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Gabriel Gerard Scotto
Member
Username: rms_atlantic
Post Number: 43
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 3:54 am: | 
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I thought of something: Why didn't the White Star Line attempt to aquire the IMS "Vaterland/SS Leviathan" from the US? It could have been a war reparation, and she'd fit nicely as a replacement for the "Titanic." I mean, she'd have been an Ideal running mate for "Olympic" and "Bismarck/Majestic." Two of the biggest of the "Imperator" trio would be under the White Star Flag, and they could have all had the same speed, increasing market share. And as for a name for this alternative "SS Leviathan,"
why not "Teutonic(II)?" After "Majestic(I)'s" sister. Imagine: Majestic(II),Teutonic(II), and Olympic, running mates.
Oh, and as for the "Columbus/Homeric," why not give it to the United States Lines? |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17183
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 4:14 am: |
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>>I thought of something: Why didn't the White Star Line attempt to aquire the IMS "Vaterland/SS Leviathan" from the US?<<
Probably because they already had the Majestic and because the market conditions made aquiring extra tonnage a bad idea from an economic standpoint.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Scott R. Andrews
Member
Username: scottandrews
Post Number: 364
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 5:10 pm: |
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"...the market conditions made acquiring extra tonnage a bad idea from an economic standpoint..."
Yes, especially extra tonnage that was worn out from heavy war service without a break and which require a complete overhaul from keel to truck. White Star already had enough of that to deal with in the Olympic and the rest of its surviving fleet. The U.S. Shipping Bureau had to invest vast sums the in the Leviathan which required complete rebuilding of her machinery and boilers, converting her to oil fuel, as well total refurbishment of her interiors to bring her accommodations back to the level of spit and polish required of a first class liner. By way of comparison, the WSL's acquiring two ships that required completing, but had literally zero hours on the hull and machinery was a great bargain.
Regards,
Scott Andrews
PS - Gabriel, regarding possible names for post-war ships, as far as White Star or just about any other British-flagged line was concerned, after August, 1914, names such as "Teutonic" or "Germanic" were most definitely moved to the s*** list! |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 17200
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 5:20 pm: |
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>>The U.S. Shipping Bureau had to invest vast sums the in the Leviathan which required complete rebuilding of her machinery...<<
If I recall correctly, there was quite a bit of damage done to the ship by the Germans before she was even taken up for use as a transport. That couldn't have helped matters in the least.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Brian Ahern
Member
Username: brian_ahern
Post Number: 573
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 5:57 pm: |
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quote:regarding possible names for post-war ships, as far as White Star or just about any other British-flagged line was concerned, after August, 1914, names such as "Teutonic" or "Germanic" were most definitely moved to the s*** list!
I'm embarrassed to say that that aspect of it hadn't occurred to me! I considered Teutonic to sound too much like Titanic to be a possibility, but the definition of the word would certainly have been a weightier obstacle. Otherwise, having two grand post-war ships named after a pair of running mates that had served the line well would have been a nice idea, IMO. |
Timothy Trower
Member
Username: tjtrower
Post Number: 526
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008 - 11:21 pm: |
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Given the sentiment for the name Oceanic, that would have been a good choice. Then again, the WSL tended to use that name for ground-breaking ships (the first ship of the line, the transitional ship of 1899, and the first 1000 foot ship) so maybe not!
Tim Trower
Please visit www.TitanicBranson.com, the World's Largest Titanic Museum Attraction
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Brent Holt
Member
Username: brent_holt
Post Number: 220
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 9, 2008 - 3:15 pm: |
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I am not sure you could call the damage inflicted on the Vaterland by the German's severe. It was definitely a nuisance, but would not have played a role in a decision on who get her after the war.
In a sense, WS almost got the Levi indirectly. She was initially assigned to IMM, which owned WS. The plan was to put her under the American Line banner. It would then have been a simple matter to arrange her schedule with Olympic & Majestic.
Perhaps WS would have still gotten the Homeric, ex-Columbus. She probably would have replaced one of the Big Four on the Liverpool to NY route. Homeric would have been well suited for this service. |
Mark Baber
Moderator
Username: mab
Post Number: 2629
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 3:49 pm: |
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the definition of the word would certainly have been a weightier obstacle
Yep. In fact, "Germanic" was discarded as the proposed name for the ship discussed here as "inadvisable" once World War I started. Source: The New York Times, 22 September 1914.
WSL tended to use [Oceanic] for ground-breaking ships
Interestingly enough, the same NYT article I just mentioned reported that "Germanic" had been dropped in favor of "Oceanic." (Whether that's correct or not, I don't know and, in any event, the name "Homeric" was also attached to this ship. "Homeric" was also reported at one point as the anticipated White Star name of Red Star's Belgenland, eventually known as "Belgic IV." Source: The New York Times, 16 Janaury 1916.) And, in 1921, "Oceanic" was being reported as the name that would be given to the ship that actually became Majestic II. Source: The New York Times, 19 February 1921.
[Homeric] probably would have replaced one of the Big Four on the Liverpool to NY route.
But as you suggested here, Brent, it's not clear why White Star would have wanted/needed another ship for Liverpool when the Big Four were still quite suitable for that service.
In any event, I agree with the thought that Vaterland becoming a White Star ship was never in the cards. The politics of the day mandated that Hapag's big ships go one to Cunard, one to White Star and one to some US operation.
MAB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OceanicSteamNavigationCo/
http://www.greatships.net/
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