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The Jazz Age or All Roads Lead To Ballyhoo

This discussion on "The Jazz Age or All Roads Lead To Ballyhoo" is in the Amusements & Diversions section; This is the age after The Gilded Age that your momma don't want you talking ...

      
   
  1. #1
    George L. Lorton
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    This is the age after The Gilded Age that your momma don't want you talking about. The Age Of Ballyhoo or Jazz Age was from 1920-30 or from right after the WWI (The Great War). That's right the roaring 20s. Struggle Buggies/Chariots of Sin(Cars) and going to see a man about a dog(gettin liquor) and other fun things like movie stars and petting parties. Women cutting their hair and a rug. Prohibition, That's right when the U.S.A. was drier then the Sahara. Women can vote and do other things if their clever. Valentino, Swanson and Hollywood. Radio. Songs such as 'I'd walk a mile for one of your smiles, We have no Bananas and The Charleston" there ain't nothin finer"(A dance and a song). This topic is for anything about the 20's. Because it's lost, lets find it. We'll start with Speakeasies and Demon Rum and This Side Of Paradise and work from there.

  2. #2
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    Tougher than you think, George.

    I'd walk a million miles for one of your smiles ...

  3. #3
    George L. Lorton
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    After a Million miles, Mamie better be smiling .

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    I wouldn't bet on it, George. Walking a million miles (or even just driving a couple) takes time and - from my experience - the smile on your sons' faces evaporates in the short time it takes to walk from parking the car to getting into the sitting room to greet you. You're lucky if you get a grunted "Hi!" before they vanish into the shower with their mobiles to get ready to go out again. I must have done something wrong ....
    "Hello, darling ..."
    "See you later, Mum..."

  5. #5
    George L. Lorton
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    Monica: "I must have done something wrong ...."

    Naw.....The joys of Parenthood. My daughter never lets me be it morning, noon or night. She's 2 so I enjoy it while I can. She's always smiling about something, usually some mischief she just accomplished that's just guaranteed to make Daddy flip.

  6. #6
    George L. Lorton
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    Did England try to help America enforce Prohibition by policing her boats or did Britain mostly turn a blind eye to hooch(hard liquor)being smuggled into Yankee Land.

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    Surely The United Kingdom would not have been able to enforce prohibition on British ships insofar as the prohibition law had no validity in Britain - a ship at sea being regarded as British territory. What was the situation regarding Canada?

  8. #8
    George L. Lorton
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    Stanley

    Sorry should of been more clear. I meant checking the cargo and making sure that no Hooch was being smuggled in. Although I guess that was a job for the coast guard.

    Canada, Well the Canadian police I bet patrolled the border unless they were corrupt. A lot of People broke the law. No Liquor! A lot of American Cops on the street were a corrupt or be sympathetic to the average drinker. They wanted a drink themselves. I wander how much alcohol disappeared from the evidence locker.

  9. #9
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    Oh Yay! Let's have a 'Charleston' class shall we?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJC21zzkwoE

    George - was that you on the top of the car? I was the one in the band uniform conducting the orchestra doing the 'YMCA' thing. Too bad my back was turned to the camera.

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    Hello George, Yes, I can now see the distinction between enforcing prohibition and declaring goods for customs purposes. I assume the prohibition era would have been good news for British shipping companies, which would presumably have been able to sell alcohol to American citizens once they were outside of territorial limits.

  11. #11
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason why yes it was me in the studio too. Wasn't my partner a dish. She was a looker and hoofer. Whata gal.

  12. #12
    George L. Lorton
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    Yes Stanley fun all around. That was prohibition!

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    Wasn't my partner a dish.
    Dunno, we could only see her legs. She does have nice legs.

  14. #14
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason-

    She was hot to trot and Jazzed to go, trust me. I need to get with Louise Brooks. Now there's a woman. It just that acid tongue of hers

    Where was my hair. It wasn't on my head? You sure are a little guy. I may have work for you in films as a child impersonator. The studio orphan up and got himself killed on set and we need a replacement.

    Thanks for the Clip that was fun People sure were doing crazy stuff back then like spending days at a time on flag poles and other crazy stuff.

  15. #15
    George L. Lorton
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    Stanley: "I assume the prohibition era would have been good news for British shipping companies"

    I bet you it wasn't bad news. I don't know what us yanks were thinking. I guess it seemed like a good idea that quickly back fired like a model T.I guess the U.S. government's philophosy was "Lets make drinking illegal so we can turn all of our citizens into outlaws." Not one of our best decisions.

  16. #16
    George L. Lorton
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    This for the Ladies of the board! Gents can look as well. Some Flapper Fun


    Flappers - The Roaring Twenties.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svvCj4yhYc

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    Prohibition has killed more men
    than Sherman ever dreamed.
    If they cant get whiskey they'll take to dope.
    Cocaine and morphine.
    This ol' country it sure ain't dry
    and dry it's never been.
    Prohibition, i'll say it again
    is crime's money making machine.

    I'll tell you brother and I wont lie
    about what's the matter in this land.
    They'll drink it wet, but vote it dry
    and hide it if they can.
    They'll pitch a party and they'll all get drunk
    and call it society.
    But if they catch you with a pint,
    good morning penitentiary, hey-hey.

