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Message |
    
Neil McRae
Member
Username: neil
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 4:48 am: | 
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At this point, even assuming it's still possible, I don't believe the Titanic will ever be raised.
However, does anyone know of any other notable shipwrecks for which there is serious talk of being raised. I know about the Kursk. Are there any others? |
Steve Smith
Member
Username: steves
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:19 pm: |
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Neil -
I don't know of any famous wrecks for which salvage plans are currently under consideration. Many of course HAVE been raised at various points... including the Swedish warship Vasa, King Henry viii's flagship Mary Rose and the Civil War submarine CSS Hunley
As for raising Titanic,as film mogul Lou Grade once famously said, it'd be easier and cheaper to lower the Atlantic.
I think Mussolini did once have a rather large lake drained to salvage two Roman wrecks... but it would take some ego to take on Titanic...
Steve |
Mitchell Barry Hill
Member
Username: iratecabbie
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 6:59 pm: |
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It is not a cheap or easy thing to raise a sunken vessel, and the conservation of historic vessels is always a monumental task, so to be practically salvagable a ship needs to be,
!easy to get at with it being either on or near the surface.
!!In a condition that wont be worsened to a great degree by salvage operation.
!!! Famous enough to draw sufficient visitors to pay for its recovery/aftercare.
With a ship as far gone and deep as the Titanic its never going to be practical to do more than scavenge for small items. If you wanted to raise "A" Titanic I would say look at the Britannic. She is intact and in a lot less water and lies quite close to shore. She would be much easier to work on And though still a grave she had far fewer people die aboard her when she sank.
then when you have raised her put up a big sign saying, "Its pretty much the same ship."
But even if you went down this cheaper way of obtaining a Titanic you are still going to need enormous amounts of money, and that is what salvage is all about.
Even Mussolini's Ego wouldn't run to this one! |
Sean C. Corenki
Member
Username: sean
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 7:50 pm: |
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Hello Mitchell! Your idea is great in theory however there are still far to many obstacles to allow this "easier" salvage operation to occur. The Britannic is'nt as intact as you may think. In fact the bow section is hanging on by a thread so to speak...it was seriously damaged when the ship made contact with the seabed. The ship is also laying on its side and would most likely have to be righted if it were to be raised. Add to this the ship is located in a busy shipping lane and any lengthy salvage operation would disrupt shipping commerce in the area. Add to this Simon Mills (the wrecks current owner}is adamantly opposed to salvaging the ship. I'm afraid she'll probably remain where she is forever. Regards, Sean |
Mitchell Barry Hill
Member
Username: iratecabbie
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:32 pm: |
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I knew about the bow being a bit on the battered side, i didn't know she was owned though.
I do agree with you on her forever being on the bottom though, been there a long time and there just is not enough money and not enough of a reason to bring her up, that is assuming the owner ever changed his mind. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 10726
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:47 pm: |
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>>I knew about the bow being a bit on the battered side, i didn't know she was owned though.<<
This comes as a surprise to a lot of people. Do a long enough search and you could find a legal owner or group of owners for the Titanic. That's why...among other things...RMSTI is referred to as the "Salvor-In-Possession" as they don't own the wreck. All they have is the rights to salvage from it.
Being sunk doesn't take away from the rights to the ship that the owner enjoys. Wrecked warships for example remain the property of the governments that owned them which why they can set up a "hands off" policy and make it stick in court.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Dave Gittins
Member
Username: gittins
Post Number: 2058
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 8:59 am: |
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Those dreaming of salvage should go to
http://www.tricolorsalvage.com
See what was needed to salvage a ship of about Titanic's GRT in just 30 metres of water. Welcome to reality! |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 10734
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:33 pm: |
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Yep...the thing came up in bits and pieces and went strieght to the scrapyard. Bear in mind that the Tricolor was in much better shape then the Britannic despite the damage done that sank her.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Mindy Deckard
Member
Username: ag_outlaw
Post Number: 28
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 9:32 pm: |
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I always wondered if the Andrea Doria could have been raised. |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 8721
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 8, 2005 - 6:25 am: |
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>>I always wondered if the Andrea Doria could have been raised.<<
Not back in the 50's she couldn't be. Had the ship gone down this very day, it's at least hypothetically possible, but it would be such an expensive undertaking that you wouldn't find any salvager willing to take on the job.
