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Manuel Uruchurtu

This discussion on "Manuel Uruchurtu" is in the Passenger Research section; Besides the bio info already on this site, I'm seeking any info on Mr. Uruchurtu ...

      
   
  1. #1
    mike disch
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    Besides the bio info already on this site, I'm seeking any info on Mr. Uruchurtu - 1st Class Mexican passenger who gave up his lifeboat seat and perished.
    He will soon be represented by another "Historical Performer" here at the L.A. Titanica exhibit and, as always, we wish to be as authentic as possible.
    Thanks to all the mavens.

  2. #2
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    He was a mexican politician, very close friend of Ramon Corral, who was vicepresident of Mexico, during a period of the Porfirio Diaz regime, the dictatorship that lasted more than 30 years, exiled in Paris in 1910. Manuel Uruchurtu went to France to visit Ramon Corral and probably Diaz himself, boarded the Titanic on Cherbourg because a relative of Ramon Corral also wanted to return to Mexico and traded Uruchurt´'s ticket of a boat called "France" or "Paris" for one of the Titanic, he was on that time, an active member of the mexican congress, a deputy. He gave up the seat that corresponded to him as a traveller on an official politic visit, besides of being a first class passenger, he gave it up to a woman named Elizabeth Nye, a second class passenger, who pleased a seat and said her husband and son were waiting for her in New York, so Manuel let her go on his place with the only condition that she went to Mexico to tell his wife what had happened with him. She went to Veracruz, Mexico until 1924, 12 years later and narrated Manuel's wife the story with tears on her face.
    It was discovered that Elizabet Nye did not have a husband nor a son when the Titanic made it's only journey in which a mexican deputy perished, while a liar took his place.

  3. #3
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    MANUEL URUCHURTU RAMIREZ was my grand uncle (younger brother of my grand father Gustavo) and I have study his life and the Titanic for the last 30 years

    I wish to share some details of his life

    * Born in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico on June 27, 1872

    * He was the ninth son (of ten) of MATEO URUCHURTU DIAS and MERCEDES RAMIREZ ESTRELLA

    * Married to GERTRUDIS CARAZA Y LANDERO and the had seven kids: two daughters AMPARO and DOLORES and five boys MANUEL, EDUARDO, ARMANDO, LEON and JOSELIN

    * He was a Military, Civil and International lawyer, wrote various books, he had the rank of Colonel (due to his practice in Military Law)

    * As a politician he ran and won four times as member of the Congress (in Mexico)

    * On April 14, 1912 he was on board of boat number ELEVEN due to the fact that he was register as a lawyer, member of the Mexican Congress and Diplomat

    * Mrs ELIZABETH RAMELL NYE, Second Class passenger tried to get on board the boat but was not allowed

    * MANUEL URUCHURTU STEP DOWN FROM THE BOAT AND LEFT HIS PLACE TO MRS RAMELL NYE

    *This was totally confirmed by her and is register in the declaration to the Commission of the US Congress of some of the witness of the CHIVALRY ACT

    [Moderator's note: This message, originally a separate thread, has been moved to this pre-existing thread discussing the same passenger. MAB]

  4. #4
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    He took the Lusitania to England in March 1912

  5. #5
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    Dear Gabino

    Hoping that you still review this magnificent history site, I just want to make some observations about Mrs Ramell Nye

    a)Born on May 27, 1882 in Folkestone, Kent, England

    b)She got MARRIED, December 26, 1904 with EDWARD ERNEST NYE

    c)The had a SON, Maisie, who died in 1906 at the age of nine months

    d)Between 1911 to 1912 she travel to England to visit her parents

    e)In April, 1912, she was going to go back to the US on the Philadelphia steam ship but she was transferred to the Titanic due to the coal strike in Britain

    f)Edward Ernest Nye PASSED AWAY ON MAY 22, 1911 so SHE WAS A WIDOW by the moment of the Titanic tragedy

    g)Some time later, once she went to live in New York, she got married with George Darby (Salvation Army Colonel) and they had only one son, George, born on March 30, 1915

    h)She died on November 22, 1963 at Asbury Park, New Jersey

    Although she might have said that "her husband and son" were waiting her, that DOSE NOT make her a lying person

    Desperation can make you say many things and even more when your life is at risk

  6. #6
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    Hello, Alejandro---

    Please note that gambino noval's message is almost three years old and he has not visited this board since then. He's not likely to see or respond to your message.

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    Please let me tell you some brief things about myself regarding MANUEL R URUCHURTU

    As I said in my previous post (April 20, 2011) Manuel was a younger brother of my grand father (Gustavo) for which it makes a DIRECT FAMILY LINK as my grand uncle

    I being researching and studying his life and the Titanic for the last 30 years

    I am also member of the Titanic Historical Society at Southamton, England

    I have a large documentation about Manuel's life

    In May of 2001, I published an essay (in spanish and translated to english when it was up loaded to the internet) titled "CABALLEROSIDAD, Manuel R Uruchurtu, un mexicano a bordo del Titanic" ("CHIVALRY, Manuel R Uruchurtu, a mexican on board the Titanic")

    This essay refers various facts about the life of Manuel and, specially, his last moments at the Titanic as they were told by Mrs Ramell Nye and some other witness declarations to the US and British Commissions that investigated the Titanic sinking

    Although this essay had some original errors or mistakes, they are all going to be clear in the book that I am writing now and that is pretended to be presented on APRIL 2012 for the 100 Anniversary of the Titanic sinking and Manuel's death

    Is important to take note that my essay HAS BEING TAKEN AS REFERENCE DOCUMENT BY THIS Encyclopedia Titanica and various other authors and investigators on the matter

    I will be posting more information and observation comments about Manuel R Uruchurtu

  8. #8
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    Dear Mark

    I notice that fact and that is why I began using the word "hoping"

    The comment (observation) IS NOT ONLY FOR HIM IS FOR ALL OUR MEMBERS AND FRIENDS

    By the way, I have various documents and photos that I would like to share

    I being trying to up load them but I must be doing some thing wrong because I have not being able to post them

    I have read the instructions to do it but, since english is NOT my native language, some words are confuse to me

    Is there a form that I could get some instructions about it in spanish?

    Best Regards

  9. #9
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    Not that I know of, Alejandro.

  10. #10
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    Thank you Mark

    It would be OK if I use Google translator?

  11. #11
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    Fine by me, but my experience with online translators is that they produce unintelligible results at times.

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    You are right Mark and specially when technical words are use

    I will ask for the help of a good friend that is an expert with computers

    Best Regards

  13. #13
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    Dear Michael (Poirier) and all our distinguished members

    Thank so much for the information regarding Manuel R Uruchurtu and the Lusitania

    To complete your information I let you know, and also to all our members, that according to my research and the information found at the Civil Registration Department (it's the Mexico City Government Office that registers all birth, death, marriage, divorce, etc, certificates since 1857), in his DEATH CERTIFICATE is the following:

    "HE DEPART FROM MEXICO TO EUROPE ON FEBRUARY 20, 1912"

    This was declare by the widow (Gertrudis Caraza Vda de Uruchurtu), through her lawyer Mr EMETERIO DE LA GARZA, to the SIXTH CIVILIAN JUDGE on JUNE 27, 1912

    This trial, known in Mexico as VOLUNTARY JURISDICTIONAL TRIAL, was started and finish in order that the widow could CLAIM her Succession Rights, and also that she could collect the final payment given by the Mexican Congress, as well for other legal claims

    All this information, IN SPANISH, can be seen at the following link:

    http://www.rcivil.df.gob.mx/museo_4.html

    There you will find the photos of the original DEATH CERTIFICATE, as well as some of the documents use to prove that he was on board the Titanic

    Among those documents are three very interesting ones: TWO LETTERS (one to his wife and another to his brother in law) on which he says that HE IS GOING BACK HOME ON THE TITANIC and his LAST TELEGRAPH MESSAGE (sent from Cherbourgh to his brother Remigio Uruchurtu) that reads "EMBARCANDOME" (going on board)

    Best regards to all;

  14. #14
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    Dear Friends

    It seams that there is a problem to make the DIRECT LINK given, at least from the Encyclopidia forum

    I know there is NO problem with the link because I look at it before posting the link, so there are some alternative solutions

    a)Copy the link and view it from a "new open page"

    b)I will try to post, through the CONTRIBUTE section, the Word document on which I have the information given. If I have any problem doing it I will let you know

    Best Regards;

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    I sent an email to the editor of the Encyclopidia but I do not know if he got it

    I put copy to my emails and NEVER GOT THEM

    How could I know if he got it?

  16. #16
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    I've emailed Phil Hind for you, Alejandro, letting him know you're trying to reach him.