    Have you ever woke up on a Sunday morn
    with the snakes all around your bed?
    I know you have- and I have too-
    I know i'd rather be dead.
    The preacher comes around and he gives advise
    and then you have to crawl.
    Cause if he gets to the bottle first,
    he never leaves you none at all.

    Carbolic acid and creosote
    ought to kill any man.
    Some get paralised, some get well,
    some hit the promised land.
    The undertaker has got to live,
    so feed him if you can.
    Prohibition, I'll say it again,
    is crime's money making machine.

    (Prohibition Blues)

  18. #18
    George L. Lorton
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    Now that's a keeper Jim. Thanks for sharing.

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    I'll sing it at the Titanic Mean People's SLumber Party.

  20. #20
    George L. Lorton
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    Thats one party I hope not to be at. Though I'd like to hear you sing Jim.

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    Oh, you are invited. Everyone who put in a guest appearance at the For Women Only thread brawl is invited.

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    Merely as an observation, and with no links the the previous posts, it could be argued that in terms of ocean liner design, the "Jazz Age" might properly be applied to ships built in the 1920s, whereas the most important liners of the 1930s reflected the Art Deco style - these distinctions being art-historic rather than socio-economic!

  23. #23
    George L. Lorton
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    Ah Jim. I guess your right. I'm just a big bad meanie. But you posted in that thread.

    Stanley- Jazz age sounds like the ship for me.

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    Hi Stanley, didn't the Normandie of 1932 sort-of bridge the gap between the Jazz age and the Art-Deco periods stylistically?

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    Hey Jim, if you bring along your harmonica, I'll bring my guitar and Easy-Bake Oven. George, you're bringing margaritas courtesy of the Snoopy Snow Cone Machine ~Ok? Then, we can all eat, drink, and be merry at the party.

  26. #26
    George L. Lorton
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    Snoopy Snow Cone Machine, I remember having one of these. Snooparitas coming up. We'll drink 'em out of the little pointed cups.

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    Huh? In the UK, we don't have a clue about all this. We do, however, have the ability to do just do dinner.

  28. #28
    George L. Lorton
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    That works just fine too, Monica. No Snoopy Snow Cone Machines or Easy-bake-Ovens. I take it.

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    George, did you know it was my birthday tomorrow and devised this thread as a present? This is my decade of choice (to visit, not live in, as we've discussed). I collect 1920s vintage clothing and odds and ends, drink the classic cocktails of the era, and have been known to dance the Charleston to the point that I was once given a bloody nose because I refused to stop (entirely inadvertantly, I might add - a crash tackle gone wrong, and the perpetrator still apologises from time to time). Come round to my place and you'll probably be offered a White Lady cocktail as the Califorian Ramblers play in the background.

    Regarding terms for the decor of the era, it depends a bit on how you're defining "Art Deco". As a design movement it's quite broadly described, with various identifiable strains within it - partly because it did not develop as a set of philosophical or artistic principles clearly expounded by a group of proponents. The closest you get is the group of French artists who formed La Société des artistes décorateurs after the Universal Exposition of 1900. You can see its main elements emerging all the way back to the teens and even beforehand, although "High Art Deco" is said to have peaked in 1925 with the Exposition Internationale des Arts Décoratifs et Industriels Modernes. This exhibition gave the name "Art Deco" to the movement, although the term itself didn't come into use until the late 1960s through Bevis Hillier - before that, it went by several names (including "Jazz modern" or "Jazz style").

    Streamline Moderne (an Art Deco style) is what many people associate with the Art Deco look of the 1930s (including liners), although it had its origins in the 20s and continued into the 30s. Personally I like early Art Deco and its use of exotic materials (very anti-democratic of me, I suppose). Chryselephantine statues, rare woods, rich metals and stones...and, in clothing, wonderfully crystal beaded French dresses with Deco motifs like sunbursts and zig-zags.

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    Hi Monica! Here you go:

    Snoopy Sno-Cone Machine circa 1979:
    http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0786/

    Easy-Bake Oven circa 1963:
    http://www.strongmuseum.org/NTHoF/oven.html

    Ah, those were good times. I had a Snoopy machine too George.

  31. #31
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason-

    So you had one as well. They were a lot of work just to get that little bit of slush.

    Inger-

    Happy Birthday.

    I've been wanting to start this thread for awhile. Us Sheiks and Shebas have got to stick together. Enjoy, I know I will. Have a Great Birthday.

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    Hi Inger, I also like the Art Deco look of the 1930's and it's stylistic use of rare woods, intricate and interesting shapes, and in a sense ~ it's simplicity (if that term could even be applied).

    1920's era interior designs make for interesting study because that time was a period of progress galore, and as such, new thoughts about design and function came into being. The more geometric shapes were used, the more Victorian designs quickly fell out of favor. The '20's were a time of struggle between the two before Art Deco won out in the 1930's.

    Much of the mass-produced furniture from this period looks like it just didn't know where to fit in. Some looks like restrained Victorian, a lot of it looks Gothic or Tudor, and some of it looks more geometric and simple.

