| Author |
Message |
    
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 135
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 3:04 am: | 
|
An apron, supposedly worn off the Titanic by Miss Francatelli is now on display.
It can be viewed here
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/collections/titanic_lusitania/
" God will get you for that Walter! "
|
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 11915
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 3:48 am: |
|
Hmmmmm...real or not, it looks like it's in decent condition. Whoever had it befor the museum did took good care of it.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
|
Michael Poirier
Member
Username: mike_poirier
Post Number: 136
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
|
Hi Michael,
I was impressed with the condition as well.
I thought she was a secretary and would have no need for an apron, but Jim pointed out that women used aprons for stuff like sewing and the like. Who knew?
Best
Mike
" God will get you for that Walter! "
|
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2473
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:06 pm: |
|
An excellent point Mike about the apron. What I find disturbing about the exhibition of this piece is that it is on a dress form over what is clearly a black domestic parlormaid's dress with detachable collar and cuffs. "Franks" was not in any sort of domestic service, but in a companion and secretarial role. It is also a curious thing how, of all garments to be wearing when her lifeboat left at about 1 a.m., this apron would have been on her person. Most likely it was already in a carpetbag or valise, and not being actually worn or intentionally packed. Women, not usually having any large pockets like a man, wore aprons for many things, and secretaries often had oversleeves and bibbed aprons to keep carbon paper, ink and ink typewriter ribbon stains off white shirtwaist blouses. This particular apron is unusually fancy with broderie anglaise trim- which is not a cheap sort of embellishment. I am certain if Lady DG had wanted tea or anything of that nature, a stewardess would have waited upon her, not her secretary onboard. I question the link which reports that Miss Francatelli worked for "a wealthy landowner", and some further confusion about how long she stayed with Lady DG, her marriage to the New York restaurant worker, and if she left Lucy's employment in 1921 or the other date mentioned. Here are the links- you can read the differing details. In any event, this apron as it is now exhibited is very misleading as is the term "maid". I would also wish the museum would give a better provenance of the piece. Of course the statement that it is the only surviving garment from the ship is also totally incorrect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4528865.stm
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5811/194.html?953621460 |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 3:49 am: |
|
All,
With reagrds to "Franks" I know it has been often said that she was not a servant to Lady DG and was more of secretary and companion, and even dined with the DG's. However, Franks was booked on the ship as a "maid". Both Sir and Lady DG paid about 39 pounds for their passage. Franks was on Lucile's ticket, and was the additional 15 pounds of the cost, which was the cost for a servant booked into 1st class.
This probably explains why Franks was on E deck, rather than perhaps on A deck next to Lucile, if she was just a traveling companion. Servants booked into 1st class couldn't always be accommodated next to their employers or were placed in the same cabin, such as the Carter and Douglas maids. One of the "maids" (it may even have been Franks -- but I could be wrong), referred to having a cabin on E deck, where various other maids were berthed. This was true as Maioni, Kreuchen, Franks, Wilson were all on E deck. There may even be others, but we don't know their cabins.
I wonder if Franks would have been required to eat in the Maids and Valet's saloon, because she was booked as a maid, or whether she was allowed to eat in the a la carte Restaurant because individual meals were paid for.
Regards,
Daniel. |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2483
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 5:19 am: |
|
I guess the term "personal assistant" had not yet been invented Daniel! :-)
Oh, I would have a hard time imagining Miss Francatelli dining with domestic maids and the odd manservant, and I am sure Lady DG would not have wanted that either. I would bet she took her meals with "Madame". |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 2045
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
|
Was just reading a 1912 Lamport and Holt Line brochure, which illustrates why servants travelling on the Olympic class White Star ships were fortunate:
SERVANTS: are charged two thirds of the minimum first class fare and accomodations are assigned on sailing day. Maid servants, holding servants' tickets, dine in the nursery with the children of first class passengers. Men servants dine in the second class dining saloon.