  17. #17
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    Thank you so much

    Best Regards;

  18. #18
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    In the massage of April 22, 2011, I posted a link

    I am glad to inform you that the DIRECT LINK posted is now WORKING PERFECT (I just got in to the museum page)

    Hope you visit it, all though is in spanish, all the documents shown are interesting and historically important

    They are photographs of the Death Certificate of Manuel R Uruchurtu and of various letters between different Government Authorities, and of two of his personal letters and of the LAST TELEGRAPH sent by him from Cherburg, France when he was boarding the Titanic

    Best Regards;

  19. #19
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    JUST TO SAY HELLO TO ALL OF YOU AND INFORM THAT I AM HAVING A GREAT ADVANCE ON MY BOOK ABOUT THE LIFE OF MANUEL R URUCHURTU

    PLANS ARE TO PRESENT IT ON APRIL 2012

    I WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED

    BEST REGARDS

  20. #20
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    Alejandro, could you do us a wee favour and avoid posting in ALL CAPS??? It's considered to be SHOUTING on the 'net and doesn't go over very well.

    Hope your book does well!

  21. #21
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    Dear Michael

    Sorry for my error of posting in cap letters, I really did not know that it's considered "shouting"

    I use them very frequent since I use glasses, for reading and writing, and most of the time is better, for me, to use capital letters since I have a better view of what I am writing, specially when there is no option to make bigger letter or darker

    Be sure that I will try to avoid, as much as possible, the constant use of capital letters

    Best Regards;

  22. #22
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    >>Sorry for my error of posting in cap letters, I really did not know that it's considered "shouting" <<

    No majorly big deal. Thanks for your understanding.

  23. #23
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    Dear friends

    Just to let you know that the book, regarding the life and achivements of my great uncle "Manuel R Uruchurtu" is advacing well and quite fast

    I am doing it with, as cowriter, with one of the most prestigious writers in Mexico and Latin America. Her name is GUADALUPE LOAEZA and she has writen many books (from novels to historical and political books), beside the fact that she is also one of the most readed editorial writers in many news papers in Mexico

    Yesterday, Guadalupe and I, had a great interview with the Editorial House that is going to print the book

    I will keep you informed about the advances with this historical novel that we are writing

    Best Regards;

  24. #24
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    Looking forward to reading it. Have you read Dave Bryceson's biography of Elizabeth Nye? I'll have a scan through it to see what mention is made of your great uncle.

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    Dear Inger

    Thank you for your coments

    I have not read the book that you mention, I will look foward to get it an read it

    What I have are various documents from the Mexican Goberment (specially the Congress) and multiple letters between the Mexican Secretary of State (foreing relations), the Mexican Consulate in New York, the White Star Line, the International Red Cross (New York), personal letters send by my great uncle to his wife and his brothers in law, the last telegraph send by him (dated April 10, 1912) to his brother Remigio previous to get aboard, various news papers articles, etc (all this documents of 1912)

    I also have read the declarations at the US Senate made by the sourvivors of the boat No. 11, specially the one made by EDITH LOUISE ROSENBAUM (first class passenger) on wich she declares that "she witness the heroic act" of Mr Manuel R Uruchurtu as well as the fact that she mentions that she knew him on the Cherburg dock and she had a conversation with him previous boarding as in the boat that transport them to the Titanic

    This declaration of Edith Louise Rosenbaum gave the result on wich the US Senate "recognize the heroic act of Manuel R Uruchurtu"

    This is published on the US Senate documents as follow:

    "United States, Congress, Senate ... 62nd Congress, 2nd Session, 20 August 1912. Document 933"

    This acording to the investigation made by Mr Robert Braken, US investigator of the passengers and ship men of the Titanic

    Sorry for any writing mistakes that I can have, english is not my principal language (spanish is my native language)

    Best Regards;


  26. #26
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    Dear Friends

    This is just a brief note reagrding the book that I am cowriting with Guadalupe Loaeza about the life of my grand uncle Manuel R Uruchurtu (first class passenger)

    The book is almost ready and it will be redy for printing next Februry 10/2012 and will be formally presented next April 2012

    The title of the book will be "El Caballero del Titanic" (The Gentelman of the Titanic) and will be of aprox 250 pages

    I will keep you posted

    Best Regards


  27. #27
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    It'd be interesting to read about someone who wasn't British or American, Alejando, though if he was a lawyer, I expect his life might not have been that different. And if the book is in Spanish then I, for one, will struggle a bit with it.

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    Dear Monica

    The book will be original in spanish but, since this is a very interesting matter, specially for the 100 Years Conmemoration, we have being talking with the publishing company in order to publish it also in english and french

    If this is posible, it will be done douring the year but I can not give yet specific dates for it

    Please let me tell you, as well to all our members and friends, that this book is going to be the first one writen in spanish.

    Most of the books are in english, some in another language but no one in spanish until now that, as I have told before, is going to be the first time that a book regarding the Titanic and a passenger is writen in spanish

    There are many notes and articles (news papers and internet) in spanish but never before a book

    I will keep you informed, as well as all our members and friends, about it

    Best Regards;


  29. #29
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    Dear friends

    Just to inform you that next February 4, 2012 History Channel is going to tape an interview, with Guadalupe Loaeza and my self, regarding the theame of Manuel R Uruchurtu and the Titanic

    This special program will be exhibited next April as part of a serie that History Channel is doing regarding Latinamericans aboard the Titanic

    I also have being asked for an interview with NBCUniversal, Telemundo Chicago, on the same matter

    Best Regards


  30. #30
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    Dear Friends

    Just to say hello and to keep you informed

    Today, thursday February 16, 2012, Guadalupe Loaeza and I are giving the final text to the printing company (Editorial Aguilar) regarding the book that is going to be published with the story of Manuel R Uruchurtu and the Titanic

    This text is going to it´s final review, format and, if there are no changes, it will go for printing (rest of February and first days of March) and distribution by the end of next month

    On the other hand I comment all of you that it was a great experience to be with History Channel. They are planing to present the interviews starting next March 15. They will be capsules of two or three minutes under the name of "Latinoamericanos en el Titánic" (Latinamericans aboard the Titanic). They made various interviews with family members of diferent latinamericans that were aboard (some survived and others like Uruchurtu and Argaveitia died)

    Finally I inform you that the number one TV company in Mexico (TELEVISA) is going to make a special program regarding the same theame: Manuel R Uruchurtu and the Titanic

    I will keep you informed about all that we are planing, in Mexico, to conmemorate the Centenial Anniversary of the Titanic

    Best Regards;


  31. #31
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    The story that one of the two Mexicans on board the Titanic, 1st class passenger Manuel Uruchurtu, gave up his seat in lifeboat 11 to 2nd class passenger Elizabeth Nye is a heart-stirring tale of chivalry from a bygone age. There is only one problem with it though - it is NOT a true story.

    I first started researching the life of Elizabeth Nye in 1988. Nine years later I went online for the first time and it wasn't long before I came across a relatively small number of Spanish language websites that all contained the same account of the alleged incident. They claimed that Manuel Uruchurtu had been granted a seat in the lifeboat due to his status as a Mexican Government Official returning from a duty visit abroad. An English lady, named as Elizabeth Nye, was refused entry to the boat as it was already full. She pleaded to be allowed in as her husband and child were waiting for her in New York. On hearing this Mr Uruchurtu ceded his place in the boat to her, asking only that she visit his family in Mexico to explain what had happened. The sites all concluded by saying that it was later found out that Elizabeth Nye had lied as she did not have a family waiting in New York. Those sites that that invite readers' comments have attracted many rude and unpleasant posts about Elizabeth such as 'Elizabeth Nye is a murderer' Regrettably I see comments of that nature have started to infiltrate this forum.

    From the first time that I read the story it just did not sound right at all. For a start, Titanic's lifeboats had not been loaded according to status and no one had their credentials checked prior to entering a boat.
    As someone who had been researching the life of Elizabeth Nye for ten years before I first read of these allegations I was confused as they certainly did not match the character and personality of the woman I had come to know during my research. Yes Elizabeth was a widow in 1912. She had married in 1904 and a daughter born in 1906 had lived for just nine months. Her husband had died in the USA in 1911. The suggestion however that Elizabeth, who was a lifelong Salvationist, had abused the memory of her deceased family and stated that they were awaiting her in New York, was not a story that I and many others were prepared to believe.

    There are many other areas where the allegation is at total odds with the evidence as it was recorded in 1912. Elizabeth had left the Titanic in lifeboat 11 about 0135 hrs by which time it was obvious to all that the ship was going down and the priority was to save the women and children. Would a lady have been refused permission to enter a lifeboat under those circumstances? In a letter written aboard the Carpathia Elizabeth makes no mention of any difficulty boarding lifeboat 11, and no mention of anyone giving up his seat and his life to save her. ("We were put into the lifeboat and pushed off at once. They put all ladies and children in first") Elizabeth's cabin companion Amelia Brown accompanied her to the lifeboat and similarly makes no reference to any difficulty boarding. ("I was bustled to the first class deck and pushed into one of the boats")

    At the subsequent US Inquiry two members of the crew who assisted in the loading and launching of lifeboat 11, Steward Edward Wheelton ("Mr Murdoch told two sailors to jump into the boat and we lowered away") and Able Seaman Walter Brice (Senator Bourne- "Were there any women or children who tried to get into the boat who were unable to do so?" Brice - "Not that I saw sir") were interviewed at some length. Neither man mentions refusing entry to a lady nor any gentleman giving up his seat.

