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Titanics Engines

This discussion on "Titanics Engines" is in the Engine Room Engines & Propulsion Systems section; Does anybody know who designed the Titanic's Engines? What the make and model is? The ...

      
   
  1. #1
    Christopher Allen Carter
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    Does anybody know who designed the Titanic's Engines? What the make and model is? The same with the boilers. i would like to learn a lot about these. do you know of any good sites or books on them? Any information would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

  2. #2
    Brian R Peterson
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    Hi Christopher!

    Here is some information you may find useful about the Titanic's engines and boilers.

    The engines for the "Olympic Class" liners were designed by a team of engineers under the direction of Rt. Honorable Alexander Carlisle and built at the Harland & Wolff foundry shop in Belfast, Ireland.

    These ships, Olympic, Titanic and Britannic, were fitted with two sets of main reciprocating steam engines. Each engine was of the four crank triple expansion type. The primary cylinder of each engine was 4.4 feet in diameter; the intermediate cylinder 7ft in diameter and each of the two low-pressure cylinders were 8.1 feet in diameter with a stroke of 6.3 ft. The balance of valves and cylinders starting forward was:

    Two slide valves with two ports and a common chest were operated by two connecting rods with a crosshead and single links to the low-pressure cylinder. These were connected to the high-pressure cylinder, which contained a single piston valve, two slide valves and immediate and low-pressure cylinder. Finally, there were two further slide valves at the aft end of the engine. All the valves were controlled and run by the Stevenson motion method.

    Each of the main engines crank and thrust shafts were machined by hand at Harland & Wolff and were of 2.3 inches in diameter, the immediate shafts were 2ft 2.5 inches in diameter and the tail shaft was 2ft 4.5 inches in diameter. The crank and cross shafts each had a 9 inch diameter aperture, and the immediate and tail shaft was increased to 12 inches. The tail shafts were fitted on loose couplings so that they could easily be withdrawn for repair through the stern.

    The two sets of engines each drove two steel boss shafts to which bronze wing propellers of 23.6 feet in diameter and when subjected to the 15,000 hp from each of the engines, would then rotate at a maximum speed of 75 rpm

    The exhaust steam from the main engines was used to drive the Parsons turbine used to drive the central solid magnesium-bronze 16.6 foot diameter central propeller. The Parsons engine was designed to take the exhaust steam at 9psi then expand it down to 1lb absolute using a steam condensing plant. The condensing plant was operated at a vacuum pressure of 2 ft 4.5 inches on a barometric pressure of 30 inches. The turbine itself operated with circulating water between 55-60 degrees F. This turned a a turbine rotor 12 feet in diameter consisting of forged steel blades assembled in fans and mounted to a rotor shaft. The blades on this rotor were between 1.6 feet and 2.1 feet in length and were segmented. The length of the cast iron rotor casing from the first to last ring of blades was 13.8 feet. The turbine was unable to reverse, so the central propeller was not in use while the vessel was being maneuvered. A Unique feature of the Parsons turbines fitted on the Olympic Class is that the turbine could be operated with electric power when steam was unavailable. An electric lifting gear on its own power supply was provided for lifting the massive turbine cover for servicing and repair. The turbine rotor alone was weighed in at 130 tons with the entire assembly weighing 420 tons. The rotor shaft was unusually large at 1 ft 8.5 inches, which resulted in a center propeller shaft of 1 ft 10.5 inches. When powered by the 16,000hp turbine engine the center propeller had a maximum speed of 165rpm.

    Here is a simplified five-step description of how the process works:

    1. Steam from the boilers, at 215psi, enters the small high pressure (HP) cylinder, moving the piston in the cylinder.

    2. The steam exits the HP cylinder, and is routed to the next cylinder along, the slightly larger intermediate pressure (IP) cylinder, moving the piston in the cylinder.

    3. The steam exits the IP cylinder, and is routed to the next cylinder along, the much larger low pressure (LP) cylinder, moving the piston in the cylinder.

    4. The steam, at 9psi was then passed to the Parsons turbine that powered the center propeller.

    5. The steam exits the turbine and is then passed to the condensers, where it is cooled, turning it back to water, ready to be passed to the boilers, where the whole process starts all over again.

    To provide the huge amount of steam needed to run the massive engines, each vessel was fitted out with 29 boilers forged and assembled by Harland & Wolff, 24 of which were double ended, at each end of each boiler were three Morrison furnaces for a total of 159 furnaces in all. The 24 double ended boilers were 15.9 feet in diameter and were 20 feet in length. The remaining five were single ended and were 11.9 feet in diameter.

