comfort Cornell b 1774
+ Amy LOVETT
3 George James Cornell b 1807
+ Caroline Elliot
4 Amy CORNELL b 1847
4 Edith Cornell b 1840
4 Robert Cliffors CORNELL b 28 march 1853
+ Malvina Helen LAMSON
3 James Lovett CORNELL b 1810
3 Robert cornell b 1816
3 Robert CORNELL b 1810
2 Abigail Cornell b 1776
+ Israel CORSE b ?
3 Israel CORSE b 18 jun 1811
3 Robert corse b 19 april 1814
3 Mary Louise CORSE b 1816
3 Israel CORSE b 1819 d 13 jul 1885
+Catherine KETCHAM
4Angelina Burr CORSE 1847
+ Cadwalader EVANS b 1847 Philedelphia PA
5. Lena EVANS b1873
5. Edith Corse EVANS b1875
4Israel CORSE b 1849
4Mary Abigail CORSE b 1851
4 Katherine Ketchum CORSE b1853
4 Margaret Kethcum CORSE b1855
3 Alice CORNELL b 1779
EVANS
1. Cadawalader EVANS
+ Harriet Verene MUSSER
2. Julianna Dodderidge EVANS b 1802 philadelphia, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. Margaret Eleanor EVANS b 1804 philadelphia, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. John Glendower EVANS b 1806 philadelphia, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. Rowland Edanis EVANS b 1808 philadelphia, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. Cadwalader EVANS b 1810
2. Dr. Cadwalader EVANS b 1812 lower miriam, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. William Elbert EVANS b 1816 lower miriam, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. Harriet Verena EVANS b 1818 lower miriam, philadelphia, pennsylvania
2. Manlius Glendower EVANS b 1821 lower miriam, philadelphia, pennsylvania
+ Ellen KUHR
3. Cadwalader EVANS b 1847 Philedelphia PA
+ Angelina Burr CORSE b 1847dau of Israel CORSE and Catherine KETCHAM
4. Lena EVANS b1873
4. Edith Corse EVANS b1875
3. Ellen Lyle EVANS b 1850
3. Rosalie EVANS b 1855
3. Hartman EVANS b 1860
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Leigh Anthony Ross
Member
Username: leigh_a_ross
Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:43 am: |
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Thank-you all so much Jeffrey, Brian and Mary. You have helped me greatly. Mary do you have a family tree for the Lamson family? As that is what I am attempting to create |
Kyrila Scully
Member
Username: childstar413
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:56 am: |
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Leigh, those were family trees that Mary provided you. The numbers given represent the generation. #1 would be the first name on the tree, #2 follows #1, etc. Names descend from #1.
Kyrila
"Now, bring me that horizon!"
www.titanicimpact.org
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Leigh Anthony Ross
Member
Username: leigh_a_ross
Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 3:27 am: |
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Kyrila, yes I know that they were family trees of the three sisters that were aboard the Titanic but there were more children of Charles and Elizabeth and I was wondering if Mary had a complete family tree of the entire Lamson family.
Regards Leigh |
Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 5:35 am: |
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Charlotte Lamson and Edward Appleton were married in the Church of the Heavenly Rest in Manhattan on 12 December 1894. Source: The New York Times, 13 December 1894.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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David Huffaker
Member
Username: davidh
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 3:12 pm: |
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I have nine children born to Charles Lamson and Elizabeth Robertson Marshall - the other six:
1. Fidelia Marshall Lamson 27 Jan 1848 - Paris, France
2. Elizabeth Marshall Lamson 12 Jan 1849 NYC md to Victor Arthur Wellington Drummond
3. Charles Marshall Lamson
30 sep 1850 NYC
4. Kathrine W. Lamson 5 Jul 1851 NYC md. Pedro de Florez
5. Caroline Lane Lamson
6. Malvina Helen Lamson
7. John Lamson 6 Jan 1858 NYC
8. Charlotte Lane Lamson
9. Frances Amelia Lamson 30 Sep 1861 NYC
md Charles Guthrie.
I have seen a couple of different birth dates but these seem to be backed up by the census records.