Dining in the nursery every meal on one of the month long L&H New York to Buenos Aires voyages seems like a foretaste of hell. Also seems like a clever means of getting free childcare and supervision on the part of the shipping line. Those carrying servants' tickets were barred from entering the first class public rooms. |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2177
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
|
Certainly those travelling at the servants' rate on Titanic were barred from the dining room and probably also from the restaurant, if the rule-makers had ever envisaged such an unlikely possibility. I imagine that would suit their preference as they would feel more at ease and less conspicuous in the essentially 2nd Class venue of the maids and valets saloon than in a swish restaurant full of ladies and gentlemen dressed in their best. If Lady Duff had really wanted to spare Miss F the indignity of dining 'downstairs', she would surely have paid out a few more pounds to provide her with an unrestricted 1st Class ticket.
Randy, where are you?
. |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2486
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 3:19 pm: |
|
I agree Bob-you can bet the First Class was spared the homely vision of Alice Cleaver in her nursemaid kit (with maybe even the streamers on the cap!) gnoshing French cuisine at table. I suspect, knowing Lady DG's temperament, she had just what and who she wanted at table and everywhere else. Laura, no doubt was very nicely dressed, and entirely presentable anywhere on board, which was the starting point for this thread about the misleading exhibition of that apron displayed as it is on a house servant's uniform. Most likely Randy will weigh in soon. It is a minor but intriguing topic for reflection. One can also imagine delectable little meals served in the Upper Crust cabins I suspect that service was available for those who wished utmost privacy, or who were infirm. |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
|
All,
Last I heard from Randy, he was away. I'm not sure if he's back yet, but when he does get back, I'm sure he would chime in!
According to Lady DG's autobiography, Franks did dine with them in the Restaurant. This is what I was wondering about, whether a "maid" would be banned from this room, or allowed to eat there considering that the meals were paid for individually. Franks may have snuck in because I'm sure she would have been well dressed, or else no barring was enforced.
Lady and Sir DG booked their tickets from different offices (or at least they did not have corresponding tickets), so unless they were charged differently for their identical accommodation, I still think that Lucile saved on costs by booking Franks as a "maid" for some 15 pounds (minimum being 26, or the 39 pounds each of the DG's paid for their rooms). This is further supported by the fact that the Mr. and Mrs. Morgan are listed with a "maid", rather than Franks being mentioned under her own name, which I think she would have been if she was booked as a full fare passenger.
The maids and valet's saloon was a very nice room anyway. After all, a 1st class servant cost more than a 2nd class full fare passenger, and all three classes (so to speak) basically dined on the same food, served from the same galleys.
Regards,
Daniel. |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:11 pm: |
|
Well of course, Daniel- smart thinking- "Discretions and Indiscretions" would have it! Snuck in? Oh no- Lucy would walk in with Franks on her arm and a brass band right up to the Captain's table I bet! |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2178
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:19 pm: |
|
Laura Francatelli did have a rather distinguished look about her so yes, she could probably have passed muster among the dining toffs at least for luncheon on occasion. I wonder if her motivation in wearing her pinnie was to save as much of her wardrobe as possible by piling on as many items as possible - short of her nightgown which famously went down with the ship. :-) |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2488
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
|
That's the other issue Bob- where does it say she wore it off the ship? Can't imagine anyone running 'round in a pinnie at that hour. Of course who would believe a squirrel fur coat either? At least that was warm! Funny how things obtain such a Holy Grail status if they just were in somebody's purse. Lulu Drew just had that famous hatband in her purse, and forgot all about it. Louise Kink Pope had the shoes she had on and the steamer robe she was wrapped in-Frank Aks had Mrs. Astor's scarf, etc.- and they have all become objects of near-veneration. I think it is highly likely that apron was in a hand valise or carpet bag. Technically then she would have taken it off the ship with her. Somebody ought to tell this museum though that there are OODLES of things off the ship from steward's jacket to pocket watches, men's suits to eyeglasses and rings , many items still around from the lifeboats or recovered from bodies brought into Halifax. |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2489