    Another of the occupants of lifeboat 11 was 1st class passenger Edith Rosenbaum (later Edith Russell) who was acquainted with Manuel Uruchurtu. Edith was not called to give evidence at either the US Inquiry or the later UK Enquiry but she was, throughout the remainder of her life one of the most vocal of survivors when it came to the subject of the Titanic. I traced a total of nine articles by, and interviews with her, about her departure from the sinking vessel and in not one of them does she mention Mr Uruchurtu.

    If there had been any truth in the story then it would have surely have become as endearing a part of the Titanic tale as that of Isidor and Ida Straus and not just a tale that only started appearing on websites some 8 decades later. We must ask ourselves why didn't this story appear in A Night To Remember or any other book up until 2008? There is an explanation -it was becoming increasingly obvious that someone had taken the sketchy details of Elizabeth's life and had fitted a story around them. This would have been done at a time when they had no way of knowing that Elizabeth's life was being researched for a biography.
    Nevertheless, I continued to bear the allegations in mind during my remaining research but I never ever came across any fact to even remotely suggest that there might be any truth in them. Elizabeth was a prolific writer and kept in touch with many friends and family members throughout her life. None of them to whom I spoke had any knowledge of her ever visiting Mexico.

    I knew no one at that time in that country who might have been able to help me. (Happily that situation has now changed) The number of Spanish language sites carrying the story proliferated over the years - they all appeared to be copied from each other, each telling the same, devoid of detail, verbatim account. Google 'Nye Uruchurtu' today and it lists a total of over 27,000 sites on which the two names appear together. (This of course includes Titanic sites that show passenger lists)
    After a total of 20 years of research my biography of Elizabeth Nye was published in 2009. As I had not discovered one iota of proof in support of the allegations the book contains no mention of Manuel Uruchurtu.
    On 11 Apr 12 I was contacted by The Reforma newspaper in Mexico City who told me that a new book about Mr Uruchurtu was about to be published. They asked me if I was in possession of any information that would confirm that Manuel Uruchurtu had ceded his lifeboat place to Elizabeth Nye. My reply was that I knew of no facts which would support the story but I knew of plenty which suggested that no such incident had ever taken place and went on to list them. The story was printed the next day by The Reforma under the heading 'Mystery surrounds Uruchurtu gesture' - 'The author of Elizabeth Nye's biography says to be wary of stories circulating on websites regarding Manuel Uruchurtu .....' Happily this article has now started to be repeated on many Spanish language sites.

    On 18 Apr 12 a press conference was held in Mexico City to announce the new book 'El Caballero Del-Titanic'(The gentleman of the Titanic) During the press conference the book's main author, Guadalupe Loaeza, stated that at no time during her research did see see any document or other proof that the Nye/Uruchurtu incident had happened, she had worked solely on information supplied to her by the book's co-author Alejandro Garate Uruchurtu.
    The following day was to prove decisive with the publication in The Reforma of a letter sent in by the granddaughter of Manuel Uruchurtu. Translated it read:

    Rejection of Heroic Act

    Dear Editor,
    In the culture section dated 11 April there is a report regarding the book written by Guadalupe Loaeza about Manuel Uruchurtu 'The Gentleman of the Titanic'
    Guadalupe Loaeza has taken advantage of the claim to write a book, which is not based on any facts, surrounding Manuel Uruchurtu my late Grandfather who died in that unfortunate tragedy.
    Maybe with the best of intentions ?? she is referring to how a gentleman gave up his place on a lifeboat to a woman.
    In the article in The Reforma newspaper she states 'his relatives assure us that he gave up his place on a lifeboat to 2nd class passenger Elizabeth Rammel Nye'
    I am the granddaughter of Manuel Uruchurtu and neither my father Armando Uruchurtu (who was 5 years old at the time) or my young aunties Amparo and Dolores Uruchurtu (aged 15 years and 17 years) or anyone else in the family who lived with my Grandmother in the last few years of her life have ever heard of this alleged incident which, had it genuinely occurred, I am sure they would have spoken about openly and proudly.
    The story was made up by another (not so close) relative by the name of Alejandro Garate Uruchurtu who has appeared on television claiming to be the grandson of Manuel Uruchurtu, and whom I believe feels the need to give notoriety (unnecessarily) to the surname Uruchurtu.
    I want to make it quite clear that none of his surviving grandchildren, that is my brother and myself now aged 74, have any proof of that alleged heroic act, although many including my father and aunties spoke of the tragic deaths of his parents Manuel and Gertrudis. We know that Grandfather Manuel was an extraordinary and exceptional person and find it uncomfortable and ridiculous that anyone should try to dramatize his death.
    If you see fit you may publish what I have written here.
    I am comfortable with the article by Erika P. Bucio regarding the 'Mystery surrounds Uruchurtu gesture'
    Gertrudis Uruchurtu
    Granddaughter of Manuel Uruchurtu.
    Such positive testimoney from the nearest surviving relative to Manuel Uruchurtu totally vindicates Elizabeth Nye from any involvement with this story.
    Mr Garate however does not agree. The following day's edition of the newspaper contained his reply to Gertrudis - calling into question her honesty and sense of family honour. He stated where his proof may be found. He claimed that Edith Rosenbaum gave evidence at the US Inquiry that she had met Mr Uruchurtu at Cherbourg and had witnessed his heroic act in lifeboat 11 as she was also in that boat. He also claimed that recognition of the heroic act is contained in 'United States Congress, Senate ... 62nd Congress 2nd Session, 20 August 1912, Document 933' having been located there by Robert Bracken, eminent Titanic researcher. The alleged visit by Elizabeth Nye to Mexico, said on many websites to have been in 1924, he now claimed to have been two visits, one in 1915 and another the following year.

    Document 933 mentioned is a 92 page booklet which is still readily available today. It is an abbreviated version of the UK Board of Trade Enquiry into the loss of the steamship Titanic. It contains no reference to Mr Uruchurtu at all.

    In an effort to clarify his alleged involvement I contacted Robert L. Bracken, Treasurer of The Titanic International Society (and the author of several fine articles on ET) Bob replied that he had never heard of Mr Garate, had never been in contact with him and he knew full well that Document 933 did not contain any 'recognition of a heroic act' He was unaware why his name had been used to support Mr Garate's claims.

    The concern that I have about the book written by Guadalupe Loaeza is that she has chosen to write the chapter involving Elizabeth Nye in the first person, i.e. as if it were Elizabeth who had written it. My fear is that this will confuse many readers who will assume that they are reading an autobiographical work by Elizabeth and they will be duped into believing the story is true, as indeed Miss Loaeza herself was.

    Yes, I believe that Manuel Uruchurtu was a hero of the Titanic, but only to the same degree that all the 1,500+ who had to remain on board and face the certainty of imminent death were heroes. Did he compound his heroism by giving up a seat in a lifeboat? No he did not.

    I do not expect Mr Garate to agree of course but I feel sure that he would now, after twenty years of telling his story unchallenged, welcome the opportunity to prove the story he has been telling the Mexican Nation many times through the media there. I invite him now, instead of telling us that he has seen the documents from 1912 which prove his story, to produce to us all copies of those documents so that we may all benefit from them.