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    That's just the Berries, George! Not to mention the Ant's Ankles.

    I do like the mass produced pieces as well, Jason - while I'm fond of the interiors that were, for example, displayed at the 1925 exhibition (and my preferences run to the inaccessibly expensive!), or even the sort of proto-Art Deco elements we see emerging in the teens, the Depression era (and beyond) pieces of the 1930s can be both lovely and more accessible. The High Art Deco style that reached its pinnacle in the 1925 exhibition was rather elitist - the 30s saw its democratisation and the wider dissemination of the style.

    I've just purchased a very lovely coral lace and chiffon cocktail dress by Jeanne Lanvin from 1932, so there's a possibility I might be coaxed out of the 1920s. For the odd visit.

    Speaking of the 1925 Exhibition - wouldn't that be an event to attend! The Lalique fountain...Poiret's barges...

  34. #34
    George L. Lorton
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    Inger-

    Inger: "I've just purchased a very lovely coral lace and chiffon cocktail dress by Jeanne Lanvin from 1932."

    Present to yourself? Hope your B-day is the Bee's knees.

    The Depression was soo depressing! Too much for me. Give me the Teens and Twenties. When there was $$$ to spare and folks knew how to have fun. Maybe I can be coerced into one visit to the Depression. Hard Times and of course that old chestnut "Hey Brother can you spare a Dime.

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    Absolutely, George - along with a French made flapper dress c. 1926 (a sort of amaranth cerise shade covered silver beads and sequins). We had a party on Sunday - cocktails on the balcony - and it was indeed the cat's meow.

    I try to be interested in the thirties...really I do. I like some of the Art Deco available then, and of course some of the cinema. But I'm no good at "make do and mend", I'm afraid. I'm much better at jumping into fountains a la Zelda Fitzgerald.

  36. #36
    George L. Lorton
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    Inger

    Glad it was the Cats Meow. Peter Bogdanovich did a movie about a murder in 1924 on Hearst's boat. Thomas Ince got shot because Hearst thought Ince was Chaplin sparking Davies. Oops! I hope Mrs. Ince got a lot of $$$ for losing her husband.

    Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald!!! She was a talented painter, Novelist(when hubby wasn't stealing her idea), Mother{when her daughter wasn't embarrassed of her. I read a book called "Zelda's Place In Paradise." Give it a try if you are curious of Zelda. I love her art work. I wish she had met Frida Kahlo. I'd love to be there to see that.

    Inger:

    I try to be interested in the thirties...really I do.
    I don't. maybe I should. I'm trying to be interested in the turn of the century more. I get depressed when I think of the 30's.

  37. #37
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    Ohp! Time for another dance lesson! This time, it's the 'Fox Trot':

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyOWM6S1ITA

    Enjoy!

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    I have the Zelda bio, George - and it certainly does provide a different angle on her life and relationship with her husband! Particularly disturbing is the analysis of her breakdowns, and the probability she had been misdiagnosed. I agree with you on the paintings - I'd found that earlier writers who mentioned her work tended to be quite dismissive of it (seeming to regard them in the same light as her ballet ambitions), so I was quite suprised when I first actually saw examples of her work.

    The Ince case! Love that movie, The Cat's Meow, even when it takes liberties with the facts...but then, it is "the rumour told most often", not purporting to be the literal truth of the case. The angle that Bogdanovich took went back to Orson Welles, if I remember correctly, and what he claimed he'd heard had taken place on the Oneida. To tell the truth, I'm inclined to think that what was being covered up was not a murder, but rather that Ince had died after a bit of weekend carousing involving prohibited liquor. Although given it was with Hearst, and he had to hide the grog from Marion, that may not hold up. I'm open to persuasion on the subject. There's the Elinor Glyn / Lucile connection that brings us back to Titanica, but I'm not entirely sure that Glyn was actually on board in reality? As much as we can now determine who really *was* on board.

    Partner Charleston, Jason? Or how about some Blackbottom?

  39. #39
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason

    Yay, yippee. Thanks for the link. Thanks to Aaron1912 for editing and posting those great videos on youtub. I was looking at his work last night. In fact I posted a link myself as a salute to the ladies of the board and Flappers in general. I'll be a dance Machine in no time.

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    Hi Inger, we can Charleston while we take a ship to Paris for a bit of sight-seeing and shopping! Shall we?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hs3IZtIeoQ

    Now which ship will we take? Let's see.....

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    But if we must Blackbottom (I'm a Charleston man myself) let's make sure everyone knows how. Now watch carefully.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGPnPHrrZeA

    Tell ya what....I've worn through so many spat straps doing this.....

  42. #42
    George L. Lorton
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    Y'all have fun in ole' Paree. Just watch out for Cardsharps and Con Artistes. "Bon voyage you mean bon voyagia." from Anything Goes.

  43. #43
    George L. Lorton
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    The 'Blackbottom' looks like Fun Jason, Thanks.

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    Tain't nuthin' but waddlin' like a heifer stuck in mud.....

    I must say Blackbottom's some of the funniest stuff I've seen.

