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Harold Bride photos

This discussion on "Harold Bride photos" is in the Harold Bride Wireless Operator section; Does anyone out there have any photos of Harold Bride? I know of only 3, ...

      
   
  1. #1
    Cornelius Thiessen
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    Does anyone out there have any photos of Harold Bride? I know of only 3, and all taken around the time of the Titanic disaster. I understand he was a bit of a recluse when it came to Titanic's fate,so I might be barking up the tree.thanks to those that answer my post....

  2. #2
    Megan brule
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    Cornelius,

    I found this excellent web site on Harold Bride that contains photographs and a biography.
    The web site can be found here:
    http://www.geocities/CollegePark/7958/bride.html

    I hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Megan brule
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    The above link should have said:
    http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/7958.html

    Sorry about that!

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Cornelius Thiessen
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    Megan and Kyrila,thanks very much for posting that Harold Bride link, was great to see those photos and read a little more about Harold.

    That article was the second or third reference I've heard to Jack Philips being found dead in the collapsible, other sources say it is'nt true. I guess thats one we'll never truly know......

  6. #6
    Alex McLean
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    Also stated that Jack and Harold had met before they were appointed to Titanic.
    Still any reference to this?
    My best,
    Alex

  7. #7
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    Sorry, there's been absolutely no proof whatsoever that Jack and Harold ever met each other before the Titanic. That is certainly something I would have loved to have found out as true, but alas, there's nothing to substantiate it thus far. (Not even that oft misidentified "Adriatic" photo).

    As for Jack being found in the collapsible, this originally comes from a comment Harold made in his NY Times interview. He had said that it was Phillips he saw, but considering his state of mind at the time, I would attribute that to more of wishful thinking than any intention to mislead.

    And I had to look at that website again...oh, dear, that's not the best site for accurate information about Harold, I'm afraid. The young woman who put that site up caused rather a stir some years back by claiming a love triangle between Harold, his fiancee at the time, and the woman he eventually married. Which could almost sound plausible, except for the fact that his accquaintance with the two women occurred at two totally different times, not connected with each other.

    Plus, there was the matter of a fabricated diary from Cyril Evans, but that's another matter entirely...

  8. #8
    Christine Geyer
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    Thanks for sharing that link. The one picture that I hadn't seen before is the one in wheelchair from April 18 and I must admit I had never ever recognized him in that one!

    Regards to all
    Christine

  9. #9
    Megan brule
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    Harold Bride confirmed that he and Jack Philips had never met before the Titanic.

  10. #10
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    It is worth noting that the author of this website (to which I inadvertantly contributed the title with a chance remark many years ago) claims to be the reincarnation of Lucy Bride, Harold Bride's wife.

    She is the source for a lot of the innacurate information on Harold Bride and the Marconi operators that is circulating on the internet.

    Christine, I'll have to see if I can dig up some other sources for you on that photo of Bride in the wheelchair.

  11. #11
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    Lightoller also thought that Philips was on Collapsible B:

    "We knew that ships were racing to our rescue, though the chances of our keeping up our efforts of balancing until one came along seemed very, very remote. Phillips, the senior wireless operator, standing near me, told me the different ships that had answered our call. Of these, according to their positions, undoubtedly the Carpathia was nearest and should be up with the position where the Titanic sank, by daylight."

    He goes on to say, "Slowly—oh how slow it seemed—she worked her way towards us. Meantime the boat under us showed unmistakable signs of leaving us altogether. I think it must have been the final and terrible anxiety that tipped the beam with Phillips, for he suddenly slipped down, sitting in the water, and though we held his head up, he never recovered. I insisted on taking him into the lifeboat with us, hoping there still might be life, but it was too late. Altogether there were thirty of us boarded the lifeboat, and later on I counted seventy-five living, apart from those lying on the bottom boards. If a sea got up it was going to take all my knowledge of boat-craft to keep her afloat."

    Lightoller Titanic and Other Ships

    Pat Winship



  12. #12
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    Lightoller might eventually have come to accept one or another of Bride's versions of events and believed that Phillips was on the upturned boat, but he certainly had no first-hand knowledge of this at the time. At the American Inquiry he said: "I think the senior Marconi operator was on the boat and died. The Marconi junior operator told me that the senior was on this boat and died".

    If Bride was the source of that assessment, his own report to the Marconi traffic manager makes interesting reading: "I learned later from several sources that he (Philips) was on this boat and expired even before we were picked up by the Titanic's lifeboat No 12"

    So who actually saw Phillips on collapsible B, if not Bride or Lightoller? Certainly not Gracie, whose accounts make it clear that Bride was the Marconi man who spoke to Lightoller, and that, with regard to the body transferred to boat 12: "Lightoller was uncertain also which one he was of two men he had in mind, but we were both certain that it was not the body of Phillips"




  13. #13
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    Gracie pretty much dealt with the Bride story in his book - fortunately, he delved into the matter very soon after the disaster, before the memories of the participants became hazy. Bride and Lightoller seem to have placed Phillips there on the basis of hearsay from others. From memory, Thomas Whitely was the only one who claimed he saw Phillips there, and Whitely was a bit of a clearing house for gossip. Bride's own reports to Marconi stated that the last time he saw his colleague he was heading aft.