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
|
Forgot to mention Lucile's own kimono which is carefully documented and recently exhibited in the UK and Edy Russell's famous "mule" slippers at Greenwich. Somebody did not do their homework over at Merseyside. |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2179
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 5:14 pm: |
|
And Marion Wright's 'lucky coat' is in a glass case somewhere in Oregon. We could send a list to Merseyside, though if it's strictly clothing worn on the night it maybe won't be a very long list. And if 'Mrs Astor' really was the source of all those items of spare clothing ascribed to her, the poor woman must have been au naturel by the time she reached the Carpathia! |
Bob Godfrey
Member
Username: bobgod1
Post Number: 2180
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
|
Daniel, your mention of the M&V saloon as a very nice room suggests the possibility of an available photo or a detailed description? I'd be interested in that. I've seen only the representation on the deck plan, which makes it look cramped and more like a crew mess hall than a passenger dining area. I believe on the Britannic the M&V saloon was planned to be in the location which on Titanic/Olympic was the hospital on D deck. Twice the size and with sea views! But perhaps rather noisy with the kitchens right alongside. |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 5:52 am: |
|
Hello everybody,
I suppose it was only a matter of time before I opened my big mouth on this subject. So here goes.
I don’t want to be too critical but I’m a little curious about the authenticity of this museum costume, as it isn’t what "Franks" herself recalled wearing when she escaped Titanic, according to a letter she wrote a friend shortly after the disaster. As you’ll see from excerpts below, it can’t be ruled out, however, since she was a little vague at one point about what she ultimately wore when she ran up to Lucy Duff Gordon’s cabin after the collision with the berg. One thing that does seem clear is that she didn’t "carry" the apron; she stated she saved nothing else but what she wore; "I haven’t a stitch left," she said, "or a penny in the world," moreover that "everything of mine" went down.
In Franks’ well-known, and yet elusive, letter of April 28, 1912, written on Ritz-Carlton stationary, to her friend Marion ("Mary Ann") Taylor, she wrote that "she was just getting into bed" when Titanic struck the ice and that she "slipped on my dressing gown" before going out in the corridor to investigate. After standing around in the hall for what she claimed was 20 minutes, watching officers coming by on their inspections and other crewmen fastening watertight doors, she said "I thought I shall fly on a few things and go and tell Madame."
Those are her own words –– "fly on a few things." What she chose to wear must have been something of a grab-bag assortment for in her autobiography Lucy DG confirmed that:
"….I remember that I teased Miss Francatelli about the weird assortment of clothes the poor girl had flung on before leaving the ship, for she was generally very fussy over her clothes…."
As Shelley Dziedzic has rightly pointed out above, aprons were not uncommon items of apparel for working women. Secretaries and stenographers often wore them, as did nurses, governesses, etc. I have a photo of the secretaries at Vogue magazine wearing them in 1914, although they were worn over fashionable gowns of silk and velvet, not a maid’s uniform. Also, as Shelley says, these were generally quite utilitarian, not lacy, such as a parlor maid might wear. The one that supposedly belonged to Franks (and by the way, that’s a nickname she used herself) is quite formal and therefore strange for her to wear in her capacity as secretary and companion. It isn’t , however, out of the realm of possibility that she wore such a frilly "Fifi the Maid" thing; it’s just very odd.
Another aspect puzzles me. Supposedly, the only blood relations of Laura Mabel Francatelli (later Mrs. Max Haering), are cousins and a nephew. Are these individuals the ones who donated the apron? These people were contacted a few years ago by another researcher and myself, and while he may have since come to a different conclusion than I did, I believe one of the "relatives" was an imposter. I won’t go into it, but there’s some question, as far as I’m concerned, about who Franks’ surviving relations are.
Finally, Franks was not a maid! There’s nothing wrong with being a maid ––– "some of my best friends" …. Etc. ––– so it’s not out of snobbery that I say this with emphasis. I’m just trying to correct a common misunderstanding. Franks was a "servant" only in the since that any employee would have been considered that in those days, but she was not Lucy’s personal maid. Lucy had a maid already –– her name was Rachel Mason –– but she luckily stayed behind in Paris when Lucy and Cosmo sailed on Titanic.