    Engine Stats:

    Weight: 1,000 tons
    Height: 30 feet
    HP Cylinder Bore: 54 inches
    IP Cylinder Bore: 84 inches
    LP Cylinder Bore: 97 inches
    Stroke: 75.6 inches
    Horsepower: 15,000

    I hope this helps with your question

    Best Regards,

    Brian


  3. #3
    Christopher Allen Carter
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    Hi Brian! yes this does help a lot. Thankyou for the great information. It is greatly appreciated.

  4. #4
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    <font face="courier new">Hi!

    A quick glance, out of interest: 75 r.p.m. and 165 r.p.m. were *not* the maximum speeds. Those are the usual speeds expected in service, although in both cases the engines could do much better.

    There were also further differences with Britannic.

    Best,

    Mark.
    Mark Chirnside
    Webmaster: Mark Chirnside's Reception Room, www.markchirnside.co.uk

  5. #5
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    so what kind differenes did they do to the britannic mark

  6. #6
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    <font face="courier new">Hi Nicholas!

    You asked: 'so what kind differenes did they do to the Britannic'

    In terms of the engines, there were a number of changes and technical refinements. Britannic's propelling machinery was more powerful than her sisters', while her propellers were slightly different -- certainly in terms of diameter -- and the boilers' heating surface was enlarged. The main engines had piston valves fitted, instead of the slide valves with release rings seen on Olympic; and an additional bearing was installed in the centre of each reciprocating engine. I wrote an article back in 2002 for Michail Michailakis' website:

    http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/rms_engines.htm

    Best wishes,

    Mark.
    Mark Chirnside
    Webmaster: Mark Chirnside's Reception Room, www.markchirnside.co.uk

  7. #7
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    What is the width of the reciprocating engines engines does anybody know. Does anybody also know How many gallons of water each boiler holds and demensions on the condensing units.

  8. #8
    Brian R Peterson
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    Hi Chris,

    Based on the height, and from photos I have seen of the engines at varying angles, I was estimate they were around 15-20 feet wide at their base.

    Best Regards,

    Brian

  9. #9
    Brian R Peterson
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    Hi Chris,

    Based on the height, and from photos I have seen of the engines at varying angles and considering the LP cylinders were 8.1 ft in diameter, I would estimate they were around 12-15 feet wide at their base.

    Best Regards,

    Brian

  10. #10
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    Thanks for your help with this Brian, I also added some more questions to my post. All info is greatly appreciated.

  11. #11
    Brian R Peterson
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    Hi Chris,

    I can't find any reference to how many gallons the boilers or condensers could handle, however here is a detailed description of their dimensions and operation:

    All the boilers were 15 ft. 9 in. in diameter, the 24 double-ended boilers being 20 ft. long, and the single-ended 11 ft. 9 in. long. Each double-ended boiler had six, and each single-ended boiler three furnaces, with a total heating surface of 144,142 sq. ft. and a grate surface of 3,466 sq. ft. The boilers were constructed in accordance with the rules of the Board of Trade for a working pressure of 215 lb. per sq. in.

    There were two main condensers, having a combined cooling surface of 50,550 square feet, designed to work under a vacuum of 28 ins. with cooling water at 60 F. The condensers were pear-shaped in section, and built of mild steel plates. Four centrifugal pumps were fitted for circulating water through the condensers. Each pump had suction and discharge pipes of 20 in. bore, and was driven by a compound engine. Besides the main sea suctions, two of the pumps had direct bilge suctions from the turbine room and the other two from the reciprocating engine room. The bilge suctions were 18 in. diameter. Four of Weir’s “Dual” air pumps were fitted, two to each condenser, and discharged to two feed-tanks placed in the turbine engine room.

    Best Regards,

    Brian

  12. #12
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    Does anyone has a good place to get the schematics and floor plan of the engine/turbine rooms?

    Thanks in Advance,

    James

  13. #13
    Matt Pereira
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    James, I have been transfering from orignal print outs of the engine rooms and the refrigeration system and the steam lines to the deck plans from this site that was made in microsoft paint and i am adding the extra detail. If you are able to wait I will be posting close ups of the plans from the aft turbine room bulkhead to the forward wall of the forward most boiler room.

  14. #14
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    Sure that would be great.

  15. #15
    Matt Pereira
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    James heres a link to the Tank Top its still a work in Progress and its not 100% accurate due to the template im using isnt exactly percise but it gives a good general idea of how the major refrigeration pipes run and the steam pipes after they come through the forward bulkhead of the Reciprocating Engine room down to where it gets to the Turbine Room (The Pinkish colored lines are the Refrigeration lines)

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...TopResized.gif

    The first side profile that I updated has more than the closeups, I havent had the chance to crop the updated version down yet.

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...leUpdated2.gif

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...itanic1of3.gif

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...itanic2of3.gif

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...itanic3of3.gif

    (Now these I know I cant really copyrite these but I feel I can copyrite the profile plan cause I have made major changes from the Olympic side plan which includes changing the deck layout and adding the forward enclosed promenade deck and like before these are all Work In Progress that I work on when time permits and that I update with new findings.