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Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 1065
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 3:52 pm: |
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The New York Times' report of the Appleton-Lamson wedding now appears here.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 399
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:48 pm: |
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In the hope that it may be of assistance to any present or future board members with a particular interest in the Lamson sisters, I would like to point out that Mike Ellingham, Brian Ahern and I have, over the past two months, swapped a considerable amount of Lamson family history on the 'Gilded Age' thread, under the sub-heading 'Rich People in Society'. There are too many individual posts to cut and paste onto this biographical link, where they perhaps rightly belong, but the information can still be readily accessed at the click of a mouse! |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 564
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 9:32 am: |
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Colonel Archibald Gracie proffered his services during the voyage to the bereaved Lamson sisters, Mrs Edward D. Appleton, Mrs Robert C. Cornell and Mrs J. Murray Brown. As a boy, Gracie had attended St. Paul's (the American Eton) with Mrs Cornell's husband and, being an indefatigable net-worker, he didn't hesitate to re-open the acquaintance aboard the 'Titanic'.
As David Huffaker, Brian Ahern and Mike Ellingham have explored at some length, both here and elsewhere, the Lamson sisters were securely, if discreetly, placed in the upper echelons of New York Society. In addition, and in common with many other first-class passengers, they also maintained family connections with the European elite. In the case of Mrs Brown, Mrs Appleton and Mrs Cornell, their sister, Elizabeth Marshall Lamson, had married Victor Arthur Wellington Drummond, an English diplomat, whom she had met whilst he was posted as Secretary to the British Legation in Washington. Their wedding, according to 'The New York Times' of 16 April, 1882, was 'crowded with the fashionable people of New York' (including Caroline Astor, the Stuyvesant Fishes and the Cornelius Vanderbilts) and her younger sisters Katherine and Charlotte - the latter of whom would become Mrs Edward Appleton - acted as bridesmaids. Lord Cadogan's son, Henry, was best man. The groom hailed from a wealthy dynasty of English bankers, who had established Drummond's of Charing Cross, and who oversaw the finances of many members of the aristocracy. Their success in business was no doubt aided by the fact that Victor's mother was Lady Elizabeth Frederica Manners, a daughter of the 5th Duke of Rutland. Connections with the ducal family were kept up into the next generation - the 1871 Census had Victor's brother (Elizabeth Lamson's future brother-in-law) Cecil staying at the Rutland family seat, Belvoir Castle in Leicestershire, together with a very select house-party, which included the Duchess of Cambridge, Prince and Princess Francis of Teck (Queen Mary's parents), the Duke and Duchess of St Albans and no less than four sets of earls and countesses: Shrewsbury, Ferres, Rosslyn and Wharncliffe. In addition, Victor's sister married the 9th Earl of Scarborough, making the 10th Earl Elizabeth's nephew by marriage.
During a prestigious diplomatic career on the Continent (most helpfully out-lined by Mike Ellingham on the 'Rich People in Society' thread), Victor was knighted, becoming Sir Victor and his wife Lady Drummond. He died around 1908 - oddly, Peerage.com, the most comprehensive website of English aristocratic genealogy, does not list Sir Victor as Cecil Drummond's brother but he undoubtedly was. Following her husband's death, the widowed Lady Drummond moved from Munich to Paris, where she resided on the Avenue Victor Hugo. She was not to live much longer herself - in late March, 1912, she died in France, with Charlotte Appleton, Caroline Brown and Katherine de Florez (the latter herself based in Paris) at her side. Sadly, Malvina Cornell was still en route from the States and so did not arrive in time to say a final farewell to her older sister. Lady Drummond's funeral took place at the family seat, Cadlands, in Hampshire, and the three Lamson sisters subsequently made the short journey from there to Southampton, where they boarded the 'Titanic' for the journey home... |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 566
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 4:47 pm: |
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Another of the Lamson sisters - the youngest, Frances - also had an interesting career. Six or seven years after the death of her first husband, Frederick Lehmann, she was remarried to Pittsburgh steel magnate Charles S. Guthrie. The wedding took place in October 1900 at the home of her sister, Malvina - her brother-in-law, Judge Robert C. Cornell, gave her away. The congregation was small, composed primarily of close friends and family, and the bride wore a subdued but tasteful ensemble of pale mauve crepe-de-chine with trimmings of yellow lace, a matching hat of velvet and tulle, and discreet pearl jewellery. According to the Society columns, the union between Guthrie and Mrs Lehmann had been the subject of rumour for some time; he had been a business associate of the late Mr Lehmann, whilst she had made an independent living as a successful house furnisher and decorator. Sadly, the marriage was not to last long: by 1906, Frances - aged only forty-five - had been widowed for a second time, and by the spring of 1911, she was living in Paris, close to her sisters, Elizabeth Drummond and Katherine de Florez. It was here, in her house on the rue de l'Universitie, that she hosted a glittering 'musicale', attended by (among others) Lady Drummond, Mrs Stanford White (J. Clinch Smith's sister), Ambassador Bacon (who cancelled his passage on the 'Titanic' at the last minute), Mrs Marshall Field and Mrs Harry Payne Whitney. However, despite spending a considerable amount of time on the Continent, Frances kept up a country house in the States, Meadow Court, overlooking Long Island Sound. Embowered by flowers, and set in landscaped grounds designed by architect Frederick Olmstead, the mansion (built in 1902) was in the Mediterranean style and provided a fitting venue for weekend parties and dances. Indeed, in 1912, 'American Homes and Gardens' magazine stated that:
“There are few homes in America more attractively situated than the property of Mrs. Charles S. Guthrie, in New London, CT. This is the embodiment of the ideas of what a house should be.”