Franks, as Daniel Klistorner correctly informs us, was travelling at a reduced rate, sharing Lucy’s ticket. This was a decision likely made by Cosmo, who was a thrifty soul, and not by Lucy, who was no where near thrifty. Not having Franks booked in a cabin nearby was simply because she didn’t need her nearby; she could call for the steward or stewardess if she needed something. Plus, this was a rare opportunity for Lucy and Cosmo to spend some time together, Lucy having been very busy building up her company in those years. That’s why they were travelling under an alias –– and (ironically) to avoid the usual press hoopla in New York that occasioned Lucy’s visits to her branch there.
Franks was a tall and imposing person, and came from a well-regarded, talented Anglo-Italian family (her uncle had been Queen Victoria’s chef) and, as a business woman in her own right, she would have been considered above the status of a maid. Lucy’s autobiography makes clear that Franks accompanied her and Cosmo on walks on the promenade and to dinner with them in the a la carte restaurant on the evening of April 14. She would not have been dressed in any sort of a uniform but in fashionable clothes. Her letter to her friend, and Lucy’s letters later, prove that Franks was very well-dressed in her capacity as Lucy’s lady companion/personal assistant.
Lucy Duff Gordon, contrary to what is thought about her today, was no social snob and detested class prejudice, which she herself had suffered. I would like to have heard a steward tell her that her secretary couldn’t dine with her; she might have swung her swagger stick at him (which she actually once did to a reporter!)
Best wishes to you all,
Randy
|
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 197
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 8:47 am: |
|
Here is a piece from the snobs' magazine, the Tatler, one of a file of GREAT Lucile material I recently acquired from a vintage fashion collector here in Ireland.
(I'll bring it up to Belfast next year for some others to check out. There are 71 items directly related to Lucile, her sister, her business and her family, mostly clippings and trade papers. Some fantastic material. I have already turned down an offer of 1500 Euro for this little lot.)
This is scanned this at low resolution:
Just look at this caption. Isn't it simply SPLENDID? How snobbish can one get? |
Shelley Dziedzic
Moderator
Username: shelley
Post Number: 2493
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Very nice photo Senan, and one I had not seen before. Sounds like a great repository of information there-oh, I agree, Tatler and Town and Country did write in the style to cater to the sensibilities of that upper crust elite. The same is true today, only it's the Sloane Rangers and the horsey set. It's a wise magazine editor who knows his or her market and writes "their language". |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 1:30 pm: |
|
I guess I don’t see anything snobbish about the caption. The Duff Gordons WERE unfairly treated in the press. And Cosmo WAS only a passenger. There was no special obligation he had, over and above any other male passenger in a lifeboat that night, to go back and save swimmers. It is reverse class prejudice that singles him out, when there were many other men, of lesser means, who didn’t lead a rescue effort either. If a titled gentleman was less than a hero for not going back, so were several regular blokes. And, bottom line, it WAS the job of the crew in charge of the lifeboats to go back, regardless of what any passenger, however well-heeled, thought.
By the way, I have the above photo of Lucile by Lallie Charles and many like it, having spent a lot of time at the Illustrated London News Picture Library, which retains the copyright to The Tatler, The Sphere, The Sketch and other society mags. The picture was featured in the May 29, 1912 issue of The Tatler, to be exact, although it was taken in 1907. There were actually about three poses from this session. To purchase a copy of the photo, or find others, go to:
http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/
This library is currently cataloging all its photos for online searching. Not everything is searchable yet, but the librarians are very helpful, and they can find what you want.
|
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 1:34 pm: |
|
Here’s the link again:
http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/ |
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Username: danielr
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 5:26 pm: |
|
Randy,
I understand completely that Franks was definitely not a maid, as we have discussed it many years ago when I originally asked you about the DG's. I was just curious as to her treatment, considering she was traveling at a reduced rate.