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  33. #33
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    With all due respect to the comments made by Dave Bryceson I will like to make the following observations to it:

    Regarding Manuel R Uruchurtu:

    1.- There was ONLY ONE Mexican passenger on board the Titanic: Manuel R Uruchurtu
    2.- This is totally documented in the passengers lists (first, second and third class) of the Encyclopedia Titanica, as well as in all the many other lists that have being published by various investigators, books, articles and sites
    3.- With out denying the possibility that it might be some other(s) passenger(s) who final destination could be Mexico, this might be to the fact that, in those years, the most important Mining Companies were British and there were many English mining workers in Mexico, specially in the center and northern states of Mexico, such as Hidalgo, Coahuila, Chihuahua, Sonora, etc., but none of one, if so, was Mexican

    Regarding to my self and the attached by Mr Bryceson note and signed by Gertrudis Uruchurtu (gran daughter of Manuel R Uruchurtu):

    1.- I have never said or claim in my life that I am grand son of Manuel R Uruchurtu. All the time I have presented my self as GRAN NEPHEW of Manuel R Uruchurtu. My grand father was Gustavo Uruchurtu (1868 - 1933) OLDER BROTHER of Manuel R Uruchurtu. They both were sons of Mateo Uruchurtu and Mercedes Ramírez (my grand grand parents as well of Gertrudis Uruchurtu) and they both had another two brothers: Alfredo (the oldest) and Remigio (the youngest) and who was the recipient of the last communication (telegraph) of Manuel previous boarding the Titanic
    2.- Based on the previous point, you can see that Gertrudis Uruchurtu Marroquí (that is her complete name) and I are directly related by name and blood. She is daughter of Armando Uruchurtu Caraza (one of the youngest sons of Manuel) who was first cousin of my mother Carmen Uruchurtu. The relation between my uncle Armando and my parents was very close not only because they were relatives but also becouse we were neighbors (both families lived one block away to each other)
    3. Probably one of the points that made Gertrudis so angry was that, when my uncle Armando decided to get married again (he was widow of my aunt Minerva Marroquí <Gertrudis mother>) he was totally supported by my mother and family side AGAINST GERTRUDIS WISHES that was against the new marriage of her father. It is presume that her relation with her father was quite cold and distant on his last years, but I can not say if they see each other. What I know well is that my mother and my family side relation was close and frequent until my uncle Armando died
    4.- The note attached by Mr Bryceson has previous notes that have to be clarified:
    a) In April 11, 2012 was published, in the Reforma news paper (one of the most important ones in Mexico) a large interview made to Guadalupe Loaeza (writer of the biographical novel) by the journalist Erika P. Bucio entitled "Hubo Villanos y Héroes" ("There were Villains and Heroes"), regarding Manuel R Uruchurtu story and the book
    b) On that same date (April 11, 2012) and in the same journal was another article signed by the same journalist (Erika P. Bucio) entitled "Envuelve misterio al gesto de Uruchurtu" ("Mystery involves the gesture (act) of Uruchurtu")
    c) In April 13 was published, in the same journal, the replay signed by me to the journalis Erika P Bucio on wich I gave her the relation of all the FAMILY AND PUBLIC DOCUMENTS that support the story of Manuel R Uruchurtu
    d) In April 18 were published, in the same journal (Reforma), one article (signed by the journalist Oscar Cid de León) entitled "Resaltan el gesto de Manuel Uruchurtu" (The gesture (act) Manuel Uruchurtu is emphasize")
    e) In the same date is published (in spanish) the letter of Gertrudis Uruchurtu (ONLY DOCUMENT mentioned and attached by Mr Bryceson)
    f) In this same date I send a letter to the journalist editor replying the letter of Gertrudis Uruchurtu and was published (my letter) in April 23, 2012 on wich I refute the arguments given by Gertrudis; I also give the relation of the back up documents and support the story of his grand father and grand uncle of mine; I also mention the close relation between his father and my mother an uncles (brothers and sisters of my mother) making clear that Gertrudis NEVER REPLY MY ARGUMENTS
    g) In May 2, 2012 the staff of the Reforma journal (no journalist or person signed the note) published a small article entitled "Biografo refuta a Uruchurtu" ("Biographer refutes Uruchurtu") making reference supposed to a letter sent to me and to my nephew Antonio Uruchurtu Aguayo, on which they mention some of the points argued by Mr Bryceson in his reply published in the Encyclopedia Titanica board (dated June 25, 2012). In this matter is very important to mention that neither my nephew Antonio or my self we NEVER RECEIVED SUCH MENTIONED LETTER, so it seams that Mr Bryceson either never send it or he lies about it and, if it was sent to the journal or to my cousin Gertrudis, they never gave it to any of us
    h) Finally in May 4, 2012 was published, in the same journal, my reply to Mr Bryceson in which I again give the relation of all the back up documents and refute his arguments regarding the story of Manuel R Uruchurtu

    Up to date there has being NO NEW CONTACT with my cousin Gertrudis, the journal and/or Mr Bryceson

    Since some of you might want to read all the articles and letters mentioned above (they are in spanish but they can be translated) the link to the journal Reforma is: reforma.com*---*portada

    I just want to finish saying that the story of Manuel R Uruchurtu is REAL AND TOTALLY TRUE and there are many documents to support it such as:

    - Documented testimony of Edith Louise Rosembaum, later known as Edith Rusell, on which she says that "she knew Manuel Uruchurtu in Cherburgh, France, that the both travel on the same boat to board the Titanic and that she witness the act of Manuel at the boat N° 11". Base on that I would ask to Mr Bryceson: if that was not true How did the family got the information more than 90 years ago?
    - All though you comment about the Document 933, US Senate, I reconfirm the information: "Recognition for Heroic Act ... United States Congress, Senate ... 62nd Congress, 2nd Session, 20 August 1912. Document 933". This document was recount by Robert Braken, United States investigator and historian regarding passengers and crew members of the Titanic
    - Trip to Mexico of Mrs Elizabeth Ramell Nye, at the end of 1915, to visit the widow Gertrudis Caraza in the Jalapa, Veracruz. This reunion was witnessed by the General Joaquín Pita, who commented in his Memories that were published in July 1948 in the "El Universal" journal (this journal is the most important and prestige one in Mexico and is more than 120 years old and is being part of the Mexican History)
    - In this same time, Mrs Ramell Nye travel to Hermosillo, Sonora in order to visit Manuel´s mother (my grand grand mother as well of my cousin Gertrudis Uruchurtu). Mrs Ramell arrived to Hermosillo in January 1916 and was received by Antonio Uruchurtu, by my grand father Gustavo Uruchurtu and some other family members. The conversation between my grand grand mother was translated by Mr Carlos Ibarra Uruchurtu (grand uncle of mine) and was related and written by Mr Gilberto Escobosa, Official Chronicle of the City of Hermosillo, Sonora. I think there it might not be any doubt in the official documents related by a historian and chronicle
    - After a profound and complete investigation by the members of the City Hall of Hermosillo, Sonora, they expedite (order and published) an Official Declaration of Manuel R Uruchurtu as Chivalry Hero. This was voted at the City Hall Members and was approved by 21 unanimous votes in May 28, 2010
    The preview document was sent to the State Congress of Sonora, who ratified it by unanimous vote of the Congress members (congressmen) and Declare Manuel R Uruchurtu as Chivalry Hero of the State of Sonora in April 19, 2012, date that they Expedite the Official Document. This Document was sent by the Congress of Sonora to all the State Congress (31) and to the Federal Congress in order to get the National Official Recognition as Hero of Chivalry
    In order to have this approval I repeat once again, this was TOTALLY INVESTIGATED AND REVIEW by this Official Government institutions

    I also do not expect Mr Bryceson to agree, but I also feel sure that he would accept all the information given.

    And one last comment: This story is part of my family since 1912, documented in various ways since 1916 and personally I have more than 30 years that I have investigated and studied the life of my grand uncle Manuel R Uruchurtu as well as the Titanic. I am not the only one who has seen the various documents mentioned here, there are many family members and independent investigators around the world that have done it

    Best Regards;

  34. #34
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    I have read Guadalupe Loaeza article today and she says that SHE HAS DOUBTS but SHE NEVER SAYS THAT THEY WERE FABRICATED

    Also I want to make note that SHE CAN NOT CHANGE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE BOOK since is a register document SIGNED BY ME and is under legal contract signed with the publishing company

    I recommend you to read the complete article, to read the book and, specially to read the INTRODUCTION of it. If you do not read spanish, please get some one to make the translation of it

    Best Regards;

  35. #35
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    Mr Garate is perfectly correct when he says that Manuel Uruchurtu was the only Mexican passenger on board the Titanic. However, I am surprised that his 30 year research into the disaster failed to find that there was a second Mexican National on the ship - a member of the crew. His name was Antonio Ferrary and he was a member of the Engine Department. The listing showing his nationality has been on ET for many years. See: Titanic Engine Crew: Signed at Southampton : Book 2 Mr Ferrary, 33 years, was also lost in the sinking and died an undisputed hero`s death whilst working as a Trimmer in the bowels of the ship.

    I would suggest to Mr Garate that this ET Forum is not the proper place for he and I to continue our dispute which began in The Reforma newspaper in April this year.

    At Post #31 I have set out my reasons why the story of Mr Uruchurtu ceding a lifeboat place to Elizabeth Nye is not a true story. All of the documents I have mentioned are either in my possession or available online. I can produce them to any interested party at any time.

    At Post #33 Mr Garate has listed his reasons for claiming the story is true. He has ignored my invitation for him to produce the documents he says support his case.

    I leave it to the readers to decide for themselves which one of us is telling the truth.

    (PS Mr Garate - you are incorrect when you say that the baby Frank Aks is not mentioned in Elizabeth`s biography. See Appendix #3 on page 136)

  36. #36
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    On 1 Ocr 12 this follow-up article appeared in The Reforma newspaper in Mexico City. (NB: PRI is a Mexican political party)



    Loaeza rejects her novel `Gentleman of the Titanic`

    TITANIC HERO SINKS

    Experts deny that Manuel Uruchurtu saved a British passenger from the ship

    Erika P. Bucio

    The story of the Mexican Titanic hero doesn`t hold water.