Presumably, Meadow Court would have been visited regularly by Mrs Appleton, Mrs Cornell and Mrs Brown, as it stayed in Mrs Guthrie's possession until 1925. It was subsequently converted to a hotel, the Lighthouse Inn, which it remains to this day. |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 683
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 9, 2009 - 11:29 am: |
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On the biographical thread devoted to Marian Thayer, I recently supplied a link to the collection of the New York Historical Society. I've today discovered that the same collection houses a portrait miniature by Fernand Paillet, dated circa 1885, of Lady Drummond, the Lamson sister who died in the spring of 1912. Charlotte Appleton, Malvina Cornell and Caroline Brown were returning from her funeral in England aboard the Titanic.
http://emuseum.nyhistory.org/code/emuseum.asp
You'll need to type the word 'Lamson' into the search engine to pull up the image of her. In doing so, you'll also find a bust of Lady Drummond's elder sister, Fidelia Lamson Hoffman, which was modelled by her daughter, the famous sculptress, Malvina Hoffman. There was evidently a strong family resemblance between all the Lamson siblings.
Lastly, here's a link to the website of the Lighthouse Inn in Connecticut, which was once the elegant country house, 'Meadow Court', of yet another Lamson sister, the youngest, Frances Guthrie, who was not on the Titanic with her siblings:
http://www.lighthouseinn-ct.com/lighthousepages/history.html |
Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 3359
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:39 am: |
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the New York Historical Society.
An aside of little consequence (except, I imagine, to the Society): Alone (as far as I know) among the city's various organizations and institutions, the Historical Society has retained the once-common hyphen in New-York. It's The New-York Historical Society.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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Daniel S. Lamson
Member
Username: daniel_lamson
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 1:33 pm: |
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http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu148/dlamson_album/lamsongirls.jpg
Hello,
Here is a photo of the Lamson sisters that I recently found in my grandfathers chest that was past down to me. This photo had not seen the light of day since at least 1961...
Unfortunately there is no identification of any of the sisters in the photograph and which of these lovely ladies were on the titanic is a mystery.
With Martin Williams’s link to the photo on emuseum.nyhistory.org one of the sisters can be ruled out. The woman sitting at the 7:00 position is Elizabeth (Lady Drummond). As for which ones were the Lamson sisters that were on the Titanic is anyone's guess. |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 701
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 9:28 am: |
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Thanks so much for that, Daniel. It is fascinating to see this photograph of all the Lamson sisters together, looking for all the world like they've just wandered out of the pages of The Age of Innocence. As you've spotted yourself, the miniature of Elizabeth Drummond held by the New York Historical Society is clearly based on her appearance in your picture. Date-wise, I'd place it around 1885 - possibly a little earlier, not much later. Funnily enough, the fact that the girls are seated makes it difficult to be any more precise than that. The fashions of the late 1870s and early 1880s were very distinctive, with numerous variants on the bustle skirt, but these are not really discernable here.