However, from the few mentions that we have, she does not seem to have been treated any differently. This may be because she wore normal & fashionable clothes, rather than a uniform, so she must have just blended into the crowd and none of the stewards asked her to leave any public rooms or restaurants.
Regards,
Daniel. |
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 209
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
|
There is a lot of cr*p like this flyer in the collection, which I don't really get, not being into women's fashion.
But the really good stuff is really good. I was surprised to find a programme for Pygmalion signed by George Bernard Shaw, with notes initialled 'L. D. G.'
There were other signatures on it. I recognised the great Sir Herbert Tree and Mrs Patrick Campbell (GBS's great friend), but not others like Philip Merivale and Edmund Gurney.
A bit of research has turned up that these were the original actors in the premiere of Pygmalion ("My Fair Lady") on the West End stage. Which makes the programme fairly valuable.
There is also a picture of Mrs Duff Gordon wearing the "Lady dress" used in Pygmalion when the flower girl is finished by Professor Higgins into "torking proper" and all that.
There seems to be some suggestion that Lady Duff Gordon designed this dress. Does anyone know whether she was friendly with GBS? |
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 210
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 4:12 pm: |
|
Pygmalion dress. The premiere was in 1914.
 |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 7:31 pm: |
|
Senan:
Very interesting pictures. The flyer looks to be a page from a fashion mag, c. 1912-14. I am familiar only with the design on the right, which Lucile repeated in subsequent collections. The photo I have of it is dated 1916. The model on the left is Dolores, who later went into the Ziegfeld Follies. If there is a short, puffy-looking girl among the models in your collection, that is Phyllis Francatelli, Laura’s younger sister.
As to Shaw’s "Pygmalion," the gowns for Mrs. Patrick Campbell were designed by Madame Handley-Seymour, some of whose original sketches for this play are at the V&A. Mrs. Pat was a client of Lucile’s but she didn’t wear her dresses in any Shaw production because of his maniacal control of his plays and players. He publicly decried the influence of fashion on the London stage, women flocking to a play to see what the leading lady was wearing, news columns devoted to a fad started by this actress or that, etc. Shaw refused to engage famous dressmakers or milliners, who might upstage his vehicles, and made several very pointed remarks about Lucile’s particularly ubiquitous appearance in theatre programmes. His professional dislike turned personal when he wrote some scathing little ditties about her in a series of editorials after the Titanic disaster. She never forgot his unkindness, and even mentioned it in her memoir. So, no the two were not pals. Lucile was close with Sir Herbert Beerbohm Tree and his wife (a client) and was also friends with Sir Arthur Wing Pinero, who (according to Lucile’s granddaughter) introduced her to Sir Cosmo after her divorce.
The photo above is of Mrs. Pat, wearing one of Mme. Handley-Seymour’s dresses. I can’t account for the "LDG" initials, except that Mrs. Pat was very involved in choosing her stage clothes and it’s possible the initials indicated her desire to have a dress in the Lucile style (?) Of course, the initials may have nothing to do with Lucile.
Interestingly, when the movie version of "My Fair Lady" was made, costume designer Cecil Beaton based the white evening dress Audrey Hepburn wore for the ball scene on Lucile’s gown for Lily Elsie in the 1907 premier of The Merry Widow.
If you wish to sell your collection at some point, a private collector in England, Lewis Orchard, whose vast Lucile archive of clothing and mementos is destined for the V&A, may be interested. My own research on Lucile is completed, and I’ll likely give my collection to the Fashion Institute.
Randy |
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 211
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 8:43 pm: |
|
Original Pygmalion memorabilia seems to go for quite a lot.
I have no doubt that this is of a piece with the other LDG stuff. I did not assemble this stuff myself, I hasten to add.
My five-year-old daughter seems mad into fashion, otherwise I would probably discard some of the material, to be frank.