  14. #14
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    Bride varied his story quite a bit. On 20 June 1913, in the civil court, he agreed with Henry Duke, who said, "You were washed off the deck and Phillips was drowned." In the context, Duke may have meant that both the operators were washed off. As he said, "I think it was a sheer accident that you did not share Phillips's fate."

    This version is more in line with his letter to the Marconi company. I fear that Bride's TNYT article put him in an awkward position at the inquiries. The story may well have been embroidered for public consumption and we can't tell how much was added by Jim Speers from TNYT. We end up with various versions of the death of Phillips and the fight with the stoker. Bride later found himself at the inquiries with these tales already in circulation.
    Dave Gittins
    Titanic: Monument and Warning.
    http://titanicebook.com/Book.html

  15. #15
    Jemma Hyder
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    The Bride biography is pretty much ready to go up on "On watch"

    Dave,

    I agree that the NYT article came back to get Bride. It does read as quite dramatic lol.

    As for Bride being a recluse in his later years my sources say it simply isn't true, and that he was quite happy chatting to friends in Scotland where he lived about the disaster.

  16. #16
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    In terms of that NYT interview, I've never viewed it as that completely dissonate in terms of how it fits with the other accounts Bride gave later on. When I read it, I see someone trying his best to give his version of events, but not being able to quite put them together in such a way that it makes sense to the average reader. I do have to wonder if the finished product wasn't a result of Mr. Speer's writerly skills. Maybe a large part of what Harold actually said to him wasn't in those words, but Speers had to put something together by the deadline, and so he took the comments he did get and made it the best little compelling tale he could. It's artistic license in a non-artistic medium, if you will.

    Is there any indication at all that embroidering tales for dramatic effect was part of Harold Bride's character?

  17. #17
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    I've long wondered about Bride's account of the "You are a fool, shut up" exchange with Frankfurt. He gives two different times for it. Why did he give it at all? It reflected badly on Phillips, who Bride was so keen to make a hero of. Did Bride think somebody else might tell it and want to get in first? In the event, nobody else recorded it. It's a pity that we depend on Bride for so much of the story.
    Dave Gittins
    Titanic: Monument and Warning.
    http://titanicebook.com/Book.html

  18. #18
    Parks Stephenson
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    Dave,

    I suspect that during his visit with Bride aboard the Carpathia, Marconi himself encouraged Bride to take an everyday occurance and play it up a little. The Frankfurt, after all, carried a Telefunken set. But, that's just speculation on my part.

    Parks

  19. #19
    Parks Stephenson
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    By the way, in order to answer the original question posed in this thread, the Bride family owns several unpublished photos of Bride. One of the family members has a biography about Bride in the works, which will be your only chance to see these photos. I was privileged to see at least some of these photos, including a full-figure portrait of Bride in Marconi uniform, with cap on his head. And no, I was not allowed to copy it.

    Parks

  20. #20
    Cornelius Thiessen
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    Parks, could you please keep us posted on that Bride biography? Will it be a website? A book? I'd love to see it either way as Harold, along with Mr and Mrs Strauss are my favorite Titanic people.Thanks in advance..

  21. #21
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    Parks, you no doubt know that Telefunken was in effect a Marconi show, but maybe Phillips did not. He may have taken Frankfurt's call sign of DFT to mean a non-Marconi ship. I still wonder why Bride mentioned the matter.
    Dave Gittins
    Titanic: Monument and Warning.
    http://titanicebook.com/Book.html

  22. #22
    Parks Stephenson
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    Dave,

    In 1912, Telefunken was definitely not a Marconi show...Marconi was continually seeking ways to crack what he called the "Telefunken Wall." Could it be that you are thinking of the German company DEBEG, which the British Marconi company had a 45 percent share in? The creation of that company in 1911 was negotiated by Sir Godfrey Isaacs as a way to break the stalemate between Marconi and Telefunken...a rivalry so passionate that Marconi ships would not communicate with Telefunken ships. ("Signor Marconi's Magic Box," Gavin Weightman, 2003)

    Parks

  23. #23
    Parks Stephenson
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    Dave,

    Now that you've got me thinking about it, I believe more strongly than before that Marconi was behind the publicity surrounding the "Shut up!" affair. Please bear with me as I theorise a bit here....I haven't firmed up my thoughts on this yet, but I'd like to throw out a few thoughts for the discussion.