Myself, I think it likely that the photograph was taken to mark Elizabeth's marriage to the English diplomat Victor Drummond in 1882. This was an important Society event of that year (see one of my posts above) and her younger sister Charlotte, who would become Mrs Edward D. Appleton of Titanic fame, was one of her bridesmaids. With Elizabeth shortly to depart for Europe with her groom, it seems probable that the family wished to have an image of all the siblings together - it being by no means certain that they would ever meet again. |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 628
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 11:08 am: |
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I also have to thank you, Daniel, for sharing such a remarkable photo. Just for the fun of playing mix and match, I think the sister in the striped dress most resembles the photo I've seen of the middle-aged Caroline Brown. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a photo of Mrs Cornell; and I can't tell from the ET photo of Mrs Appleton which of these young ladies she is.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-biography/charlotte-appleton.html |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 705
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 2:59 pm: |
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No, I've never seen a photograph of Mrs Cornell either - well, not until Daniel kindly provided the one above, that is. It is a pity we can't be more certain which sister is which. Given that all the girls are wearing their hair up, it seems likely that even the youngest has passed the age of seventeen or eighteen and is now officially 'out'. I know how you detest her, Brian, but this picture irresistibly reminds me of Edith Wharton and her tales of Old New York. I wonder if she was known personally to the Lamson family?
One way or another, I like these sisters very much. One has the impression that, in spite of the distances separating them, and the demands made by their husbands and children, they retained close and affectionate ties throughout their lives. It would be fascinating to know what was going on 'behind the scenes' in the wake of the Titanic disaster. Presumably, a flurry of frantic letter-writing and telegram-sending took place between their numerous relatives and offspring scattered across Europe and America. |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 708
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 5:11 pm: |
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Scroll down a little on this link and you'll find a recent photograph of Charlotte Appleton's home in Bayside, New York. I gather that her husband, publisher Edward Dale Appleton, purchased it in 1905.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/NEIGHBORHOODS/bayside1/bayside.html
I'd be quite tempted to chop down those ugly trees flanking the front door! |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 629
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 4:24 am: |
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Though I'm not a fan of Wharton, I too am captivated by the Old New York chronicled in The Age of Innocence. And I agree that the Lamsons seem to represent it beautifully; as, in my opinion, do Edith Evans, the Speddens, and Clinch Smith.
One thing that makes the Lamson sisters so interesting is the varied nature of their marriages - a pianist, a judge, a third-generation New York publisher, a Boston publisher (and schoolmistress's son), an aristocratic English statesman, and a Pittsburgh steel magnate. Speaking of the last-mentioned, the roots of Charles Strong Guthrie seem to run deep in New England, but I have been less successful in tracing Fanny's first husband, Frederick Lehmann. I have been even less successful in finding out anything on Pedro de Florez, the husband of Katharine Lamson. This is especially odd because the de Florezes seem to have made the society pages at least as often as any of the Lamsons. A 1920 passenger manifest from one of the family's many New York arrivals describes Pedro as having become a naturalized US citizen in 1879. I assume he was not a peasant by birth. |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 710
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 12:50 pm: |
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I absolutely agree with you, Brian, about the Lamson sisters and Edith Evans seeming to represent Wharton's 'Old New York'. I said as much in my last contribution to the 'Rich People in Society' thread. And your observation about the varied nature of the Lamson marriages is spot-on, too. An eclectic family, to be sure. I've just found an obituary for Robert Clifford Cornell, Malvina's husband, who died in November, 1918 (during the same week in which the war in Europe ground to a halt). One wonders if he was a victim of the Spanish flu pandemic of that year? A graduate of Columbia University, Cornell was a city magistrate and he presided at the Court of Domestic Relations, which was established in 1910. This was, the press noted, the first court of its kind anywhere in the world and his own analysis of the primary causes of marital breakdown is worth recording; 'first, drunkenness and shirking of responsibility on the part of the husband; second, extravagance and unreasonableness of the part of the wife'. One hopes that his own relationship with Malvina incorporated neither drunkenness nor extravagance! He was certainly present at the White Star Line offices in New York the day after the sinking, trying to ascertain whether or not she had been rescued. Her name was not included on the initial list of survivors with her sisters and he had a terrible morning until he knew that she was safe. By the time the glad tidings were delivered, he was seemingly in a state of near-collapse.