There is also an "LDG" initials note written across the top of clip (*literally - rusty paperclip!) of nine foolscap pages which seems to be an early typewritten version of Chapter Eight of Discretions and Indiscretions.
There are substantional changes with the finished version. There are two whole pages on Ireland, not very complimentary, while it barely merits a fleeting mention of the Jarrolds version. Maybe that is the reason this version was sent to Ireland.
Who is Peg Wally of 59 Ebury Street? There are a lot of letters from Lucile to her.
There are also two handwritten notes on personal notepaper to a man called Frank Harris, with whom she may or may not have had an affair.
A book by Harris, entitled "Montes the Matrador and Other Stories" (Lot 225) coincidentally sold for £200 at this year's BTS auction. It had an inscription to Lady Duff Gordon. I was slow in getting my number up, as I thought it was going cheap.
BTW, Randy, I mentioned this to Dave Hill of the Atlantic Daily Bulletin, and he said he had had several emails about what he called "admittedly a schoolboy howler," but Dorothy Gibson could not have handed in a message to the Marconi room as this part of the boat deck was off-limits to passengers.
She would have 'sent' the message at the Purser's Office on C Deck, and of course it would have flown up to Phillips and Bride by pneumatic tube.
Interesting that 'Lucile' and GBS did not get on. I did not know that.
Warmest regards all,
S |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 3:36 pm: |
|
I’ve never run across the name Peg Wally. It isn’t mentioned in any papers I’ve seen that Lucy’s family has retained. The lady companion who was with her at the end of her life was Ruby Sutton, her former social secretary. Lucy also had a maid named Helen Brewer in 1931-32 who died a few years ago. She was from Ireland and Lucy paid her expenses to go back to visit relatives at a time when Lucy barely had money for herself, the executors of Cosmo’s estate being tight-wads about dispersing funds to her.
The information you have about her negative feelings for Ireland is interesting and surprising, since she always professed to love Ireland (she was part Irish herself). Lucy’s maternal great grandfather was a police magistrate in Dublin at one time. She was also friends with Sir Hugh Lane and one of her most beautiful clients was Lady Lavery, of whom I recently found a great photo in which she’s wearing a Lucile dress. Lucy was in fact accused by some of being anti-British for "decamping" to the USA at the start of WWI. Her daughter and sister wrote her repeatedly to come back and clear up the impression of defection she’d left in some circles. She did make one visit to England in 1916 to get her things from her house in London, which Cosmo had sold after their separation. But she came back to America, and stayed on here until 1919.
I know that the US edition of "Discretions and Indiscretions" was edited for some strong opinions against American capitalism and for some possibly libelous remarks about the manufacturer who eventually took over the reins of "Lucile, Ltd." Perhaps the Irish bits also were cut for being too volatile.
As to journalist Frank Harris, I’m sure he was a friend only. The signed book you refer to, with the provocative 1909 inscription, refers to his viewing a musical fashion show Lucy put on that spring at her salon in Hanover Square, called "The Seven Ages of Woman." All Lucile gowns famously carried over-the-top, love-sick names like "When Passion’s ‘Thrall is O’er," "The Sighing Sound of Lips Unsatisfied," etc. These were the "Sensations Immoral" Harris referred to in his tongue-in-cheek inscription. Harris would probably have wanted people to think he had an affair with Lucy. Although a top literary editor in his day, his integrity abandoned him in old age, when he published his largely fictitious, and pornographic, autobiography, "My Life and Loves."
By the way, Lucy was criticized by some conservative press commentators for inviting so many men ("Piccadilly trotters" one reporter called them) to her fashion shows. It lent, so detractors claimed, an "undignified" air to the event, with men leering at the pretty girl-models and even flirting with the ladies in the audience. Of course the atmosphere was great for sales!