  16. #16
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    Matt, those are some nice drawings you've done there. Are you by chance doing this for inclusion in the deck plans here?

  17. #17
    Matt Pereira
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    Thanks, I'm not really sure what will come of these plans I have just been doing this in my spare time but if they come out good enough to be included on this website as a supplement to the deck plans here that would be great. Would give others the chance to see a very simple layout of the ship.

    On the full profile view diagram if it could be made to full size like on my computer you can see that each deck from the stoke hold plates up to A deck has the height of the deck from the floor to the deck to show the difference in height at the bow and in the middle and the stern down to general locations such as a rough estimate of where the Emergency Dynamo`s are situated at among other things.

  18. #18
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    You might want to get in touch with Phil Hind about this. I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that somebody else is trying to do something about the ET deckplans. If this is the case, I'm sure he wouldn't mind a helping hand.

  19. #19
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    Great drawings, Matt. Thanks for sharing.

    Mike, you're right; that would be Mark Hopkins.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43° 44' 01" N, 79° 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

  20. #20
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    >>Mike, you're right; that would be Mark Hopkins.<<

    Cool. Those two need to get a drafting room and get together.

  21. #21
    Matt Pereira
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    Well I worked some on the engine room I have the Recprocating Engine room completed minus minor small steam pipes that need to be runned along the side of the hull from Bulkhead between Boiler Room #1 and the Recprocating Engine room to the bulkhead between the Turbine room and the Recprocating Engine room.

    Heres the links to the two new diagrams so far.

    This one is the full plans not croped down to see the detail

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...TopUpdate1.gif

    And heres the croped down one to show the detail in the Recprocating Engine room

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...zedUpdate1.gif

  22. #22
    Brian R Peterson
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    HI Mike,

    I was the other person working on the deckplans, I revised them to make them as accurate as possible with every room and closet labeled, as well as furniture in the public rooms, toilets etc.

    The project has stalled on D-Deck due to mitigating circumstances, but the work I have so far is fantastic :-)

    Best Regards,

    Brian

  23. #23
    Matt Pereira
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    Brian, I thought about doing the upper decks as far as the public rooms and staterooms goes but decided to start with the engine room and spread out to the boilers then the crew spaces on the above decks.

  24. #24
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    G'Day Brian, looks like you can get together with Matt and Mark. Between the three of you, this may be enough to move things along.

  25. #25
    Lajos Ber�nyi
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    Hello!

    Now I make my question here, too, because I see this a frequently saw topic...

    The stroke and the diameter of the reciprocating engines were internal or external measures? If those internal, what are the outside diameters and strokes? /Can I use this informations for my engine-model?/

    Lajos

  26. #26
    Matt Pereira
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    Lajos your best bet is to get one of the engine/turbine room blue prints they have a scale on them atleast mine did that shows you how many feet an item is and can use that to get an estimate. I planned on using that to build a fairly large scale engine room and turbine room and build it all enclosed but with a plexiglass starboard side to allow you to view in. Gonna be a fairly large shadow box you can call it going to use fiber optics for the light wires and all.

    But I recomend getting those engine room plans they will surely help they are alittle hard to read I was using them to draw the refrigeration and steam pipes and alot of the pipes run atop one another

  27. #27
    Lajos Ber�nyi
    Guest
    Thanks, Matt!

    Plexiglass sided engine room?! Amazing!
    I'll build a semi-cutaway model in 1:280 /or better in 1:144/. Some of the pieces of the shell plating will removable, and the interior details /wheelhouse, Marconi room, silent cabin, few of 1st class cabins, GSC, 3rd class open space, 1st class reception, double bottom, and what I can.../ will visible. It will a lot of work.
    So, the engine room plans are correct. I've got floorplan, side view, and the cross section - and some photos of the wreck. Can I find everywhere more plans? Maybe for the pipes and wires? /aft or fore view of the engines/
    Or those are not?

    Lajos

  28. #28
    Matt Pereira
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    You might be able to find more plans but what I have found have been drawn by Bruce, on the Titanic Model website that I have doesnt show the wiring but if you take and look at other Steam ships of the era and look at how their wiring/steam pipes are setup it will give you a general idea cause most steam ships using the same triple expansion engines are going to be simmilar.

    I also desided the plexiglass side cause I didnt want to go cleaning it after i finish it. Thats why I am working on some rough plans using the paint computer program to get a general idea of how I can lay it all out. Im thinking 1/48 scale which would put the turbine compartment and the recprocating engine room compartment at 32" in length and if i do like I was throwing around lately of including the #1 boiler room to include steam pipes im at 39.5". I just need to see how big the engines will be in 1/48" scale if their too small to give the detail I might bump up the scale to a larger scale and then just have to figure out where to display it. If you planned on putting lights on the model your building I would recomend using LED bulbs since they dont burn out as quickly and then use fiber optics. You can take and scrape the fiber optic just right and then glob some clear glue onto it and make a hanging light bulb and it will give off a soft glow like a real bulb of that era.

