Titanic forum and community
Results 1 to 49 of 49

Captain Smith's Family

This discussion on "Captain Smith's Family" is in the Captain Edward John Smith section; Hi! I just want to ask you, where EJ and his family lived 1912 and ...

      
   
  1. #1
    Beatrice Kaiser
    Guest
    Hi!
    I just want to ask you, where EJ and his family lived 1912 and the years before? And And how much children had EJ and his wife?
    Love, Bea

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    52
    Hi
    I just read the last thread about the descendants of first class passengers.
    I was wondering if anyone knew about captain smith's descendants, if they had any involvement in titanic research/interviews? or are they reluctant to come into discussion on the matter.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    8,239
    Hello Gary,

    I'm not sure how involved Captain Smith's descendants are in these types of things. Inger may know, as she has researched the crew extensively.

    This thread doesn't belong in this topic area, so I'm going to move it to the Crew Research where it will generate a better response.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43 44' 01" N, 79 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    272
    Jason: A good move. We will follow it closely.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    52
    Hi
    Thanx - so has anyone discovered anything about the smith's involvement in titanic matters?

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    52
    Hi
    As you can tell from above, i posted a message here a long time ago. Has anyone in particular Inger Sheil! as i was told to ask, got any idea whether Captain Smith's descendants have ever been traced and/or participated in Titanic research? Thanks

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi

    Gary Cooper is the expert on Capt. Smith's family history and I believe he has said elsewhere that there are no surviving descendants of his only daughter. Surviving distant cousins, yes.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    4,566
    There are cousins living in Maryland and Connecticut and are related through the Frank and Fred Hancock connection.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Shelley

    There are a lot of distant cousins in the UK that come from the Smith's. Of course they are now several generations removed.

    Regards Ernie

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    6
    Hi there everyone - I have only just joined and this is my first message to you all.I am one of the distant cousins to Captain Smith.My great grandmother Sarah maiden name Smith, born 1959 in Wolstanton Staffordshire was his cousin. Her father was George Smith born 1822 Hanley Staffordshire who was brother to Captain Smith's father Edward born 1807 Hanley Staffordshire.She married my great grandfather John Harris born 1852 Cheadle Staffordshire,they had one son named Frederick born 1888 Hanley who was my grandfather,his son was my father Stuart born 1921 Birches Head Hanley.I was born 1947 Gnosall near Stafford.There you go told you my family tree now, I have researched the Smith family back to Edward Smith born abt 1744 Stafford who married Jane Blakemore in 1760 at Bradely near Stafford.If anyone has any information on the family tree,I would be very gratefull.I have copies of baptisms for George and Edward, so I am sure of the definate connection.Their parents were Edward and Elizabeth who were definately grandparents to my great grandmother Sarah.She was special guest of the Lord Mayor and Lady Mayoress at the showing of the premier Titanic film shown at the Odean Cinema Hanley,in the 50's,she was over 90 years old then; got a photo to prove it!Anyway thanks for your time.Hope to speak to you all again soon.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hello Norma

    I was very pleased to see your post to this site. I have researched the family of George Smith not because of any relationship on my part but as a result of contact with a cousin of yours.

    I have been researching the later generations of the Mason's, the famous pottery family of Fenton, Stoke on Trent. Mark Mason, the grandson of Charles James Mason who patented the famous Ironstone China married your great Aunt, Elizabeth Smith. (Cousin of E.J.) In this connection I was in touch with Elizabeth's great granddaughter, a third cousin of yours, whose illustrious ancestors are the Mason's and also the famous Spode family.

    It was mentioned in passing that your cousins grandchildren were more interested in their connection to Captain Smith than their famous Potter ancestors.

    I was intrigued by this and spent the next six months researching their connection to Capt. Smith which I was delighted to be able to confirm.

    I have a photograph of your great grandmother, Sarah with her elder sister Elizabeth, which I think would be about 1910 - the hats give a clue.

    Since I am a researcher and not a relation, I am not really able to discuss your cousins family without their approval, so I will contact you privately through this site.

    Regards Ernie

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    6
    Hi Eric
    Just received your email re. my third cousins. I was quite confused at first, but now I have read your last post it is becoming a lot clearer to me.Fancy you have a photo of my great grandmother Sarah with her sister Elizabeth.Is it possible to have a copy in exchange for the one I have got of my grandmother at the Odean cinema? I think I have just found the marriage of Elizabeth.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Norma

    Yes, it's incredible that i've got a picture of your gr-grandmother - it's a small world.

    The premier that Sarah attended in Hanley would be the 1953 film 'Titanic' I would think? Almost certain to be in the local paper the 'Sentinel'. Do you have the newspaper article?