    Neither the investigations of the U.S. Senate nor of the British Government about the sinking of the ship in 1912 show any validity or prove any credence that Manuel Uruchurtu saved the life of English passenger Elizabeth Nye.

    Don Lynch, official historian of The Titanic Historical Society, established in 1963, states: “I am not aware of any `act of heroism` recognised by the U.S. Senate”

    Alejandro Garate Uruchurtu, nephew grandson of Manuel Uruchurtu, who has been spreading this story for 30 years, states that the Mexican lawyer gave up his seat to the English lady passenger in the lifeboat and this “heroic act” earned him the recognition of the Upper House.

    Sourced document 933 `Unites States, 62nd Congress, Senate, 2nd Session, 20 August 1912` whose findings are attributed to the investigator Robert Bracken, was not found by REFORMA. Bracken, Treasurer of The Titanic International Society, contradicted Garate Uruchurtu and expressed his surprise to see his name involved in the case. He states “I have never written a word nor found any material on Ramell and Uruchurtu I assure you”.

    The U.S. Senate report states on its website that document 933 is actually a reprint of the British Investigation into the sinking of the Titanic. Lynch confirms “It contains no personal history like that mentioned, neither does it mention the name `Uruchurtu` except in the passenger list.

    Consulted by REFORMA, Mary Baumann of the Senate Historical Office said they had not located any record of such a distinction.

    Garate Uruchurtu insists that journalist Edith L. Rosenbaum, a passenger in first class, gave evidence to have shared a lifeboat with the Mexican passenger. But Rosenbaum was not among the 86 witnesses called to testify at the hearings conducted by the special subcommittee of the `Senate Commerce Committee, April 19th to 25th May 1912.`.

    Lynch confirmed that Edith Rosenbaum, who did not changer her name to Russell until 1918, did not testify in the U.S. Investigation nor in the British one.

    The transcripts of the hearings, covering more than one hundred thousand pages, were published in 1912 as Document 726, Titanic Disaster Hearings before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce, United States Senate. Report 806 of May 28th 1912 contains the findings of the investigation into the causes of the disaster. The transcripts of the hearings in the United States, the research carried out in Great Britain and final reports can be viewed on TIP | United States Senate Inquiry The Senate also published on its website Document 806. At no stage of the investigation are Uruchurtu or Ramell mentioned.

    The name Elizabeth Nye does not appear in the memoirs of Colonel Joaquin Pita who Garate Uruchurtu cites in support of his story. In his account, published on June 30th, 1948 in El Universal, Pita mentions the visit of an American woman who he does not identify, to Gertrudis Caraza, widow of Uruchurtu in Mexico City in 1912. Pita says that he and his son Charles were the only two witnesses at that meeting in which the foreign woman told “in Spanish” how her life was saved thanks to a gentleman, who only after the sinking learned he was a Mexican who had given up his seat in the lifeboat.

    Ruth Freeman, Ramell`s niece, disputes that version in a letter. “My aunt never spoke of such a fact or visited Mexico. She only spoke English.”

    “There were no assigned seats for passengers in the lifeboats,” Lynch explains “It was women and children first. Therefore, I can not imagine how Mr Uruchurtu could have given up a seat”

    According to Pita, Uruchurtu`s widow died of sadness two months after the accident, leaving three children orphaned. The Grandmother actually died four years after the sinking of the Titanic from TB, penniless and leaving five children confirmed Gertrudis Uruchurtu the granddaughter of Manuel Uruchurtu, who has argued that the heroic act attributed to her Grandfather is an invention.

    Garate Uruchurtu assures that there was a subsequent visit by Ramell to `Hermosillo` in January 1916 to meet the mother of the Mexican passenger, Mercedes Ramirez. From that encounter, he claims, are the oral testimonies of their families and chronicles of Gilberto Escobosa, who was the chronicler of the city `Hermosillo at the time” But Escobosa wasn`t born until a year after the alleged visit and was the official chronicler of the city from 1980 until his death in 2007.

    “Escobosa makes reference to when the family made a donation of the `House of Uruchurtu` to the State Government in 1985 (later transferred to the Sonoran History Society” corrects Garate Uruchurtu, who is a member of the Titanic Historical Society based in Southampton, England.

    The British Titanic Society denied the existence of said Society at the port where the liner set sail on April 10th, 1912. “There was never any such society here” replies Brian J. Ticehurst, partner and Southampton resident for 76 years.

    Despite the lack of evidence the Sonoran History Society (SSH) which includes amongst its honorary members Garate Uruchurtu, named Manuel Uruchurtu as `Hero of Chivalry` as a first step towards achieving national recognition.

    Hermosillo made the title official on 22 February 2011 and local Congress agreed on April 18th to send a exhort to the Union Congress.

    Rangel Palafox, treasurer of the SSH and promoter of the distinction since 2009 anticipates that they will ask the new Senators for PRI for Sonora, Ernesto Gandara and Claudia Pablovitch to resume the proposal supported in the last term by Senator Alfonso Elias Serrano and Congressman Ernesto Luke Hopkins.

    But Gertrudis Uruchurtu rejects the attempt to make her Grandfather a hero of the Titanic. “For me it would be embarrassing” she says. “He was the Deputy in charge of the work for El Charnizal on the Arizona border outside of Mexico. This could be because of the famous `heroic act` …

    Loaeza will never again publish `The Gentleman of the Titanic`
    as there is no evidence of the heroic act

    Writer Guadalupe Loaeza has decided not to reprint `The Gentleman of the Titanic` (Aguilar) finding no evidence of the heroic act attributed to Manuel Uruchurtu. She wrote the novel, she admits, based on the testimony of Alejandro Garate Uruchurtu.
    “He has for 30 years been feeding the legend without a single paper” said Loaeza. Of the eight thousand copies of the initial print run, just over half were sold. Although the remaining books are not being removed from sale, she will not participate in any sales promotions.
    But Garate Uruchurtu, who wrote the preface and collects a percentage of the royalties, warns there is an existing contract of five years. “The publisher will have to come to an agreement with me and the author because there are copyrights registered. If they release me from this I can take it to another publishing house.”
    There were attempts by Aguilar to exclude the foreword in order to thin out the book which is almost 300 pages in length.
    “(When) they decided to include my prologue and without changing anything is when I told them (if) my prologue is not included and I`m not in this, I will retract all the details regarding Uruchurtu and will not authorize the publishing” says the PRI.
    Loaeza admits it was a mistake not to consult more sources, including the biographer of Elizabeth Ramell, Dave Bryceson, who has refuted the heroic act.

  37. #37
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    ELIZABETH NYE - MANUEL URUCHURTU
    A FACT UNREAL


    With the number of views to this Manuel Uruchurtu Forum about to go over 2,000 there is obviously a great deal of interest in this subject and I thought the readers might like to know some more about the events between April and October this year that have not appeared in the posts thus far.

    First of all I must express my sincere thanks to all those who have helped me clear the name of Elizabeth Nye from any involvement in the alleged incident with Manuel Uruchurtu. Chief amongst those is Reforma Culture Section journalist Erika Perez Bucio who was the first to set out to determine the veracity or otherwise of the claims about Manuel Uruchurtu. Erika traced my contact details through a BBC website and made the initial contact which was to lead to such a decisive conclusion. In true journalistic fashion Erika`s reporting remained throughout thorough and impartial. I know that she spent many hours painstakingly searching the El Universal archives before eventually finding the memoirs of Col Joaquin Pita.

    My thanks for help and encouragement along the way go to Fumiko in Mexico who has become a firm friend (to the extent that we have exchanged favourite recipes!) Richard Grabman in Mexico. Also to David Geddis Smith in CA for his investigative and translation skills, and to His Excellency Eduardo Median Mors, Mexican Ambassador to the Court of St James.

    I have mentioned before the similarity of the Mexican websites when telling the tale, there is one however that I came across during my research with its own spin on the story. The writer states that Elizabeth Nye had sought to enter a lifeboat that was intended for men only. On a British ship?!?! The writer however fails to explain why, of the 37 persons so far to have been identified as saved in Lifeboat 11, 24 were women and children!

    Following Miss Loaeza`s speech in San Diego on 21 Aug 12 she prepared a video address which when reported on in the Mexican press stated that the Uruchurtu/Nye story as claimed by Mr Garate was a `fact unreal.` I do not know if that is the correct Mexican wording or perhaps a quirk of google translation but it struck me as the most appropriate heading for this post. I do know that at Post 23 Mr Garate was praising Guadalupe Loaeaza as one of the most prestigious writers in Mexico. On 25 Aug 12 his comments on one of the sites reporting her speech included this extract “I was warned by many famous serious writers not to give the opportunity to Guadalupe who is seen in the literary world as a writer of light novels and entertaining to a certain group of readers primarily social in nature.”

