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Message |
    
Grant Carman
Member
Username: lksimcoe
Post Number: 323
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 7:35 pm: | 
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We all know about Dr Ballard finding Titanic, as well as others finding liners recently, but of the liners that have never been found, which one do you wish they'd look for.
For me, it would be the 1930's era Empress of Canada, which was sunk in the South Atlantic during WW2, about 3 years after her sister ship, the Empress of Britain was sunk. |
Jeff Brebner
Member
Username: wheeds
Post Number: 56
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 8:21 pm: |
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We've had this discussion somewhere. The Waratah would be quite a coup. Closer to home,(the Pacific Northwest) I've often wondered if anything remains of the Pacific. And it's not a liner, but the Cyclops would be a cool one to find at last as well. |
Michael Cundiff
Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 977
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 5, 2009 - 3:08 am: |
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By far and away the wreck that should be found, and well deserving of a final memorial tribute is the U.S.S. Indianapolis. I recall an expedition which set out to find her, and also had a survivor on-board at the time of a possible target...turned out to be a rock outgrowth...reminded of Jack Grimm's assumtion of what he alone thought was a Titanic propellor...also...only a rock outcropping.
I just returned from Indianapolis, IN and was fortunate in having seen the U.S.S. Indianapolis memorial in the downtown sector...aside, a wonderful *World War* memorial.
Michael Cundiff
NV, USA |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 5228
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, April 5, 2009 - 4:32 am: |
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Marowijne. Vanished in the Gulf of Mexico during a giant storm, during the summer of 1915. A small debris drift was later found.
The Marowijne's owners soon received a ransom demand from Mexico, which alleged that several survivors made shore, only to be taken captive. Among these were the captain and radio man.
This was taken seriously enough that the US Navy was dispatched to ferret out the truth, or lack of, to this story. Nothing was found, but then a second demand arrived. What gives this tale a note of interest is the the Marowijne's owners publically demanded proof of the survivors and then somewhat later ran an open letter to the kidnappers agreeing to pay the ransom. At which point the story ended.
B.S.? Well... my hunch is that, yeah, it was some sort of cruel hoax. Still, I'd like to see the wreck found. 300 miles out in the Gulf...story utterly impossible. A mile offshore, the story remains unlikely, but becomes more intriguing.  This was the 1915 storm that was the acisd test for the Galveston Seawall, built after the 1900 storm. There were 250 killed in Texas, but the seawall held and Galveston got off relatively light.
Still, it's the life you chose, I suppose. Good luck to you, come what may.
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 320
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, April 5, 2009 - 3:08 pm: |
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Not a liner. But the Indianapolis.
However, I'm going to state this. I don't think that any liner will ever be as iconic and fascinating as the Titanic. It seems that major wrecks of liners and passenger vessels are always twisted masses of metal. It doesn't seem like we'll ever have a wreck as beautiful and interesting to explore as the Titanic.
It's like comparing the lead in the high school play to Sarah Bernhardt. |
Michael Cundiff
Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 978
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 12:04 am: |
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Yes, then pardon me, and however the U.S.S. Indianapolis was not a liner...she indeed is a *lost ship* of service, albeit military. So, why not go looking for the D. Kaiser Wilhelm Der Grosse...a lost liner, with very elegant interiors, and like Carpathia was lost in the Great War...the War to end all Wars???
Michael Cundiff
NV, USA |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 5229
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 4:05 am: |
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Hmmm...in that spirit, the Cap Trafalgar would be interesting, too. And the Athenia.
The Vestris would be interesting to see, if nothing else.
Still, it's the life you chose, I suppose. Good luck to you, come what may.
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Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 5230
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 4:13 am: |
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1875 Pacific: The boiler and walking beam are probably the highest remaining relief on site.
Because the old ship broke into three sections just before she sank (she split in two, and her upper deck and deck house simultaneously tore away from her hull) she is probably at rest in several different locations. Her bow washed ashore at Fowl Bay about a month after she sank, and a huge amount of identifiable debris was recovered from along the coasts of Washington and British Columbia. Her ornamental eagle survived into the 20th century as a curio, but I have no idea where it now resides.
Still, it's the life you chose, I suppose. Good luck to you, come what may.