  29. #29
    Lajos Ber�nyi
    Guest
    Thanks matt for the pipe plan! It's a great work! this is simple logic, or any technical work? Can you post a little bigger version, too? I hardly see that. And how I know the vertical positions of that?

  30. #30
    Matt Pereira
    Guest
    Heres a link to a croped down version that is alittle better to see.

    These arent simple logic details I added to the plans. I used a copy of the "Olympic & Titanic" engine room plans that I got scanned images of that I was working from. Might not be exactly like Titanic but they should be pretty much dead on for the Olympic. If there are any differences in the Titanic it was minor changes.



    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...te1_edited.jpg


    As far as the verticle positions of the pipes. I will try to add those to my profile blueprint that I am working on that I posted above that will take more time cause I have to be careful cause those plans are fairly accurate to scale. But those will be posted though when those are finished.

  31. #31
    Lajos Ber�nyi
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    Thanks a lot Matt!
    This plan is already better. Profile plan? It hears good. I've got the Shipbuilder's plan of the Engine Room, but that isn't show the connections of the pipes.

  32. #32
    Matt Pereira
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    I dont know if you can see the details much but the pipes all on the port side of the Titanic (upper half of the plan) are the refrigerating lines and the ones on the starboard side of the Titanic (lower half of the plan) are the steam lines. I assume those are the steam lines cause they were connecting between the boiler room #1 and the turbine room and then eventually made its way to portions of the steam pipes going into the change over valve in the turbine room.

    Yep the profile plan I showed in earlier links are going to be used to show the major steam pipes from the boiler rooms to the turbine rooms

    Here are the profile plans im going to be using there the same as above but I croped them down more so you can see more details that I have added but the steam pipes havent been added as of yet.

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...Profile1of.jpg

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...Profile2of.jpg

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...Profile3of.jpg

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...rofile4of6.jpg

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...rofile5of6.jpg

    http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...rofile6of6.jpg

  33. #33

  34. #34
    Matt Pereira
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    Thanks Michael, I was trying to figure out why they didnt

  35. #35
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    Do you have the "Enable HTML code in message" and "Automatically activate URLs in message" boxes checked below? If not, that may be the reason.

  36. #36
    Matt Pereira
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    Their both checked under options in the box below.

  37. #37
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    Hey everyone

    I am doing a research paper on Titanic's essential technology. I found some info off an odd website and i want to know f it is all correct

    1. Were there two sets of reciprocating engines with four cylinders each and they were triple expansion?

    2.The ships turbine was it a low pressure turbine and utilized exhaust steam at 9 pounds per square inch form the reciprocating engines to rotate the rotor? Was it 12 feet in diameter, weighed 130 tons ad delivered 1600 standard horse power at 165 rpm?

    3. The boilers, all 24, did they supply steam at 215 psi to the engines?

    I know most of the other things, but if you think I need to add anymore info and or it is incorrect could you please help me find correct info?

    Thanks,
    Taylor

  38. #38
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    Taylor. Everything you want to know about the engines and the overall power plant, and much much more, is given In This Article.

  39. #39
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    two engines and the 3rd one got steam from the others is that not right would someone plz tell how the 3rd one worked again

  40. #40
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    Nicholas,

    That is correct, the 3rd engine, the turbine engine, used the excess steam from the reciprocating engines.

    You may find the following article a nice read:
    http://www.titanic-model.com/article...ureFeb2006.htm
    It explains the boilers and the engines.

  41. #41
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    Modern "steam engines" basically use the same principle of reclaiming energy from the low pressure steam that exhausts from the HP engine (turbine) and sends it through an LP turbine. Today's main engines however combine the motive force of both turbines into one shaft through the reduction gear.

    The Titanic had two HP Reciprocal engines that exhausted to a single LP turbine, all three separate engines connected to separate shafts.

    The Lusitania had two HP turbines connected to a individual shafts as well as two LP turbines connected again to individual shafts what I don't know is if they used a reduction gear on the HP engines or if they were directly connected.

    Sorry if I went off topic, just trying to make sense of the marriage of the different technologies into what we have today which is two turbines through a common reduction gear into one shaft.

  42. #42
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    MODERATORS, AND MEMBERS There appears to be no Thread, for discussion re "BUNKERS" or " COAL". As there seem to be enough Threads, and I may not be aware that this is in fact covered. I would like some advice as to which Thread to use for these subjects.
    Where should I Post for questions, opinions,and information, on bunkers and coal ?
    I thank all who provide valid information. GORDON.

 

 

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