    My fears that readers of El Caballero del Titanic might think that they are reading a work by Elizabeth Nye have were woefully short of the mark - it is not just the readers but also a number of book retailers who are advertising the book as `containing the testimony of the woman he rescued` and have the book listed in their Autobiography section. I am grateful to Miss Loaeza, with whom I have been in contact, for her decision not to have any more copies printed beyond the initial 8,000 run.

    This year, co-incidentally, has seen the sale by auction of two identical 1903 black and white photographs of Manuel Uruchurtu each displayed behind an oval photographic mount. The first, signed by Mr Uruchurtu and dedicated to Joaquin and family (presumably Col Pita) sold in Mexico for an undisclosed amount. The second, signed with no dedication, sold in the UK for a sum which exceeded £2,000.

    Antonio Uruchurtu Aguayo is the nephew of Mr Garate and assists his uncle in their endeavours to have Manuel Uruchurtu officially recognised as a Hero of Chivalry in Mexico. Antonio has been quoted on the internet as saying that Manuel`s heroic act was witnessed by Ramon Artagaveytia. A little difficult to see how he gave evidence to that effect as Mr Artagaeytia was also a victim of the sinking! Antonio has also claimed that the memoirs of Col Joaquin Pita contain confirmation of the meeting between Mrs Uruchurtu and Elizabeth Nye. As we now know this is totally incorrect, the Colonel states only that the woman, who he did not name, was American and spoke in Spanish. How, and why the 1912 description of an American Spanish-speaker had by 1980 turned into an English woman who spoke no foreign languages at all is a question I believe only Mr Garate can answer.


    I mentioned at Post 31 that a search then on google produced a total of 27,000 internet sites that mentioned the two names Nye and Uruchurtu. Thankfully that number is now down to 3,000. It will be some time yet though before the misleading story naming Elizabeth Nye disappears from the net.

    Thanks to the enquiries made by The Reforma there is now general awareness that the claims listed by Mr Garate as his `proof` of the tale, a) that the US Senate officially recognised the heroic act - is false. b) that mention of it is made in Doc 933 - is untrue, and c) that Edith Rosenbaum made a statement confirming the act - is another fabrication.

    Mr Garate appears to have made no reply following the Reforma article. The only post-article I have seen came from the Sonoran History Society, which lists Mr Garate amongst their membership, and who are the occupants of the former home of Manuel Uruchurtu in Hermosillio which was bequeathed to the Mexican Nation and allocated to the Society in 1985. Not unexpectedly the Society confirm their belief in the version of the story as told by Mr Garate.

    However, all Mr Garate is left with from his list of documents that he was saying support his story is the memoirs of Col Joaquin Pita as printed in El Universal in June 1948. For the information of all readers a translated copy of those memoirs appears at the next Post.

  38. #38
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    Wednesday, June 30, 1948
    El Universal newspaper, Mexico City
    Memoirs of Col. Joaquín Pita
    Translation into English by David Gaddis Smith, Cross-Border Editorial Services, San Diego, California.

    “The Titanic Disaster and the Heroic, Lifesaving Act, at the Price of His Own Life, of Mexican Lawyer Manuel Uruchurtu”

    During the first part of March 1912 the ocean liner Titanic inaugurated service between European ports and New York. The inaugural voyage was greeted with great enthusiasm, given the luxuriousness and accommodations of the ship, which could be considered the best of the steamers making the voyage between Europe and America. Such was the demand for passage on the ship that it was a coup to get a ticket on the biggest ship of its time. My unforgettable friend Manuel Uruchurtu managed to gain passage, and considered himself lucky to be making what was likely to be an entertaining trip featuring a large and select group of travelers aboard the floating palace.
    The ship’s passage was made with surprising speed until disaster struck in the area of the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. At that moment, the ship’s orchestra was playing the waltz from the operetta “The Merry Widow.” All was happiness and joy, as a festive ritual was taking place to celebrate the ship’s approaching its final destination. Then the terrifying, indescribable collision took place between the Titanic and the mountain of ice that suddenly appeared in front of the ocean liner, cutting the king of the seas in half. When the collision occurred, a large number of the couples dancing in the grand ballroom were thrown into the sea, and the large number of passengers who hadn’t been hurled off began gathering at the lifeboats. Despite the fear produced by the terrible collision, the passengers’ departure from the ship was rather orderly given the anguished circumstances, including that there were not enough lifeboats because there were more passengers and crew than the ocean liner’s owner had calculated. My dear lawyer friend Don Manuel Uruchurtu had managed to escape being thrown into the sea at the moment the ship was cut in half. Wearing a life vest, he managed to make it to the prow of the ship, where the captain was giving orders for saving the lives of the remaining passengers on board. Uruchurtu had, like every passenger, a lifeboat number and corresponding seat. As he was about to get into the lifeboat, an American woman, desperately seeking to be saved, appeared. At that point, the great, heroic Mexican said the words “LADIES FIRST,” and through this lofty act gave up his seat and sacrificed his life for a woman he did not know, taking into account only her gender. Then, accompanied only by the captain, he planted his feet on deck and sank as half the ship disappeared into the sea. The woman to whom Uruchurtu had surrendered his seat, now safely in the lifeboat, watched the slow sinking of the remainder of the ship and with it the two heroic men, one who died because the sacred duty of a captain is to go down with his ship and the other who sacrificed a life full of goodness and love in exchange for saving the life of a stranger because his only thought was to provide the protection a man is obliged to give a woman.
    I was in Veracruz when the press published the first news about the terrible catastrophe that threw so many homes in various parts of the world into mourning. I stayed in Veracruz the rest of April, and upon my return to Mexico City, my first step was to visit the distinguished Mrs. Caraza, wife of my ill-fated friend. Mrs. Caraza, who lived in a house on Roma Moreno street, received me with her customary grace, and we had begun to talk about the terrible event in question when the arrival of a foreign woman was announced. Uruchurtu’s wife, believing the woman might be bringing news that her beloved husband had survived, welcomed her in.
    She entered the living room and told her respected hostess: “I am an American citizen. For my return from England to New York, I took passage on the star-crossed Titanic. I was rescued, and have a sacred duty to fulfill. I am now in your honorable presence, and I implore that you grant me forgiveness if I further wound your broken heart with the terrible tale overshadowing my existence. Uruchurtu’s wife, filled with anxiety, replied, “You can tell me, I want to know what happened—even if it costs me my life!”
    “Madam, it was a very beautiful night aboard the ship, but cold and sad on the high sea; because I am not fond of parties, I was in my cabin when an indescribable noise, a terrifying upheaval, lights going out, shouting, people running about, and voices begging God for mercy brought me to the realization that a disaster had taken place—a disaster I did not want to have to deal with. I left my cabin like a woman possessed. Survival was a matter of minutes! I arrived at the prow of the ship. The other half of the ship had almost sunk. The emergency lights had come on and it was bright. Near the captain was a tall, relatively young, dark-skinned gentleman wearing a life vest over his evening wear who was about to throw himself into a lifeboat bobbing on the furious swells. The lifeboat had just one seat left, and it belonged to that gentleman. I, facing the imminent prospect of being swallowed up by the vast ocean, got on my knees and begged the man to let me be saved. He responded by saying the words, ‘LADIES FIRST.’ I didn’t think any more about it, and that was it. Then, moving away in the boat that saved my life, an indescribable terror possessed me as the part of the ship I had been standing on minutes earlier kept sinking. Then I saw for the last time THE GENTLEMAN I WILL NEVER FORGET FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE standing pensively with his arms crossed near the captain as they slowly disappeared into the furious waters of the Atlantic. I lost consciousness and that is all I know. I was among the survivors. Many investigations in New York before maritime and government authorities. It was an international matter! Nothing happened; it was a disaster, but one where no one could be blamed! Cruel fate! I later found out that my savior, that heroic and noble-minded gentleman, was a Mexican who had a family and a wonderful life in Mexico. I tried to put myself together and fulfill the most sacred duty of my bitter existence.”
    The distinguished and highly esteemed wife of Don Manuel Uruchurtu, sobbing, then said, “That’s how Manuel was! My unfortunate children will never know about what you have spoken; I want them to live their lives in the hopes that their incomparable and unforgettable father lives, albeit on an unknown island.”
    The entire conversation took place in Spanish, which the American spoke well. The only people present for the conversation were Mrs. Caraza de Uruchurtu, the woman in question, my son Carlos, and me. When the Titanic disaster took place, Don Manuel Uruchurtu held a seat in the federal legislature. He was originally from Sonora and had married the virtuous and distinguished Mrs. Caraza, a prominent lady in Xalapan society, and they had two daughters and a son. A great harmony reigned in their home, leading people to think they would be happy forever, when terrible reality did away with the hopes and dreams of that good and noble family. Uruchurtu had had a brilliant career. He had gotten a law degree and exercised his profession with remarkable success, as he was quite intelligent and enjoyed the good graces of the men running the country at the time. His best friend was his fellow countryman Don Ramón Corral, and he shared his office on Madero Avenue with the great lawyer and writer Don Esteban Maqueo Castellanos. Castellanos, while originally from Oaxaca, had developed strong relationships with prominent men in Sonora as a result of having been a district judge in the state, where his honesty and capabilities had left a lasting impression.
    The heroic action of Don Manuel Uruchurtu has been nearly forgotten and it would be an act of great justice to erect a monument to this great Mexican, an exceptional man who, sacrificing his own life, saved a woman’s. Mexico has a number of awards it can give out, and I think the best choice, given his great act of heroism, would be to present one to his descendants. Mexico should take pride in having had among its own a man who took action solely on the basis of chivalry. Uruchurtu was a real man, one of those gentlemen who distinguish themselves through a humanitarian act, an act which must be reclaimed by history.
    All Mexicans must feel proud that one of their brothers sacrificed his valiant life to save a woman who cried for help. While this respected Mexican’s name has fallen into oblivion, it is hoped that it will shine anew while letting the world know that in Mexico, a land of valiant and noble people, there are illustrious men like the Hero of Nacozari* and Uruchurtu.
    EPILOGUE: The distinguished Mrs. Caraza, wife of the unfortunate lawyer Manuel Uruchurtu, who had been able to unite two lives into one, heartbroken by the loss of her husband, died two months** after the maritime disaster took place. Her death orphaned three children who will always remember that they had an exceptional father, a man who, after witnessing the horrific scenes preceding the last moments of the remaining half of the Titanic, sacrificed the life he loved so much so that a woman would not lose hers.