  45. #45
    George L. Lorton
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    I bet a farmer saw a heifer stuck in the mud that falls in and gets a black bottom from the mud and thought to himself, That there be the funniest thing I ever saw. The Farmer went to town on market day and started telling his friends and anyone who cared to listen. They started imitating the farmer who would do a funny little dance showing how the heifer struggled before falling in the mud when he told the story and before you knew it a new dance was born.

  46. #46
    George L. Lorton
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    Lets do some word association. When I say Flapper what is the first image to pop in your mind?

    Since I'm absent minded yet I hope well read, reasonably well read I see Zelda Fitzgerald dancing in a fountain or a movie still of Gloria Swanson as Sadie Thompson. Agnes Ayers getting abducted by a sheikish Rudolph Valentino. A psychiatrist would just love to get in my head. I guess because these images were the first things I learned to connect to the word flapper.

  47. #47
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    Ah yes, the Black Bottom. One of my unheralded talents is my ability to dance it without feeling....abashed. I am also the last remaining human under 90 who can dance the Peabody.

    The "Forbidden Dance" of my own youth, ca 1984:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPqhxegO_DM

    and, no, that is NOT me in the video, I swear. A memory so mortifying that an entire generation practices group denial on this very point~ the woman who taught me how to dance this, TO THIS DAY denies knowing how.

    Another, slightly less mortifying, flashback:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49qhmMtPNto

    a dance that was actually fun to do...in its day. Break out your scratched 45RPM copy of Wham Rap and practice both of these. Or better yet, check out this clip (The only one that really suits the coolness level of dance #1 above) from the days when rap was still "hardcore." We used to run this video ENDLESSLY while making....shall we say...derogatory comments.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvkMvfOmHWk

    Snoopy Snow Cone....followed, of course, by the Snoopy Toothbrush, the Snoopy shaped electric toothbrush that, for some reason, adults LOVED giving as a birthday gift. One thing I could not find on YouTube, more the pity, is the commercial for the ultimate disgusting 1970s kid-food accessory- Kiddie Fondue. During the adult Fondue Craze of circa 1974, a toy company came out with a junior version, with which you got a Fondue heater and blocks of weird solidified lard-like glop. This glop melted into pools of piping hot ooze flavored like vanilla, chocolate and strawberry. You then put mini-marshmallows on your mini-Fondue skewers, dipped them, and were soon enjoying a taste sensation that defies description.

    Easy Bake Oven- I recall, fondly, that later versions came with instructions that one should ALWAYS poke holes in the top of the Easy Bake Cherry Pies, lest Junior Homemaker be hit in the face with a microburst of live steam upon cutting into it.

    My own favorite Bad Idea toy from that era was the Junior Rock Tumbler I received on my birthday in 1971. One poured abrasive sand into the hodder, added a handful of pea gravel, pressed "On," and in just 5 DAYS one had a handful of polished gravel just like that found in airport planters the world over. The machine made a low-level but incessant grinding noise, and the rocks and sand a constant, 24/7, dull roar and clatter. My mother endured it for two straight days and then, on day 3, while I was in kindergarten, the junior rock tumbler was "Put Away Until Summer" (My birthday is Sept. 14th, so that was quite a time off) never to be seen again. Equally ill-fated, and a gift from the same uncle, was a Junior Home Spin-Art set. "MAKE SURE THE TOP IS LOCKED DOWN" cautioned the instructions, but at 5 who could read them? Place paint blobs on paper. Press "on." Centrifuge whirls, as protective top- not locked down- flies off, dousing kids, carpet, walls and low flying planes with a water-soluable paint that only 7 or 8 hours of scrubbing by post-angry-blowup mom could easily remove.

    I recently gifted my own nieces with a classic 1970s Bad Idea Girl Gift still available over the counter. String-A-Bead. Just as in my day, the clasps on the plastic carrier that contains the 50,000 mini-beads are flimsy, almost GUARANTEEING hours of fun that, in some cases, can last for decades, beginning the moment that Little Ms Artisan picks up the box upside down and the clasps fail, unleashing a 50,000 bead Niagara.

    >Now which ship will we take? Let's see....

    You will take the Manhattan or the Washington. Sorry for seeming so arbitrary, but a decision had to be made and so I booked you on to the two most popular liners of the era.

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    >Lets do some word association. When I say Flapper what is the first image to pop in your mind?

    Paris Hilton, transposed to an earlier era.
    Olive Thomas.
    The 1922 Hartford High Yearbook essay warning of the Flapper Danger.
    Aimee Semple McPherson.
    Ruth Snyder.

    Red hot mama/ good time mama
    Cute as she can be.
    Rolled down stockings
    and her dress is up above her knees.
    Every boy's ambition rises when she passes by.
    She's got something fascinating
    catchs every eye.
    Any time you want to play around
    You know I'm just the guy.
    Oh, good time mama, I'm your papa,
    and I'm satisfied.

    ______________________________


    She's five foot two weighs 100 pounds
    she can make a jackrabbit hug a hound.
    Rosy cheeks, sweet blue eyes
    she can make a dead man rise and fly.
    _______________________________________________

    We went out the other day
    set down in the dirt.
    Heart got to pumpin' overtime
    burned a hole in my undershirt.

    If you go auto riding,
    brother take no chance-
    when you go out with that girl,
    better wear asbestos pants.
    ______________________________________________

    (Funny how many erection references surface in songs of the 1920s, isn't it?)

    Moonlight parties are all okay
    to do your lovin,' I've heard people say.
    We found something better just the other day.
    It may be a brand new way.
    I took my baby right out in the sun.
    We both got warm and had lots of fun.
    Now we lay in the sunshine all the time
    That Gal She's Killin' Me.


    ...well, YOU AKSED! My subconscious can be a scary place!

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    Sadie's got as little store way down in Caroline.
    Other stores are closing up,
    but Sadie's doing fine.
    Other women wonder how she moves her merchandise.
    When they ask her to explain, she gives them this advice:

    "Go out and get the coin,
    cut your price on tenderloin.
    And give them all a special sale on stew.
    Meat gets older by the hour
    they wont buy it when it's sour.
    If you cant get five, take two.

    Get out and sell your fish
    let them bargain if they wish.
    'Cause after Friday you are really through.
    When it's old they're gonna smell it-
    while it's fresh you'd better sell it.
    if you can't get five, take two.

    You'll not be in the red
    once you learn to use your head-
    and do what all the clever women do.
    You can let them see and feel it,
    just as long as they don't steal it-
    if you can't get five, take two.
    _________________________________________

    Perhaps the most double-take inducing song of the Flapper Era. Who knew that the grocery business could be so laden with double entendre? First time I heard that one, I did a spit-take.

  50. #50
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    When I say Flapper what is the first image to pop in your mind?
    I picture a waif-like female clad in a typical beaded, dancing dress (do we call it a gown?) from the period, doing the 'Charleston'. The beaded strands on the dress are flapping and flying around everywhere creating a glittering blur.

    Of course, my mind isn't from the silent era, it's always a talkin' and singin', so there is music that plays as well while the images are projecting in my mind. Today, the music is similar to this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBK6SyB-9ac

    Be careful, it's terribly mesmerizing and catchy....

  51. #51
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    You know, if one combined the 'Blackbottom' with the 'Cabbage Patch', one already has half the farm going. They make for a winning combination.

    Yay for Mr. T! Be somebody!

    Jim, I wanted a Rock Tumbler really badly when I was young. I finally got one at a garage sale for a few bucks that had hardly been used. My mom allowed me use it only in the garage. The charm of this soon wore off - I thought I was going to have diamonds or something as the final product. I guess not.

    Thanks for the booking! We really must leave the open-ended decisions to you more often. Me being on 'auto pilot', I would have chosen the Olympic, but crossing on an American ship would be a fascinating experience ~ might have better bands and dancing too.

  52. #52
    George L. Lorton
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    Jim-

    Y'all had some crazy toys. We had He-Man and transformers and of course GI Joe.

    The Black Bottom-That Bathtub Gin done rotted their brains. For them to be doing a dance like that.

    Jim>> Every boy's ambition rises when she passes by.<<



    Loved the songs. At least you don't have
    Charleston, Charleston
    From Boston to Carolina,
    Charleston, Charleston
    there ain't nothing finer, then the
    Charleston, Charleston

    That also pops in my head and you thought your subconscious was scary well at least it isn't bland.

    Jason-

    Techno-Charleston fun. Somebody saw Moulin Rouge and will never be the same. Catchy indeed!!! Spectacular, Spectacular.



  53. #53
    George L. Lorton
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    Inger-

    Sorry!!!
    I missed you post. Duh George. Could be Ince had to much liquor and succumbed. I too wonder if Glyn was aboard the yacht as well. Who ever they had playing her was younger then the actual Glyn at that time.

    Zelda-

    Yes, makes you think. I wouldn't want to be in a loony house(Mental Hospital) back then. In some of those recorded interviews it struck me that Zelda seemed just as sane as the Doctor and it was Scott who was a little off in the head. Scott was a bit selfish I thought too. Maybe I'm being too hard, maybe not. Good Book.

  54. #54
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    Hey George, does the Charleston song pop into your head with a distinct spluttering from a certain cat named Sylvester (Merrie Melodies' Looney Toons)? It does for me. Anyone Remember? "Tree for Two" from 1952 had to have made it across the pond.

  55. #55
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    Inger, if the hearsay is true, you must post a recipe for what, in your opinion, you would consider to be the ultimate authentic mixed drink of the jazz age.

  56. #56
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason- I never saw that one. I grew up with Sylvester and the gang too. Ultimate Jazz Age drink for me would be Orange Blossoms. Gin and Orange Juice, it's nutritious.

  57. #57
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    Folks,

    We're trying to remain a PG rated website. Please be more careful in what you post from now on.

    Thanks.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43° 44' 01" N, 79° 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

  58. #58
    George L. Lorton
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    Jason T-

    Oops sorry. If you would like I'll go back and fix that post.

  59. #59
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    No worries, George. Just be careful from now on.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43° 44' 01" N, 79° 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

  60. #60
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    George, I tried finding a clip of that Looney Toons episode online but to no avail. My parents have it on VHS, but they are a thousand miles away from me. Anyway, Sylvester strolls and dances along a fence singing the Charleston. Spike the dog, and Chester the dog are also in this episode I believe. For a lot of people, this might have been their first association with the song - it was for me.

  61. #61
    George L. Lorton
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    Don't worry Jason I'll probably see it soon enough. I got a 2 year old after all. She watches Looney Toons all the time so she's probably seen it.

    P.S. She loves the techno Charleston

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    >You know, if one combined the 'Blackbottom' with the 'Cabbage Patch', one already has half the farm going. They make for a winning combination.

    Consider it done! Twill be the hit of the party circuit.

    >Rock Tumbler...charm ...soon wore off - I thought I was going to have diamonds or something as the final product.

    No- just a handful of polished gravel, but only $95 worth of electricity to create it.

    >I would have chosen the Olympic,

    Dreadful overpriced ugly ship with small cabins, a tacky melange of styles, a paucity of bathrooms and a tendency towards cabbage-based cuisine.

    >but crossing on an American ship would be a fascinating experience ~ might have better bands and dancing too.

    Yes. The termination of the Manhattan and Washington's careers was truly a shame. They, along with the Monarch and Queen of Bermuda, and Nieuw Amsterdam are the only liners of the pre WW2 era I'd travel aboard if given the chance.

    Fitzgeralds- I think that, if one actually lived in their era and the "Roaring 20s" mystique was still 30 years in the future, they would have had the "Yes, you are both talented and attractive- now go away, you are getting on our nerves" effect-through-overexposure that Brad and Angelina have on our generation.

    Now, Joseph Urban, my favorite designer of the era, is the one man who SHOULD have done at least one liner interior and didn't. He had a certain admirable restraint, and even his most flamboyant 1920s pieces did not cross the line into the sort of Carnival Cruises garishness of Ile de France and Normandie.

    Here is the Flapper Peril as spelled out in the Hartford High School Chronicle, June 1922.


  63. #63
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    And more on the 1922 Hartford Flapper Peril:


  64. #64
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    >For a lot of people, this might have been their first association with the song - it was for me.

    Charleston Chews used it as a jingle in the mid 1970s. Still haunts me. Not to be found on YouTube.

  65. #65
    George L. Lorton
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    Ahh Jim, Flappers are fun.
    who ever wrote that Poem
    is a low down bum

    To the Man who wrote To The Flapper.

    What is your beef with the Flapper
    that she should cause you such grief.
    Is it that they scare you with
    the ability to choose
    Are you afraid that you will loose.
    You sir take this advice.
    Stop picking on Flappers and be nice.
    Because Flappers are here to stay
    so be careful before they make you pay.

    George's Poem In Defense Of The Flapper.

    There put that on you peace pipe and smoke it.

    That was fun Jim. I havn't wrote a poem since highschool.

    Warning- do not expose George to poetry because as you see the result is bad poetry

  66. #66
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    And then there's Dorothy Parker's take on the subject:

    The playful flapper here we see,
    The fairest of the fair.
    She's not what Grandma used to be, --
    You might say, au contraire.
    Her girlish ways may make a stir,
    Her manners cause a scene,
    But there is no more harm in her
    Than in a submarine.

    She nightly knocks for many a goal
    The usual dancing men.
    Her speed is great, but her control
    Is something else again.
    All spotlights focus on her pranks.
    All tongues her prowess herald.
    For which she well may render thanks
    To God and Scott Fitzgerald.

    Her golden rule is plain enough -
    Just get them young and treat them rough.

    And on the Fitzgeralds - between Zelda arriving at the party and hopping into the bath, and Scott becoming a very unpleasant drunk, I imagine they could be even more trying than Brad and Angelina. There are some lovely descriptions of them, though - looking as if they'd just stepped out of the sun. Of the two, it was Zelda who made the strongest impression on Louise Brooks when she met them - the "blazing intelligence" of her profile. Dorothy Parker, bless her, at least stood by Zelda towards the end, buying her paintings. I've known so many people say that they think Parker was just too, too unpleasant, and they're shocked when they find out about her civil rights activism and decency towards sometimes difficult friends like Zelda.

    Have you had enough Charlestoning yet? No? If in doubt, there's always "I'm going to Charleston back to Charleston" (currently rattling through my head as I was playing it on the weekend).

    What do I think of in association with flappers? Bead, sequins, maribou and ostrich feathers, velvets and feather weight chiffon...bandeaus and cloches...lame...rouged knees and bathtub gin..."Everything is Hotsy Totsy Now" and "Has Anybody Seen My Girl?"...rolled stockings...Lois Long writing as "Lipstick"...flivvers...hot jazz...

    The psych up song I use at the start of a race is an original recording of the Charleston...later in the race, some of Jelly Roll Morton's music will kick in.

    There's a wonderful photo in the Lowe family collection of Harold Godfrey Lowe in the 20s dressed up for the obligatory costume party on one of his liners - he's makes a rather dashing sheik, and frankly the girl on his arm is more fetching than Vilma Banky. And I'm sure I've mentioned before the photo he took of a group of bobbed, be-rouged and lipsticked young women on the bridge (at least one or two have "flapper" written all over them), wearing officers' caps and jackets and labelled by Lowe "Relief Officers".

    Jason, let me have a think about the ultimate mixed drink of the Jazz Age...I'm partial to White Ladies, but the recipe that emerged in the 30s (the one I use today) was a bit different than the earlier version. I can remember at least one occasion that Louise Brooks was knocking back Bacardi Cocktails (as opposed to the straight gin she'd knock back in later years), but - even though I love run - I'm not particularly partial to this...possibly because it's more difficult to get real Grenadine rather than just Grenadine flavoured syrup.

  67. #67
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    His poetry seems awful mean-
    perhaps he was a closet queen.
    Or maybe just a pasty geek,
    who knew he'd never be a "sheik."

    Four years of school without a date.
    Had left him sullen and irate.
    It was strongly rumored that
    he couldn't even "pet" the cat.

    Yet those poems, bitter, lame,
    were they written by a "dame?"
    Envious of her female mates
    pretty and not cursed by fate

    to look like Will Hays in a wig,
    with mouths too small and ears too big.
    And bloated waists and rippled thighs,
    and inch thick glasses o'er their eyes.

    Who girls abhored and boys ignored,
    except to mock when they were bored.
    And only socialised with others
    on "playdates" set up by their mothers.

  68. #68
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    young women....wearing officers' caps and jackets and labelled by Lowe "Relief Officers".
    Too funny! You know, I have often thought that depending upon how the photograph was taken and if his mouth is shut (I think it always is isn't it?) Lowe himself was quite attractive.


    let me have a think about the ultimate mixed drink of the Jazz Age...
    I'll be waiting.

  69. #69
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    I picture a waif-like female clad in a typical beaded, dancing dress (do we call it a gown?) from the period, doing the 'Charleston'. The beaded strands on the dress are flapping and flying around everywhere creating a glittering blur.
    Ah yes...those dresses that glisten like water! I have two fringed gowns - one too fragile to wear, as it has beaded strands on chiffon that is beginning to give way. The other has no beading, but is a perfectly cut French dress in black crepe with some deep fringing on the back and two long scarfs in front. The fringing is a bit of a flapper cliche - there were certainly fringed dresses, but they weren't the be all and end all - but they do add wonderful movement to a dress. I've just bought another one as a gift for a friend.

    Here's an example of crystal beading, paillettes and Deco influence in one of my dresses. The panels in front are split up to the hips, but they overlap. It's obviously black, but throws off light in peacock colours. As it moves, it makes a rustling sound like shells being tumbled by waves on the shore:

    It has a personality of its own.

    Other flapper dress cliches include feather boas, a filet headress with an aigrette, and the idea that hems spent the whole decade above the knee. Some of my favourite dresses are from the first half of the decade, particularly some of the long tabard styles in beaded velvet.

    My four year old niece got into my makeup bag the other day - I found her sitting on the floor, industriously applying cream blush to her knees. I suppose it went with the glittering rayon dresses she insists on wearing! Thank goodness she hasn't found my bakelite cigarette holders yet.

  70. #70
    George L. Lorton
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    Hi Inger-

    Dorothy Parker-
    God I'm starting to think nobody liked Flappers did they.
    I forgot that Parker always got on with Zelda. I think Parker had the usual gripe that intelligent people have when they are not taken seriously. I think it was hard on her being a woman in a man's world back then and it tended to make her cranky. She didn't have much use for Mr. Fitzgerald.

    Orange Blossoms is still the drink for me. White Ladies sounds interesting though. Straight Gin is to straight for me.

  71. #71
    George L. Lorton
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    Love your poem Jim. At least one of us can make a verse.

    Love your dress Inger. Now thats Flapper Chic.

  72. #72
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    Oh Inger! That is perfect! Very similar to what I had in my head. It's really gorgeous ~thank you for sharing. This one doesn't need the ubiquitous pearl necklace strands, just a nice choker or medium-sized pendant don't you think?

  73. #73
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    Great poem, Jim - an original?

    Glad you like the dress - it's a bit of a favourite. Known as the "Shaky-Shaky" in my circles (title bestowed by my niece), one of my American friends called it a "hoochie mama" gown. You're right, Jason - no pearls with that one! I have some black faceted crystal beads on a long strand wound around twice that go well with it.

    What about the illustrative artists of the period? Any George Barbier fans?

  74. #74
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    An ensemble that needs only a 1930 Cord (introduced 1929) to sustain perfection.

    >Love your poem Jim

    Thanks You should hear the tune....

  75. #75
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    >Great poem, Jim - an original?



    YEARS ago, when I was a wiseas...cracking, wisecracking teen, a friend of mine and I worked with his extremely nice, but definitely middle of the road dont-make-any-waves brother. For some reason, we used to torment said brother by speaking, for hours at a time, in the meter used above and, as a result, one of my seldom demonstrated on ET abilities is my propensity for reeling off bad verse from the top of my head.

  76. #76
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    Yes Jim! A Cord would complete the ensemble nicely. Another option might be a Deusenberg.

  77. #77
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    YEARS ago, when I was a wiseas...
    Uhm, years ago?.....

    You left yourself open for that one.

  78. #78
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    >Any George Barbier fans

    Of course!