About Dorothy Gibson not handing in her cables at the Marconi room. Oops! I wouldn’t have known that, not being a liner researcher, which is why I sent copies of the Titanic chapters of my book to experts to proof. I made several bloopers in the original draft, which showed my ignorance of ships, and I quickly corrected them, but this oversight about the Marconi office wasn’t brought to my attention. I’m sure I made other mistakes, but I did my best to be as accurate as I could, and the contributors who helped me were marvelous to take the time to read proofs.
I thank you very much for bringing the error to my attention. I’ll want to correct it in a future edition. And my apologies to the ADB. (Geoff Whitfield was one of the experts I enlisted, so really it’s all his fault!)
Randy |
Kyrila Scully
Member
Username: childstar413
Post Number: 1607
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 3:53 pm: |
|
Randy! It's so good to see you back on ET. I'm thoroughly enjoying your book. Everyone on the forum should buy a copy. It's fabulous!!! So rich with information and photographs. I'm delighted to have it.
Kyrila
"Now, bring me that horizon!"
www.titanicimpact.org
|
Senan Molony
Member
Username: senan_molony
Post Number: 213
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
|
Very interesting about Harris. |
Nancy Bratby
Member
Username: nancy_bratby
Post Number: 49
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 8:22 pm: |
|
Gosh, a 1500 euro offer, after what you paid for it, Senan? I would have bitten their arm off.
(Senan brought some of his Lucile Duff Gordon gems to Southampton to show a select few. The colourised design brochures for different seasons must in themselves be worth a fortune.)
It is strange that the same name cropped up with the BTS Auction lot in which a copy of Discretions and Indiscretions was sold with an inscription in it about "sensations immoral".
We thought there was definitely something in it.
Senan has a handwritten letter from Lucile to the same gentleman describing a holiday on the Cote d'Azur and the Isle of Capri. She also sent him a photograph of herself, hand-inscribed on verso, from 1918. Another faintly sexy message that raises questions as well as eyebrows...
Just how much did Lucile get away with behind Sir Cosmo's back? |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 4:52 am: |
|
Hi, Nancy:
I agree with you that Senan’s collection would be worth much more than 1500 Euros. It certainly sounds as if he has a fascinating cache.
However, Lucile, Ltd didn’t publish brochures per se for its collections, only exhibition programmes. There are many examples in the library at the Fashion Institute of Technology. The only color "brochures" or catalogues connected with Lucy Lady Duff Gordon would have been for the ready-to-wear line of dresses she did for Sears, Roebuck, and Co. (1916-17). These come up for auction on eBay regularly and are fairly high priced.
Also, the BTS auction was for a copy of a book by Frank Harris, not Lucy Duff Gordon.
As to Lucy having an affair with Frank Harris. If so, he’d have been but one name in an interesting lot –– politicians, artists, musicians, a playwright, a lord, even a gigolo! My pending book makes account of most of these relationships but doesn’t pretend to be a definitive survey of who she slept with. If she did have a fling with Harris, there was definitely nothing between them by 1918, when she was in the middle of a well-documented romance with another man. Lucy’s personality was that of a coquette. Even her letters to her family reveal this tendency. In her later years, however, her natural flirtatiousness was embarrassing. Her grandson recalled how she liked to tease his university pals which he said was mortifying.
The vacation destinations mentioned seem intriguing choices for Lucy, as she normally didn’t follow after the society set, contrary to what might be imagined. She was an artist essentially, preferring fellow bohemians as friends, and went to places that had personal significance –– Venice, Villa ‘d’Este, Lago di Como and Normandy. She seldom did the Riviera round, though naturally she dressed the socialites who did. For herself, she chose to paint on her getaways, not party. Her late granddaughter kept some of her paintings –– mostly night waterscapes –– done at Como. Lucy showed remarkable skill in these studies, which she called her "blue pictures." Maybe she’d have been a great painter had she not loved designing clothes so much. I imagine a holiday in Capri would have inspired some especially lovely pictures!