    * On Nov. 7, 1907, a train engineer whose dynamite laden cars caught fire drove the train out of town, losing his life in the explosion, but preventing many other deaths.
    ** She actually died in 1916, not in 1912.

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    My thanks go to David Gaddis Smith at This site is under development for his excellent translation.

    The Colonel`s telling of the Titanic tale is riddled of course with historical inaccuracies. The fanciful story told by the American visitor, plus her failure to repeat the story to any newspapers of the day to ensure greater recognition for Manuel Uruchurtu, make me wonder if she might have been a hoaxer drawn out by the tragedy such as happened after 9/11. When these concerns are added to Col Pita`s incorrect account of the date, and cause, of the Uruchurtu widow`s death, then the credibility of the story he tells must come under severe strain. This however is a matter for Mr Garate to resolve.

    I wish him well in his revised research into the list of Titanic survivors and hope that this time he is able to correctly identify the woman who may have been saved by Manuel Uruchurtu, for it certainly was not Elizabeth Nye.

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    I have had a couple of queries about the post script I left at the end of Post 35. This was in reply to the comments left by Mr Garate on 27 Aug 12 beneath an internet article headed `The Mexican Hero of the Titanic Sinking - the story is false` which followed Guadalupe Loaeza`s surprise speech in San Diego Natural History Museum the previous week in which she stated her realisation that the story that had been told to her by Mr Garate was fictional and not factual.
    The article, and Mr Garate`s comments (perhaps better described as a rant) can be seen at

    Se hunde el héroe mexicano del Titanic: la historia es falsa

    It makes for interesting reading! (The article is in Spanish but can be translated using one of the online translator services)
    And what of Mr Garate? After several months apparent internet silence on the subject of the Titanic, has he acknowledged his error in naming Elizabeth Nye as the woman allegedly saved by Manuel Uruchurtu and apologised for libelling her good name for the last 30 years? Far from it - he has now resumed posting articles continuing to name her as the woman involved. As anyone who has read this forum will be able to tell him - that really is the definition of flogging a dead horse!

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    The Uruchurtu’s story -by his grand nephew Mr. Garate- is a simple one. There is nothing unbelievable in it. I am completely sure there were many other heroic stories in those terrible sinking moments. But is this story real? After reading all these posts I only can notice that the story is real but it may have some “historical inaccuracies”, using Mr Dave own words.

    I notice that Mr. Dave Bryceson is changing his perception toward the Uruchurtu’s story. Now he can accept the possibility of a heroic act from Manuel Uruchurtu. He has now more info and can not categorically deny all Mr. Garates’s story. That’s a good beginning. Now it’s time for him to apologize -2000 readers-, and say that this story is not a “tale”.

    With all those evidences Mr. Garate has always been the same in his speeches to affirm such story. Mr. Dave hasn’t.

    Manuel Uruchurtu –the unique Mexican passenger- was a successful person. When he died, he was a remarkable lawyer since he was Federal Deputy; and friend of Ramon Corral and Porfirio Díaz, ex Vice President and ex President of México, respectively. In 1912 Uruchurtu was in Europe visiting them. One of Uruchurtu’s teachers at school was Jacinto Pallares, the first lawyer in México and Father of the legal profession in Mexico. Certainty, there are some equal photographs from him, dated and signed. I have 5 original pics of him in my personal collection and I have seen some others. Mr. Dave is questioning these pics. Why? I have noticed that when he has no evidence of something he begins to make wrong conclusions. This is a frequent acting in him. Anybody has to support all denyings with evidence, and not with lack of evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Lopez Sevilla View Post
    The Uruchurtu’s story -by his grand nephew Mr. Garate- is a simple one. There is nothing unbelievable in it. I am completely sure there were many other heroic stories in those terrible sinking moments. But is this story real? After reading all these posts I only can notice that the story is real but it may have some “historical inaccuracies”, using Mr Dave own words.

    I notice that Mr. Dave Bryceson is changing his perception toward the Uruchurtu’s story. Now he can accept the possibility of a heroic act from Manuel Uruchurtu. He has now more info and can not categorically deny all Mr. Garates’s story. That’s a good beginning. Now it’s time for him to apologize -2000 readers-, and say that this story is not a “tale”.

    With all those evidences Mr. Garate has always been the same in his speeches to affirm such story. Mr. Dave hasn’t.
    Dave Bryceson does not need to apologise! As he already show, there is no truth in that story. Elizabeth Nye wrote a letter to her mother where she describes what she did that night, what happened in the lifeboat and how she was rescued by the Carpathia, she never mentioned that anyone gave up his seat for her. No one in No. 11 mentioned how someone left the boat beside one women who went on board but was taken back into the boat again.

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    Javier, what are "all the evidences" to which you refer? Can you name an eye witness to any incident of any kind involving Manuel Uruchurtu on the boat deck during the sinking? Any documentary evidence which mentions such an incident, or which confirms the extraordinary assertion that he alone, of all the adult males on board, was regarded as a special case to be 'assigned' a place in a lifeboat due to his occupation and status? Any evidence that he was commended by the US Government, as Alejandro Gárate Uruchurtu has always claimed? Any evidence that Edith Rosenbaum ever testified to his actions on the boat deck, as has also been persistently claimed by Alejandro? If such evidence exists, then of course the story which Alejandro has been promoting for many years would have solid support. Without such evidence, it must remain a myth.

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    I have just one comment to make in reply to Post 41. Mr Lopez, it really is time that you, and anyone else who still believes Mr Garate`s story, woke up and smelled the roses.

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    Regrettably there is a very sad and tragic footnote to be added to the matters discussed in this forum. Readers will recall that at the start of The Reforma`s enquiries into the Nye/Uruchurtu allegations in April 2012 the newspaper received a letter from Gertrudis Uruchurtu, the direct-line grandaughter of Manuel Uruchurtu, who stated that no one in her family had ever heard of the alleged incident and that the story had been made up by Alejandro Garate Uruchurtu. Gertrudis` voluntary and revealing contribution caused the first tear in the web of lies that Mr Garate had been spreading for thirty years. The further enquiries made by The Reforma were to totally destroy his version of Manuel Uruchurtu`s last moments on the Titanic.

    I have only this month become aware that in July 2013 Gertrudis lost her life in an apparent burglary at her home in Aguascalientes City, 300 miles north west of Mexico City. It appears that the burglar entered the house occupied by 75 year old Gertrudis and her bed ridden husband Leopoldo. The intruder was disturbed by a 31 year old male employee of the couple who was stabbed three times. Gertrudis attempted to intervene and she suffered 34 stab wounds from which she died at the scene. The burglar escaped taking cash, jewellery and the couples` car. Five weeks later a 22 year old man was arrested in his hometown of Guadalajara and he has been charged with her murder.

    Gertrudis Uruchurtu was a highly intelligent woman. In 1960 she had graduated from Universida Nacional Autonoma de Mexico (The National Autonomous University of Mexico - UNAM) as a Bachelor of Pharmaceutical Chemist Biologist. She worked for 30 years as a High School Science teacher during which time, and during her retirement years, she wrote many published essays and papers on scientific and environmental issues. Her loss, particularly in such a cruel manner, is to be deplored. I have sent condolences to the Uruchurtu family. May she rest in peace.