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    6
    Hi Ernie
    I have got the photo of the article from the Sentinel offices at Etruria also found more family photos and paperwork on the family tree - I will be in touch again soon

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Norma

    Thanks for emailing the newspaper article and photo of those attending the premier in Hanley of the 1953 film 'Titanic'. Apart from your gr-grandmother, who was E. J's, cousin, I wonder who the other Smith's were who were present? I am intrigued by Midshipman W Russell- Smith? Perhaps Gary Cooper could place him.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    6
    Hi - many thanks for all your help on my ancestor Captain Smith.Ernie luck has given me lots of extra information to add to my Smith family tree.I have been researching the family tree for over 8 years and it's all really exciting to find new information. Cheers Norma

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Witney
    Posts
    726
    As a new member of the group I have been reading the earlier postings with interest. Regarding Mrs Russell Cooke, Captain Smith's daughter, I had always understood that in 1925 she married Sidney Cooke, a stockbroker, and moved into a country house near Witney in Oxfordshire. As far as I know, her grandchildren still reside in the locality. Local people still remember "The Titanic captain's daughter".
    Stanley C.Jenkins

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Stanley

    Your first post - welcome to ET.

    I think on this issue you must be mistaken. Both of Mrs Russell-Cooke's twins died childless.

    Have a look at the detail under the second sub-topic heading 'Capt. Smith's family'

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Witney
    Posts
    726
    Helle Ernie,

    Thank you for the information. Yes, I have read the details about Helen Melville Russell Smith elsewhere on the site and am slightly confused about who the "third generation" family members in Oxfordshire might be - cousins perhaps? I will try to find out a little more.

    Mrs Russell Cooke lived in a Cotswold stone cottage overlooking the green at Leafield, where she died suddenly on 18 August 1973. In her last years she had employed a local lady called Mrs Dore as a cleaner/housekeeper. Mrs Dore once showed me one or two treasured relics including Captain Smith's pocket knife engraved with the legend "EJS 1906".

    I was told that Mrs Russell Cooke rarely mentioned the sinking, at least not to the villagers, although they all seem to have known about the tragic events which had marked her life.

    Sidney Russell Cooke was found shot dead in his office in 1930. There was a police enquiry, but I cannot find any further mention in The Times. It was certainly not a hunting accident.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Witney
    Posts
    726
    Further to the accidental death of Mrs Russell Cooke's husband, it appears that he was cleaning his shotgun by holding the weapon in his left hand, while pointing it towards his stomach so that he could manipulate the cleaning rod. It must have been loaded and went off. Mrs Russell Cooke was too ill to attend the funeral.

  21. #21
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2
    Has anyone ever traced the family history of the wife of Capt Edward Smith? She was a cousin of my grandfather (he told me) but I have never been able to establish the link.

    [Moderator's note: This post, posted in another topic outside of this one, has been moved to here which is discussing the same subject. JDT]

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    78
    I have her parents as William and Sarah Pennington born in Newton in Makerfield, Lancashire. Siblings - Mary, John and Martha.

  23. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2
    The marriage cert of Edward John Smith and Sarah Eleanor Pennington is dated January 13th 1887. He is shown as a Master Mariner aged 37 and she a spinster of 26. Her father, William, was a deceased farmer. What ship was EJS on in 1887?
    The witnesses were Thomas Jones, Joseph Hancock,
    John William Pennington, Mary Anne Pennington and Mary ? ?
    I know about the siblings of Sarah Eleanor and most of their descendants and have gone back to her grandfather but wondered if anyone had worked on a complete tree that I could tie in with my own?
    My grandfather had on a wall a framed case of butterflies and which I inherited on his death. I gave it away to a natural history society but they no longer know where it is! My grandfather told me he had been given it by his cousin the captain of the Titanic. Anybody know if EJS was a collector ?
    Incidentally I also have a direct link with the "City of Benares". My other grandfather, John McMillan, was the commodore of the City Line and had her as his last command before retiring about 1938.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    8,239
    Hello Peter,

    [indent]
    quote:

    What ship was EJS on in 1887?
    According to this information, Edward Smith was Captain aboard three WSL ships at that time; Celtic I, Republic I and Britannic I.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43 44' 01" N, 79 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

  25. #25
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3
    Hi,
    I am a new member and apparently also a distant cousin of Captain Smith but this has never been validated to my knowledge in my lifetime. The information was passed down from my grandmother & her sister, Eileen & Thelma Smith. Eileen was in school when the teacher informed the class about the Titanic disaster, Eileen put her hand up & said "I am related to the Captain of that ship!" for this outburst she was punished but her father wrote a letter to the teacher saying that this was true and we were related. Apparently, The Western Mail did a story back in the sixties about my family's relation to Captain Smith which did prove a link, I have enquired with the National Library of Wales in regards to accessing the archives from the Western Mail but had not received a response yet.
    It would be great to finally know the truth - family legend or actual link??
    If anyone can help provide any further information I would be very grateful.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Melinda

    I've done some research on the Smith cousins - those that were descendants of Captain Smith's Uncle George. You should be able to take your ancestral line back a bit; do you know your gr-grandfather's first name?