    Upbraiding an operator with a "QRT" or what Bride described as "D...D...D" (the origin of which I still haven't been able to determine) is normally nothing worthy of comment. It's going to happen when you have multiple stations conducting all their business on a single frequency. However, in this instance, it was a point of interest in two inquiries. Why?

    In 1912, Marconi was continuously manoeuvring around his chief rival, Telefunken. DeForest, too, but by 1912, Marconi had DeForest pretty much in hand...Marconi happened to be available to attend the Senate Inquiry into the Titanic disaster because he was already in the States to sign off on the deal that would bring United Wireless into the Marconi fold. An everyday confrontation with a Telefunken ship might just be an opportunity that Marconi thought he could exploit.

    Bride had to have mentioned the exchange with the Frankfurt with Marconi when the Director came to visit on board the Carpathia. Maybe Bride mentioned it as he sought to recall every detail of the event, maybe Bride was worried that Frankfurt would report it...I don't know. The fact is that -- from Marconi's view, at least -- the incident had the potential to make the Marconi operators look bad. Well, maybe Marconi felt that the best defense would be a good offense...he would encourage Bride to bring up the incident publically. There was no need to suggest to Bride that he should fabricate the truth or exaggerate in any way...the corporate animosity that Marconi operators felt toward their Telefunken counterparts was enough to naturally colour Bride's version of events. All Bride had to do was tell the story as he saw it. So, instead of the German operator coming out with a story about how Titanic's operator cut him off from providing assistance, the public would have the Marconi side of the story first, which basically painted the Telefunken operator as not quite competent. And it's always the first story that sticks in peoples' minds.

    I'm not saying this is what happened...I'm coming up with this scenario as I write. There is no direct proof of any of this, save the fact that Marconi saw Telefunken as his greatest rival and that he was constantly looking for ways to undercut it. I extrapolate from this fact and speculate that Marconi himself was the driving force behind Bride's public mention of the Frankfurt incident. Because, as you say, there's no other good reason for Bride to have brought it up.

    I don't know...what do you think?

    Parks

  24. #24
    Parks Stephenson
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    There's not much on the Web in English about the Marconi and Telefunken rivalry, but there are several German-language sources. The best summary that I have found is at:

    http://www.friedewald-family.de/Publ...Telefunken.pdf

    The best English-language summary that I have found is at:

    http://www.marconicalling.com/museum...-i=49-s=0.html

    There may be more...I just did a quick keyword search on the Web to see what can be found there.

    Parks

  25. #25
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    "By the way, in order to answer the original question posed in this thread, the Bride family owns several unpublished photos of Bride. One of the family members has a biography about Bride in the works, which will be your only chance to see these photos. I was privileged to see at least some of these photos, including a full-figure portrait of Bride in Marconi uniform, with cap on his head. And no, I was not allowed to copy it.

    Parks"

    Was this book ever published?

  26. #26
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    I've always wondered how well Bride and Phillips got on during the voyage. Until the disaster they lived in close proximity, often working long hours under a great deal of pressure. Did a friendship strike up between them? What did Bride say about Phillips in later life, if anything? I'd love to know.

  27. #27
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    Hi Anthony,

    One Harold Bride's page here on ET there is a quote in which he mentions Jack (there are more, but this is probably the best for their relationship); 'He was a brave man. I learned to love him that night and I suddenly felt a great reverence to see him standing there sticking to his work while everybody else was raging about. I will never live to forget the work of Phillips during the last awful fifteen minutes.'

    I think it's from his section of Titanic Voices, but I'm not 100% sure.

  28. #28
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    Thanks Carla

    That's certainly a very touching tribute from one work colleague to another.

  29. #29
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    I think there's something to be said about shared experiences to bring people together here

    I wonder, if Jack had survived, if he and Harold would have remained/become friends....

  30. #30
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    Unfortunately, TITANIC VOICES doesn't have an index, so it will take time to find it, having to look page by page.

  31. #31
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    Thanks to Bill Wormstedt and others, an index for Titanic Voices is available online:

    http://home.att.net/~wormstedt/titanic/voices.html

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    I'm an amatuar human relationship studier, but I feel that they did become friends and Jack dying did effect Harold. However this is just one man's opinion!

  33. #33
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    Andrew, the passage quoted by Carla above is actually a small part of the article published in The New York Times on 19 April 1912. It comes to us via a TNYT reporter and should be read accordingly.

    From limited evidence, the pair seem to have been at least on good terms. Bride was willing to get up at midnight in order to give Phillips a break after his long efforts of the previous night. They shared enthusiasm for radio and that sort of thing brings men together, even if they have little else in common.
    Dave Gittins
    Titanic: Monument and Warning.
    http://titanicebook.com/Book.html

 

 

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