Beyond what I've gleaned from the enchanting Polar: The Titanic Bear, I haven't looked into the Spedden family background too closely. But I know that they were socially very active during the first decade or so of the century and were on familiar terms with the likes of Colonel Gracie and Clinch Smith. Smith himself is an interesting case of an Old New Yorker of distinguished Colonial pedigree who made the leap into the racier milieu of Mamie Fish and Mrs Ogden Mills. Doubtless, the transition was greatly assisted by the sizeable legacy he was left by his aunt, the widow of A.T. Stewart. Besides Colonel Astor himself, Smith was the only other member of Caroline Astor's fabled Four Hundred on the Titanic. I've been writing up his biography over the past few months and hope to get it on-line at some point in the not-too-distant future. Maybe we can do a trade-off, Brian? I'd still love to know what you've discovered about the tantalising and enigmatic Virginia Clark!
Best wishes as ever
Martin |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 630
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 6:18 pm: |
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Of, course! We should set a mutual deadline to get these bios up on ET. I'm pretty busy at the moment, but I am hereby resolving to share what I've uncovered about Virginia up by, say, this year's anniversary of the sinking.
Regards,
Brian |
Daniel S. Lamson
Member
Username: daniel_lamson
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 11:21 pm: |
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One person that must have been quite interesting was Charles Marshall Lamson. He was the eldest brother of the sisters. He left New York and headed west to South Dakota where he owned a ranch in the town of Fall River, South Dakota.
He was later joined by a couple of his nephews, one of them being Robert Brown, who was the son of Mrs. Brown.
Here is a photo of Robert on his mount taken around 1900.
http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu148/dlamson_album/bob_brown_horse.jpg |
Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 632
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 11:57 pm: |
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Thanks for sharing that, Daniel. It's a great photo.
I just searched the New York Times archive for an obit I had seen recently of a Lamson brother, but it turns out that it's for John Lamson, who died in 1897. Here it is, in case you haven't seen it.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C06E0DF163DE433A2575BC0A9629C94669ED7CF |
Martin Williams
Member
Username: martin_williams
Post Number: 711
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 3:25 pm: |
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Thanks for that photograph of Mrs Brown's son, Daniel. The rugged terrain of South Dakota must have seemed a long way away from genteel Old New York! The close bonds existing between the Lamson siblings persisted into the next generation. I've come across two reports, at least, which have one or other of the sisters throwing parties for their nephews and nieces.
Thinking back to their experiences that night, one can't help but reflect on how frightening it must have been when the Lamson sisters became separated from one another. It seems to be generally agreed that Mrs Appleton and Mrs Cornell embarked on Emergency Boat No. 2 whilst, famously, Mrs Brown was in Collapsible D - so becoming, quite conceivably, the very last passenger to board the very last boat to leave the sinking Titanic. What they had been doing in the intervening period is open to question. Research suggests that many other first-class ladies, who had had every opportunity to escape at an early stage, prevaricated until very late on in the proceedings. Thankfully, Malvina and Charlotte did not waste precious moments seeking their sister but, instead, entered a boat. Poor Bess Allison, looking for both her husband and her baby, was not so fortunate. Nor was Caroline Brown the only one who got separated from her relatives. I recently re-read Jack Thayer's account and he also describes loosing his parents in the throng. It is easy to forget how dark and crowded the decks must have been that night; the general air of confusion not eased at all by the lack of co-ordinated instruction from above. This is a very illuminating thread from a couple of years back which touches on some of the issues I've been mulling over:
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5665/99672.html?1181278404
I particularly like Steve Shortman's contribution to the debate. Various sources suggest that, initially, quite a substantial first-class contingent waited to board Lifeboat No. 4 - only for many to become disgruntled with the various delays and, ultimately, drift off to depart the ship by other means.
Lastly, I only realised a month or so ago that, by his own account, Colonel Gracie - a truly indefatigable networker - did not actually know Edith Evans personally and, indeed, was only introduced to her for the first time as the ship was sinking. Even then, he didn't catch her name and had to ask her to repeat it to him when he re-encountered her with Mrs Brown at a truly critical stage. |
Arne Mjåland
Member
Username: arne
Post Number: 192
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 - 9:50 pm: |
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The obituary about Caroline Lamson Brown was published in Concord Journal June 28 1928. She was survived by two daughters, Mrs. George S. Keyes of Concord and Miss Margery Brown of Acton and three sons Murray Brown of Acton, Robert C. Brown of Richmond, Viginia and Arthur P. Brown, Luneburg, also three sisters, Mrs Robert C. Cornell and Mrs Charles Guthrie of New York, and Mrs Pedro de Florez of Paris. |
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