Taking on jobs that lead to bankruptcy doesn't go over too well with the stockholders.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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Richard Glueck
Member
Username: richard_glueck
Post Number: 76
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
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The Doria is one of those ships that is still in the public's memory. Michael is right; The technology to lift her in the 50's didn't exist. Even if it had, her machinery and interiors were so severely damaged by sea water, that she would have been fit only for scrapping. A refit would have been pointless. Andrea Doria's modern cache is in the few collectible relics recovered from her interiors. Today, the hulk is breaking up so severely that lifting is an exercise in retrieving rusted scrap metal. Andrea Doria is my prime ship interest, but sadly, I will never be closer to her actual structure than those items displayed at the Peabody Museum and similar museums. |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 2298
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 11:49 pm: |
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The technology existed - witness the raising of of Canadian Pacific's Islander from over 300 feet of water back in 1933/'34, (32-33 years after she was lost)- but the expenses could never have been recouped. The Islander fiasco was fueled by a (probably) non existent treasure, and is a textbook example of the fact that just because one is capable of doing something does not necessarily mean that one should. |
Richard Glueck
Member
Username: richard_glueck
Post Number: 77
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:27 am: |
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Jim, I'd have to question whether open ocean salvage existed at the time. The "Doria" was well over 100 miles out to sea in the Atlantic. The Islander was a smaller vessel iirc. At anyrate, I think we are talking about the same thing, just differing in semantics. Big ship, open ocean, extreme depths, 1956. Retrieving the "Andrea Doria", even if work had begun the following morning, would have yielded an unusable, corroded, and severely damaged ship, beyond hope of redemption. |
Jim Kalafus
Member
Username: jak
Post Number: 2299
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:59 am: |
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>I'd have to question whether open ocean salvage existed at the time
It existed, in the sense that the same means by which the Islander was raised could have been employed at the Doria site had there been a compelling reason to do so. However, it was not practiced, as far as I know, on any lost liners after 1934 and for good reason. The cost would be prohibitive and the reward minimal. Islander was smaller, but deeper (and more severely damaged by the time of her salvage) than the Doria,and had to be pried out of 13 feet of sediment so that cables could be run underneath her. This was accomplished by hard hat divers and diving bells. With SCUBA many of the difficulties faced in '33/'34 would not have been an issue, and if someone had drive enough to raise the funds to do so in 1956, A.D. COULD have been 'walked' into shallower water as the Islander had been. But it would have been pointless to do that. The cost would have been astronomical, the difficulties incredible and the reward insignificant. It was not a case of "no technology" but a case of "no reason to" which kept AD where she was. |
Thomas Ringtved
Member
Username: somebody_new
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 10:11 pm: |
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A friend emailed me this text he found on the internet: (i will hold no responsibility for the content of the text)
Titanic disaster...... again?!?
The Canadian government has behind the public knowledge, received an application from an unnamed british consortium, regarding the permits for naval operation outside the coast of New Foundland, canadian sea territory. The reason for the naval operation are listed as "Scientific shipwreck recovery" although the critics claim that a serious effort to raise the sunken steam liner Titanic is thereby made under the cover of scientific operations. Government officials from the canadian naval authorities states the fact that an application indeed has been filed and are under closer consideration by the board of ethicals, although no further information on the case "Titanic" has been provided to the public. Specialists are speculating in the commercial aspect of raising the sunken shipwreck of one of the most famed ship disasters of modern times, just in time to the celebration of its 100 years since the disaster. Already shortly after the news broke out, conspiracy theoretics are wondering who might have interest in raising the wrecks (as Titanic broke in two parts before sinking) and the company behind the Titanic in those days White Star Line - later Cunard Line, as the company is named today, are listed among several possible contenders in the race of the ultimate Titanic celebration in 2012. One reason for this is because since the company is still alive since 1912, they may still claim ownership of the wreck in case it will be raised. Other names on the list are relatives to the infamous William James Pirrie (aka. Lord Pirrie) 1847 - 1924, who was born in canada, and later became Chairman for Harland and Wolff, the shipyard building the Titanic back then, since the name Sir Richard Mason Pirrie has been named as a possible benefactor.
Specialists states that although the wreck parts is in a bad condition after almost 100 years in approx. 3700 meters of depth, and they suffer from degenerating from bacterias feeding from the hull metals, and thus forming socalled "rusticles", an attempt may not be all unpossible, provided it is done with great caution especially the bow wreck part, since scientific research has shown that it is in a more fragile state than the front end of the wreck, although missing rivets due to rust and poor metal quality, and the depth of the wreck hull parts in the bottom sand territory are listed among several severe obstacles to take in consideration, as also the installation of the inflatable pontons in the hull parts will be difficult, since ordinary scuba diving is in every way unpossible at those depths and the only possible way into the hulls is by submarine robots.
However, A part of the Titanic that is considered to be in a legible state, is the gold, jewelry and diamonds claimed to have been brought onboard the Titanic by its more or less famed passengers on its maiden voyage. The value of these artifacts are considered to be well over 200 million dollars,
an absolutely notable fundraiser for a project, considered to be in the neighbourhood of 500 million dollars, approx. the same amount of money spend on the 1997 box office movie Titanic starring Kate winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, although The Heart Of The Ocean, the necklace worn by Kate Winslet in the movie, never existed in reality, there is still enough noble metal down there to put a smile on every modern capitalists face.
In this case there are many unanswered questions. One thing i am wondering though, is that if they are only performing scientific research in 3700 meters depth, then who needs a permit from the canadians to do so, since that has never been necessary before, i wonder.
Until more facts are uncovered, i only have one major question; Will there be another Titanic disaster........ |
Michael H. Standart
Moderator
Username: mstandart
Post Number: 29468
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 1:31 am: |
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The e-mail is almost certainly bogus. Since Canada is a party to the treaty to protect the wreck, it's extremely unlikely that they would legally sanction any sort of effort to physically molest it.
As to any sort of "treasure" I wouldn't put any stock in it. The passengers on that ship didn't have anything out of the ordinary and even the most lavish treasure, even if it existed, could hardly pay for the costs incurred in locating it, and bringing it up.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon
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