  27. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3
    Hi Ernie,
    Thanks for replying so quickly!
    My great grandfathers name was Randall Smith, he married Ada Margaret Lewis and they had four children, Clara Eileen, Stella, Thelma & Sidney.
    Hope that helps!
    Best regards,
    Melinda

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Melinda

    Unfortunately, Smith as a surname is a nightmare to research, although the first name of Randall does narrow the field. Without a lot of detail only available to relatives it is difficult to do any useful research and I think the best I can do is give you details of George Smith's male children who would have been first cousins to Captain Smith. This would at least give you names to work back to, although there is always the possibility of more Smith first cousins from possibly different Uncles. Uncle George had three male children, William Edward, born 1857; George born 1864 and John born, 1867. All these children were born at May-Bank, Wolstanton, Staffs. It is just possible that one of these three children might be your ancestor.

    Sorry that I cannot help you any further.

  29. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3
    Hi Ernie,
    I appreciate the info so thanks very much for that, we've had some trouble tracing back from Randall ourselves but we'll use the names & dates you have provided and if I find anything I will let ET know!
    Melinda

  30. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Hi i recently researched my family tree and have got back to the 1851 cencus where Richard Smith 58 is married to Mary Smith 48.
    They have sons and daughters including my great great grandad Henry.

    Richard was born in Ranton around 1793 and his wife Mary born in Chebsey.

    I read a piece that the Captain of the Titanics grandfather Edward (1775-1838 was married in Ranton to a Elizabeth Tams.

    With Ranton just being a small hamlet then maybe the Titanics captains grandfather Edward was a brother of Richard or some relation.


    Any help appreciated im so excited.

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Kevin

    Looking at the records I have that were provided by Norma Williamson, a cousin of Capt Smith's, three generations removed, although Edward married in Ranton his parents were married in Bradley, Staffordshire. Is that far away? Checking relationships that far back can be very difficult because it's difficult to verify, especially with a common name like Smith.

    Parish Records would be your best bet - do you live near enough for that to be feasible. E.J's gr-grandfather was an Edward Smith born about 1744, who married a Jane Blakemore, born about 1748. Married 27/12/1760 in Bradley.

  32. #32
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Thanks for your help Ernie.
    Ranton and Bradley are both small hamlets very close to each other approximately 4.7 miles with tiny populations .Probably even smaller in those days.
    Any help you or anyone else can give me will be really appreciated can.
    Kevin

  33. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    I suppose im looking for children of Edward Smith the captains Gr grandfather born 1744 or brothers of the captains grandfather as my descendant Richard was born in Ranton around 1793 and his wife Mary born in Chebsey. Chebsey,Ranton and Bradley are all within a few miles of each other.
    The captains grandfather was married in Ranton and my last descendant Richard born Ranton in 1793.

    Its looking likely Richards Father was the Captains grandfathers brother,

    HELP lol.

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Ernie you say Edwards great grandfather Edward was born in 1774 in the above post but the following family tree contradicts this could you give me your view.

    http://enchantedfamily.com/genealogy...d&generations=

  35. #35
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    I have found the following
    Mary Anne
    Birth 1806 [1]
    Gender Female
    Person ID I8380 Enchanted Family Tree
    Last Modified 8 May 2010

    Father Edward SMITH, b. 16 Apr 1775, Stafford, Staffordshire, England , d. 23 May 1838, Stoke Upon Trent, Staffordshire, England
    Mother Elizabeth TOMS, b. 1778, Staffordshire, England , d. 12 Jun 1841, Hanley, Staffordshire, England
    Family ID F335 Group Sheet

    Family U. JOHNSON
    Children 1. William JOHNSON, b. 1835

    Last Modified 8 May 2010


    On the census 1851 My descendant Richard my great,great great grandfather is married to a Mary aged 45.This ties up with the captains grandfather who has a daughter Mary,

    This would mean a Smith would be marrying a Smith.

  36. #36
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    This ties up with the captains grandfather who has a daughter Mary born 1806,

    This would mean a Smith would be marrying a Smith possibly.

    This would make my great great great grandmother Mary .The captains auntie.

    So basically can anyone tell me if the captain had a auntie Mary, daughter of the captains grandad who married a Richard Smith.