Randy
|
Nancy Bratby
Member
Username: nancy_bratby
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:06 pm: |
|
Thanks Randy, of course the BTS Auction lot was of a book by Frank Harris. My error, I knew it wasn't Lucy's book so don't know how that came out! There was a lot of giggling round the room when that inscription was read out, I can tell you. |
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Username: randy_bryan_bigham
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
|
Nancy:
Yes, I bet there was a lot of giggling. That inscription is so over-the-top! I recall when the book first came to light a few years ago (it was once sold on eBay), I was really shocked, and had to look back over my notes to see if I had anything on this Frank Harris. Then I remembered his name as being on a guest list for her Spring 1909 show in London, and it all made sense. I do think Harris was terribly bold to write that passage to her. He was no doubt hoping for a bit of fun! He may well have found it. Lucy received gentlemen to tea constantly at her Hanover Square salon, and as tea often meant more than tea in those days, who knows what went on? She had a lot of married men in to see her, and one has to wonder if they were really all that interested in fashion!
Randy
|
lewis orchard
Member
Username: lewchaorc
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 4:33 pm: |
|
This is the provenance provided by the Mersey Maritime Museum in Liverpool that owns the 'Francatelli Apron' It is easily obtained by contacting them. Contrary to the speculation above it did not originate from an 'imposter relative' ET members can make of this provenance what they will. It is a shame that so much speculation occurred without it. I believe that there is a good photograph of it on the Museum website.
To Whom It May Concern;
Miss Francatellis Apron.
Given to my maternal Grandmother, Miss Sophia Wright of Denholme, Bradford, West Yorkshire by her niece Laura Mabel Francatelli shortly before the latter permanently left England in about 1914 to marry a New York restaurant worker.
Laura Mabel Francatelli was the personal maid/secretary to the couturier 'Lucile'-Lady Lucy Duff-Gordon. Together with Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon, Miss Francatelli accompanied her employer on a business trip in April 1912 to Paris and then to Cherbourg to board RMS 'Titanic' to visit Lucy's fashion houses in New York and Chicago. After the 'Titanic' struck the iceberg Miss Francatelli, Lady Lucy, and Sir Cosmo were placed in a lifeboat and were saved. On board the rescuing ship 'Carpathia' it was Miss Francatelli who wrote out the £5 cheques on the ship's stationary which were signed by Sir Cosmo, as a token of thanks to the seamen in the lifeboat.
I always understood from my mother, Nellie Wright of Donholme, who was six at the time of the accident that the relationship between my grandmother's family (Barrett of Peckham) and the Francatelli's (Tooting?) was particularly close. A sister of my grandmother had married Miss Francatelli's father. So when the Barrett family moved to Heidelburg Road, Manningham, Bradford to work in the textile mills of Lister & Co some of the Francatelli's also moved. My maternal grandfather Jacob Wright, was employed in those mills as a packer to despatch the products all over the world.
When the news of the accident filtered through, there was great anxiety in all the families, which was greatly compounded by the fact that the Duff gordon's did not sail under their own name but as Mr and Mrs Morgan. When the initial survivor lists were published in the newspapers (there only source of information and which I still have) The Francatelli's, Barretts, and Wrights were forced to conclude that Miss Francatelli must have perished because they could not find the name Duff Gordon. The truth only became apparent in later lists, but even then , as a servant, Miss Francatelli was not listed.
Before Miss Francatelli left England she asked my Grandmother (her Aunt) if they could exchange personal items as keepsakes to remember each other by. For her part Miss Francatelli told my grandmother that this was the apron she was wearing on the night of the disaster and she was giving it to her as a symbol of their sad parting, knowing that it would always be treasured by her. They never met again. the name Francatelli was revered in my mother's family and the same story was told to me by both my mother and her two brothers in the same undeviating detail.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
There follows details of supporting photographs of the family and some descriptions of Miss Francatelli, and Lucy Duff Gordon.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In our turns both my mother and I have tried to look after the apron but it is now becoming very fragile. I hope that any purchaser will consider the acute personal value attached to the apron by my mother's family and will wish to treasure and conserve it as we have done in the past but are no longer capable of doing.
John Wright Lumbers. |
|