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Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 321
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 2:04 pm: |
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Michael - I *did* indicate that the Indianapolis was not a liner. Others have named ships that were not liners. I added another to the list.
The KWDG was in service when she was sunk and her interiors had been removed. She rolled over on her side in shallow water and remained there until the 50s when she was scrapped. So, she's not really lost.
Bottom of the page:
http://www.maritimequest.com/liners/kaiser_wilhelm_der_grosse/kaiser_wilhelm_der_grosse_page_2.htm |
Jeff Brebner
Member
Username: wheeds
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 6:20 pm: |
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"1875 Pacific: The boiler and walking beam are probably the highest remaining relief on site."
I've read that the Pacific was in pretty horrendous shape (a coat of paint not withstanding) before she went down. You're probably quite right. |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 5231
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 8:00 pm: |
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Continuing the thought. When she rammed the Orpheus, her bow snapped off and was carried away by the much stronger ship. The Orpheus' crew saw the Pacific turn and begin to follow them, astern. Neither of the two survivors were in a position to see the ship sink, but a good account survives of her breaking in two in line with her funnel and walking beam.
So, it is possible that her wrecksite is merely comprised of her mechanical components. Her forward portion washed ashore a month after she sank, leaving me to wonder if a wooden hulled vessel could migrate 12-20 miles under water as quickly as it did. Or might it have drifted for a time and sank much closer to shore, in shallow water?
Another intriguing West Coast lost liner is the City of Rio de Janeiro. She grounded at Fort Point while unwisely attempting to enter the Golden Gate in fog. Witnesses on shore could quite clearly HEAR the unfolding disaster but could not see it. The City of Rio slid off the rocks, drifted for an interval, and then sank with very high loss of life. Despite being on San Francisco's doorstep, the wreck and its accompanying treasure have never been found. The combination of deep water, extreme currents, and the fact that no one could really estimate how far she drifted before finally sinking, have managed to keep her hidden for over a hundred years.
Still, it's the life you chose, I suppose. Good luck to you, come what may.
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Jeff Brebner
Member
Username: wheeds
Post Number: 61
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 6, 2009 - 10:03 pm: |
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The Pacific lacked watertight compartments, correct? I can't imagine her drifting far, especially sans bow. Didn't one of the survivors use the top of the pilot house for a raft? It sounds like she pretty much disintegrated, consistent with reports that she was essentially rotten.
I remember reading in one of Gibbs' books about the City of Rio de Janeiro. That would be a cool one to find. Although with all the legal mechanitions spawned by finding the Brother Jonathan, you might be better off NOT finding it. ;-) |
Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 322
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 - 2:12 pm: |
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Speaking of "city of" ships:
What about the City of Benares? It was lost during the war, but it was a liner. I don't know that it's ever been visited. |
George L. Lorton
Member
Username: retro_geo
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 - 5:02 pm: |
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I heard recently in one of the Collin's Lines- Arctic threads that they found that ship or are in the progress of finding her so I really don't have any ship I'd wish they'd search for now but if I'm mistaken then I wish they look for the Arctic! I know she was made of wood and has been down there a 150 years or so but there might be something left of her they could find!
The Portland was also made of wood but she was found in some what better condition then they expected although she had been down there considerably less amount of time. |
Michael Cundiff
Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 984
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 9, 2009 - 7:51 pm: |
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Jeremy: Thanks for the D. Kaiser Wilhelm Der Grosse link. I was left intrigued with the last image, the wreck of the liner off Africa. I had always assumed she was still lost...was a complete salvage undertaken after the Great War? If so, is there a museum, of sort, where salvaged items can be viewed? Anticipating your response...
BTW, as I was awaiting my air departure from Indiana, I stumbled on an U.S.O office at the airport, affixed to the wall was a large print of U.S.S. Indianapolis bearing survivor signatures. I was told by the receptionist that she, herself, attended high school with one of the survivors in IND.
Michael Cundiff
NV, USA |
Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
Username: jerauf
Post Number: 330
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 1:11 am: |
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As far as I know, her interiors were removed before she entered service. So, anything that would have been salvaged would have been boring metal (and I think pretty burnt).
KWDG was scrapped on the spot in 1952. There might be a little Queen Elizabeth action going on there, but not much to see except some metal on the bottom.
I wonder what happened to her interiors. She was kind of an eye-popper if I remember right. |