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Kevin,

    The tree you highlight obviously has different gr-grandparents. As I said, this is based on information provided by Norma Williamson so I'm not really able to comment on this generation. However, we did independently research subsequent generations and our findings were in agreement.

    I know Norma did her research with numerous visits to the Stafford record office. Parish records are compiled within each of the various individual church records which does narrow the field a bit.

    There are some obvious errors in the tree you highlight, for example he married Catherine Hancock formerly Marsh, a widow on 2 August 1841 in Shelton; not on the date and location on this chart. So it looks like the wrong Marsh on your chart; it gives me no confidence in it whatsoever and I would back Norma's efforts any day.

    Incidentally did you find your Richard on the 1841 census?

    Regards Ernie

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Kevin

    Our post's crossed and I responded to the chart you asked me to comment on. I did not see your subsequent posts until now.

    Norma has on her chart a number of children of Edward and Elizabeth Tams. Edward c (christened) 10/5/07; Mary Anne c 28/5/1809; Jane c 11/9/1816; William c 1/6 1818; Phyllis c 16/9/1821 and George c 1/12/1822. Edward, George, and Jane we have no doubt about.

    There is a chance that your speculation of the relationship could be correct. I think it needs more confirmation though. It's too easy to make assumptions as we saw on the chart you asked me to comment on. Do you have verified evidence of the family connection back to the 1851 census?

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Kevin, I've noticed a problem with the Mary-Anne connection. Mary-Anne was born in Hanley not Chebsey

  40. #40
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Ernie back to the drawing board fo me can you help?
    I need to find Richards father then all could be revealed.I have struggled with access to the 1841 census but i assume he would still be living in Maer as he was the 1851 census.
    Richard is 58 and born Ranton his wife Mary 48 born Chebsey in the 1951 census.

    Son Richard 22
    Son John 20
    Daughter Mary 16
    Son William 12
    Son Thomas 10
    Son Henry 7

    All children born Mill Meece.

    Ernie in answer to your question my family was easy to trace back through my father and all the census from 1901,back to 1851.

    Richard is my great great great grandad,his son Henry my next generation,then his daughter Ann had a illigitimate child Richard my grandad.Then my father Henry Hubert,just stuck prior to 1951.

  41. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Kevin, I have located the 1841 census entry. It's a wonder it was transcribed because like a lot of this census it is extremely faint. The ages differ slightly but that is not unusual.

    father Richard born 1796
    mother Mary 1806
    son John 1831
    son James 1834
    daughter Easter? 1836
    daughter Mary 1837
    son William 1839
    son Thomas 1841

    Henry was not yet born; James & Easter were not on 1851 census. May have died or living elsewhere. All the children were born in Millmeece.

    Census details: Location - MillMeece, Eccleshall

    RG number HO107; Piece 988: Book Folio 14/4; page 2.

  42. #42
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Ernie great work.I really appreciate your help and hopefully the other person will be able to help Its all tieing up a little.

    I now been told by a friend they have seen the marriage certificate for Richard Smith(my grgrgr grandfather) born approx 1793 (Ranton) to Mary Dunn (Chebsey) on 14 July 1828.
    Daughter Mary 16
    Son William 12
    Son Thomas 10
    Son Henry 7

    Going back from this im stuck finding the illusive ranton link with the capatins grandfather Edward to my family in Ranron,but at least we have ruled out somethings now we know Richards wife was Mary Dunn My email for you contact me is [email protected]

  43. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Kevin,

    Formal marriage certificates were not adopted until 1837, I believe, so it would probably be the parish record. It might show the father but there should be witnesses who might be relatives and this could be of help.

  44. #44
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    Been to the register offices today and found out Richards Father was John and his wife Esther christened Richard in Ranton 1793.Richard had two brothers John and Joseph
    Another generation back achieved,

    Also found out whilst Edwards grandfather was from bradeley it was still classed as parish of Ranton during that period.

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Kevin

    Thanks for the update. I was a bit concerned that there were no 'Edward's' in your family tree. They were very strong on family names in those days.

  46. #46
    Gary Preston
    Guest
    Hi, I am originally from Stoke, now living in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I was wondering if anyone knew which church in Wolstanton did Edward Smith marry in? My wife and I were married in Wolstanton and my Mum is buried at another Church there. I don't see any details on the web about the Church's name. Any help would be great. Thanks.

  47. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    638
    Hi Gary

    Edward Smith (Capt. Smith's father) married Catherine Hancock in St Mark's, Shelton on 2nd August 1841. Hanley was previously called Shelton. Not Wolstanton I'm afraid.

  48. #48
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    10
    could a moderator please edit the above post Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 9:50 pm: The date should read 1793.thanks in advance.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    58,188
    Got it corrected for you, Kevin.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •