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The movie How much is true

This discussion on "The movie How much is true" is in the James Cameron's Titanic (1997) section; Titanic was an excellent movie, but how much of it was true?...

  1. #1
    Cyndi Lovell
    Titanic was an excellent movie, but how much of it was true?

  2. #2
    Mark Bray
    Well, the obvious(ships sinks...hits iceburg..which I am sure you knew) and some of the characters were really on the Titanic like
    Molly Brown
    Benjamin Guggheim(mispelled)
    J. J Astor
    Madeline Astor
    Isador Straus
    Ida Straus
    Bruce Ismay
    Officer (all of them)
    Harold Bride
    Jack Phillips
    I probably missed alot...
    The Carpathia really did pick up survivors.
    Well, most of it is truthful besides the characters:Cal,Rose,Jack,Rose's Mom,and the romance between Rose and Jack was also unreal...though it might have happened to other passengers..that we'll never know. If I am incorrect about any of this...please someone correct me. Glad to help.


  3. #3
    Karen Rock
    The bribing of and subsquent suicide of First Officer Murdoch is also not fact. To have a real person (Murdoch) excepting a bribe from a fictional person (Cal) was in my opinion a terrible injustice to Officer Murdoch as was his suicide. While there were accounts of officers shooting passengers and themselves, there was no concrete evidence (regardless of process of elimination) that it was Officer Murdoch. This man was a real person and no matter how long he has been deceased I don't think you can sully his reputation in a movie no matter how big a Hollywood director you are.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Dear Karen, I couldn't agree with you more. I have never understood why Murdoch (who actually saved a lot more lives on the starboard side than officers in charge on the port side did) often has been rather sinisterly portraid.

    Best regards,


  5. #5
    Tracey McIntire
    Dear Karen,
    I have always been interested in Murdoch, more than the other officers and being of Scottish descent, I have always felt a connection to him. With that said, I have to say that I did not think Murdoch was portrayed badly in Cameron's film. If you recall, he throws Cal's money back at him a bit later in the film, saying "Your money can't save me now anymore than it can save you." I also think that his suicide does NOT sully his reputation. Remember, suicide was often considered the noble thing to do. One eyewitness to the suicide on Titanic (we don't know if it was Murdoch they were speaking about) gave the comment "Now THAT was a man!" The way Cameron portrayed it, I thought it made Murdoch a more sympathetic character. Remember, he kills himself right after he shoots two passengers. He is looking down at the blood on the deck and realizing how he has just been forced to directly kill two people, as well as being responsible indirectly for killing 1500 people (as he failed to avert the iceberg). His great remorse compels him to take his own life. I don't see this as a cowardly act at all. As for whether it was really Murdoch who killed himself, you might be interested to check out George Behes' web site (there is a link from this site) under "The Dalbeattie Defense." It offers some compelling evidence that Murdoch was indeed the officer in question. As far as I'm concerned, Murdoch was a hero that night as he stayed on the ship to the last and tried to save as many people as he could.
    Sincerely yours,

  6. #6
    Cyndi Lovell
    Thank you Mark and everyone else for the info.

    I am new to this Titanic subject but I am finding it most interesting and have learned so much just from the message board. I have a few questions and I am probably sticking this in the wrong place AGAIN
    Was Murdochs body ever recovered? The reason I ask is, if the body was recovered surely there would have been a bullet hole. Were any bodies recovered that did have a bullet hole?

    Was Molly Browns story ever told? I found her character in the movie very interesting and entertaining.

    I see some names on the message board alot of places...Peter, Tracey, Mark, and others. Are any of you descendants of a Titanic passenger?

    In the movie, it gave the impression all the third class passengers died because the gates to third class were locked and there was no way out for them. This part of the movie was the tear jerker for me as it seemed so unfair. Was this part true?

    And last, why was there not enough lifeboats? I certainly hope ships today are not that ill-equipped!

  7. #7
    Elaine Barnes
    Unfortunately, none of the senior officer's bodies were recovered. If they had, it would have saved us a lot of conjecture as to whether or not Mr. Murdoch actually committed suicide. Others have put forth theories that it was chief officer Wilde, and others have theories that it was even Capt. Smith! We will never really know, but that's part of the allure of Titanic. I'm not an historian, but I love this site because people who are historians spend a great deal of time and energy to answer our questions. I, for one, appreciate their responses. Thank you.

  8. #8
    Tracey McIntire
    Dear Cyndi,
    As far as the regulations of the day were concerned, Titanic was actually over-equipped with lifeboats. The Board of Trade requirements were based on a ship's tonnage and not on how many passengers she carried. The regulations had not been revised since (I believe) 1890, when the largest ship was only 10,000 tons. Titanic in comparison was over 46,000, but was only required to carry the same number of lifeboats. Needless to say, after the disaster, this was remedied and is one of the positive things to come from the death of so many people. As for being a relative of someone on Titanic, I am exploring the possibility that I might be related to trimmer William McIntyre, who survived. Thanks for your interest!

  9. #9
    Mark Bray

    Molly Brown's story was told and there is an informative website about her and her home, which is a historic museum now, on the website there are photos for you to view of her in later life along with other points of her life. The website's address is http://www.mollybrown.org/
    I am not related to any Titanic Passengers, that I know of, but if you go to a website called Children of Titanic, you will be introduced to relatives of Titanic Passengers, you can read their stories and hear from people who think they are related to a Titanic Passenger and why. It was started by Kathleen Alice Jordan. Captain E. J. Smith happens to have been her Great Great Grand Uncle and she has proven this with a family tree that adds up. The site allows you to email the contributors(the people who told their stories) and hear more of their story and their relative who was on board Titanic. The address is http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium...9/children.htm
    As far as there not being enough boats, I agree with Tracey. I would like to add that I think that White Star Line thought that it would take up too much deck space. I also think that they were very secure that the ship was "unsinkable" so why would an "unsinkable" boat need lifeboats for all of its passengers........I do not know if the third class were locked in the ship or not. There are different beliefs about this.


  10. #10
    Elaine Barnes
    Hi everyone,
    In regards to the the passangers in third class being locked below decks: I think, from what I've read, that there were probably many gates that remained locked, but there were also gates that some of the stewards opened and directed passengers to the boats. I think with all the commotion going on, the crew probably didn't even think about what was going on down below. From what I've read, there were stewards who told third class passengers that when they finished 1st and 2nd class, they would be loading third class. I don't personally feel that third class was purposefully left below to die. Also, the design of the ship, the fact that many passengers didn't speak English and many of the women didn't want to leave their husbands contibuted to the high number of deaths in third class.When I say the design of the ship, I mean that there were so many decks to ascend, unfamiliar hallways, I'm sure a person could have gotten lost easily. Of course, no lifeboat drills played a very important part. I think, too, Mr. Cameron played to our sensibilities with the scenes of Mr and Mrs Straus, and the Irish lady with her two children. I think you'd have to have a heart of stone not to feel moved by those scenes. That's my 2 cents worth! Thanks.


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