    My own taste runs towards advertising art. The 1920s marked a peak, of sorts, in which even ads for mouthwash and toilet seats were produced on a budget that allowed for museum-quality end results.

    In the world of "serious" 1920s art, my humorless side kicks in. I favor the stark work that emerged from Germany and the Soviet Union later in the decade. It is my bi-polar nature manifesting itself: I love lavish ads, but hate the same lavishness in "high" artwork. Films sets should be ridiculously overblown, but real-world interiors should at all times be minimalist. Clothing should be lavish, but hairstyles should be simple...and so on.

  79. #79
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    >Uhm, years ago?.....

    Wisecracking TEEN. Humorless ultraconservative adult.

  80. #80
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    >Clothing should be lavish, but hairstyles should be simple

    Inger's dress with Louise Brooks' hair being a perfect example of why that works.

  81. #81
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    Humorless ultraconservative adult.
    Oohwww. Rawwwight.

    I also enjoy Pierre Brissaud's work. Anyone else?

  82. #82
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    Hey- I have a minimalist guest room decorated with naught but a moderne iron bed and a personally inscribed photo of Nancy Reagan from June 1982. I rest my case.

  83. #83
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    The Flapper Menace. Evil wears a lovely mask....


  84. #84
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    I'm another Barbier fan. Though I prefer Lepape and Benito. Check out their 'Vogue' covers of the 1923-1928 period. The epitome of Deco.

    Cocktails...well, in London, the American Bar at the Savoy would have been packing them in. The bartender (Harry Something, his name temporarily escapes me) published the definitive cocktail recipe book around 1930. The Savoy still has some of the best service in London. And the delicious Bucks Fizz was first mixed at the modish Bucks Club. Champagne and orange juice - the traditional start to Christmas morning in the Williams household...

  85. #85
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    I like your Christmas morning tradition, Martin! Must try that myself this year.

    Here is my all-time favorite movie from the era:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVNcLUE87HQ

    Well, ok, so it's not FROM the era, but it's about the era......uhm.....just humor me ok?



  86. #86
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    Oh yes - George Lepape is fantastic. His Vogue cover of the woman in yellow with the skyscraper background is a favourite of mine:

    http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...28-Posters.jpg

    One of the most perfect representations of the stylised rectangular sillouette of the decade's ideal form.

    As a fan of advertising art, Jim, may I take it you're not adverse to Leyendecker? I think there was a book published not so long ago on his work - another volume I need to track down!

    I was presented last night by my sister's family with a copy of Jazz Age Beauties: The Lost Collection of Ziegfield Photographer Alfred Cheney Johnston - fortunately it was gift wrapped by their mother, so my nephew and niece didn't see all the tastefully posed women adorned in little more than a wisp of lace and some pearls (or, in Louise Brooks' case, a pair of lovely opera pumps and nothing else). Interesting that the author's interest was piqued when someone started selling off a private collection of Johnston's portraits on eBay. Lucile Duff Gordon was given a couple of glowing references, and there were some wonderful early star shots of characters like Barbara Stanwick.

    Martin, is that the Savoy Cocktail Book you're talking about? I agree - it's the classic, and still the one that gets the most use on my mixology shelf (you know...for those days when I'm wondering "what on earth am I going to do with this Absinthe?"). My edition is from the 60s (and has some nifty cartoons), but I understand facsimile editions of the first edition are available and hope to get one.

  87. #87
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    A favorite graphic from the pre-War years, in keeping with the last paragraph above.


  88. #88
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    And another...


  89. #89
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    Jason- this one's for you!


  90. #90
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    ...and more....


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    Another for Jason...

    ...we hoped to get you a Studebaker Scotsman, in Metallic Salmon, as payment for your editorial contributions to my upcoming article, but you'll have to settle for this instead. A poor substitute, I know....

  92. #92
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    Thank you Jim!

  93. #93
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    Lovely Art Deco Graphic for a ship that had not a single "moderne" square foot aboard her!

    The background is a reflective bronze ink.

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    ...and another....


  95. #95
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    FOUND ONE! Here you go Jason-the promised Studebaker Scotsman in Metallic Salmon. With Captive-Air tires (none of those newfangled safety inner tubes) but, don't worry, you won't be going much more than 35MPH if a blowout happens, anyway. So, the 1935 Buick can go back!

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    A chorus line of champagne! I can almost hear a kicky song playing as they parade out.

  97. #97
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    I hear ya Inger!

    Jim, you are toooo much! And to think I won....I'm the winner!....and all that for a sentence I had to have written in 1958.

    For a readable version, click here:

    View Image



  98. #98
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    For all who don't "get the joke" ~ in 1957, terminally ill Studebaker took their full size deluxe car and stripped virtually every last appealing thing off it, leaving nothing but a shell with a no frills engine and not single comfort. It sold for...well...about as much as a bottom line Ford with relatively lots of comforts, so it was a fairly lame attempt to tread water. But, it sold well, particularly in recession-ridden 1958, tapping a previously unknown market~ thsoe who wre willing to pay the same for discomfort as they would for relative comfort, in the name of being "Thrifty."

    And, for the anal-retentive who insists that EVERYTHING be first class, may I present....

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