  46. #46
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    These are really sad news about Gertrudis Uruchurtu!

  47. #47
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    Very sad and tragic news regarding Gertrudis Uruchurtu.
    Jason D. Tiller
    "To be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
    43° 44' 01" N, 79° 24' 16"W
    Author of an upcoming biography on Arthur G. Peuchen

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    Another tragedy for the Uruchurtu family. Very sad news.

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    This is getting really silly now.
    I see that Mr Lopez has made no reply to the valid questions raised by Bob Godfrey in Post 43. Instead he has transferred his commenting onto a facebook page and one of his comments there has upset me and compelled me to write this

    OPEN LETTER TO MR JAVIER LOPEZ SEVILLA

    Mr Lopez,
    Thank you for your interesting contribution towards this debate which has helped the total number of times the site has been visited now to over 5,000. You and I sit at different sides of the fence when it comes to the true/untrue question but your Post 41 does contain one statement with which you and I are in complete agreement - “With all those evidences Mr Garate has always been the same in his speeches to affirm such story” Yes I agree with that much, but you have chosen to ignore the fact that each one of his evidences was discredited during the enquiries made by The Reforma newspaper. Mr Garate was even claiming to be a member of a non-existent Titanic Society!
    I ask you to look at just three of his evidences:-

    A. Mr Garate has been claiming for many years that Edith (Rosenbaum) Russell made a statement to the US Inquiry in which she states that she witnessed the heroic act of Manuel Uruchurtu in Lifeboat 11. A simple search on the Inquiry website will confirm The Reforma`s finding that Miss Russell was not called to give evidence at either the American or British Enquiry. Yet Mr Garate continues to assert that he, and other relatives and Titanic researchers have seen the document in question. Doesn`t it strike you as strange that faced with the only document he alleges can prove his case neither Mr Garate, nor any of the others he refers to, made a copy of the document or a note of the chapter and verse where it can be found?
    Lets turn to Edith Russell herself. She was a prolific speaker/writer about the Titanic for the rest of her long life (She died in 1975 at the age of 98 Quote: “I`ve written about that night until I am cock-eyed”) I see you enjoy researching so here is a project for you - here is a list of 8 articles by and interviews with Edith (there are many more as well) Since, according to Mr Garate, she was a witness to this heroic event she surely wrote and spoke about it many times. Work your way through the list and count how many times she mentions Mr Uruchurtu`s courageous act to Elizabeth Nye. Also, how many mentions she gives of Mr Uruchurtu.


    1. She was interviewed on her arrival in New York and the interview she gave was printed in The New York Times of 23 April 1912. (The interview is also reproduced on ET)
    2. A lengthy article she wrote in 1934 appears on the Charles Pellegrino website.
    Charles Pellegrino Web Site
    3. Pageant Magazine Oct 1953 edition. A six page article `I was on the Titanic` Pages 76-81.
    4. In 1957 Miss Russell was one of a number of survivors who were interviewed by BBC TV. This can be seen on YouTube at:
    Titanic Archive - 1957 Interviews - YouTube
    5. A lengthy and detailed article by Miss Russell appeared in The Ladies Home Companion magazine Vol II, No 6 May 1964. `I was Aboard The Titanic` Pages 88-97
    6. Miss Russell recorded a 20 minute radio talk for the BBC in 1970 which can be heard today at BBC - Archive - Survivors of the Titanic - Line Up | Edith Russell
    7.. A further interview, date unknown, with British Pathe News can be seen on YouTube at
    Titanic Documentary (Date Unknown) - YouTube
    8. An article in The Doncaster Evening Post from 1974 appears on this site.

    So, Edith had at least 8 opportunities to tell the world the wonderful story Mr Garate says she witnessed. How many mentions does Miss Russell give to Manuel Uruchurtu during these opportunities? I can save you the bother of checking Mr Lopez; The answer is not one. Doesn`t that tell you something? Please, check as many other of Edith`s articles as you like to see if you can find a mention of the incident Mr Garate alleges. I will tell you now - you would have more chance of reaching a successful outcome if you spent your time looking for Elvis!

    B. Another of Mr Garate`s persistent claims (mentioned again by him in Post 25) has been that there is a recognition of the heroic act in United States Congress, 62nd Congress, 2nd Session,20 August 1912, Document 933 having been found there by Robert Bracken, a US Titanic Researcher. The Reforma enquiries confirmed that there is no recognition of a heroic act in the document. If you cannot accept that I would be happy to send a copy of the document to you. I spoke with Robert Bracken and he denied ever finding any information connecting Elizabeth Nye with Manuel Uruchurtu. After I mentioned this to Mr Garate in Post 31 he replied in Post 33 still listing Mr Bracken as one of his evidences. How ridiculous was that!

    C. Search the web and you will find many websites on which Mr Garate has said that the memoirs of Col Pita contain his account of a meeting between Elizabeth Nye and the widow of Mr Uruchurtu. The Reforma found the memoirs which showed Mr Garate to be incorrect yet again. The Col mentions only an unnamed woman who spoke to the widow in fluent Spanish. Yet in Mr Garate`s version the woman, who he says was Elizabeth Nye, then travelled to meet with other relatives where it was found necessary to ask the local school teacher to translate the conversation! Does that sound like the same woman to you? To top it all Mr Garate adds (and this is my favourite fib of them all!) that the conversation was recorded by Mr Gilberto Escobosa, Official Chronicler of the City of Hermosillo. To bolster the importance of that statement Mr Garate added “I think there it might not be any doubt in the official documents related by a historian and chronicler” Considering that The Reforma enquiries confirmed that Mr Escobosa was not born until after the conversation took place I think there is a great deal of doubt!

    I could go on but quite frankly I am getting bored with picking holes in his story, there are so many. If you wish to carry on believing everything that Mr Garate says about the Titanic then of course you have every right to hold that, almost solitary, view. The onus probandi however remains with Mr Garate, it is for him to prove his case, but do you seriously think that with his track record so far he will ever be able to do that ? I would prepare yourself for a very long wait.

    I said at the start that one of your remarks on facebook had upset me. I find it very very sad, lamentable infact, that you are seeking to withhold due recognition to a fellow countryman of yours, Antonio Ferrary. You have posted a denial of his nationality and claimed that Encyclopedia Titanica only lists his nationality as unknown. Not so, it is twice shown as Mexican. I can only presume, that for some unknown reason you wish Manuel Uruchurtu to continue to be known as the only Mexican on the Titanic. You are therefore attempting to deprive a gallant fellow citizen of yours the full recognition he thoroughly deserves as an undisputed Hero of the Titanic Disaster. As a trimmer in the Engine Dept keeping the electricity running for the benefit of others Mr Ferrary did not have the chance that the passengers had of possible escape from the decks. Instead he had to remain at his duty post and watch the water rising around him until his life was over. Shame on you.

    If you do not wish to accept Mr Ferrary`s nationality from a British website then I suggest you look at this Mexican site dated 14 Apr 2012
    Códigos, los Signos del Estado - FUERON DOS LOS MEXICANOS QUE PERECIERON CON EL TITANIC

    Will you be putting that link on facebook or shall I ?

    Mr Lopez, it is you who should be making an enormous apology. Not to me, but to the memory of Mr Ferrary, and to the two innocent people these discussions entwine, Manuel Uruchurtu and Elizabeth Nye. I am sure they would all be appalled at the nonsense that has been emanating from Mexico on this subject.

  50. #50
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    When Javier recenly questioned the birthplace of the trimmer Anon(io) Ferrary (or possibly Herrary) on the ET Facebook page, I posted an image scan of the entry in the Titanic's signing on sheets in which the place of birth stated by this crew member and recorded at that time is clearly seen to be Mexico. As Javier provided a 'like' for this submission he presumably approved of it and must surely now accept that there were two Mexican-born victims of the Titanic. I have, however, again received no response to my repeated request for documentary evidence in support of the extraordinary claims which have been made on behalf on Manuel Uruchurtu and which, in the absence of supporting evidence from any survivor, can only be regarded as fabrication.

    herrary.jpg

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    I think it was in 1962 when Edith Rosenbaum (Russell) gave a interview in German TV (together with Alfred Nourney) and there is no mention of Mr Uruchurtu too.

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    Snce I made my last posting above, Javier has posted again on the ET Facebook page and expressed his opinion of the image scan of the Titanic's signing-on sheet. He declares that the 'x' in the word 'Mexico' is not an 'x' at all, and that the word does not have the conventional accenting which would be expected if written by a Mexican. He is concerned that Mr Herrary (or Ferrary) changes the spelling of his name in different documents created in different times and locations and protests that the name 'Anton Ferrary' is Italian rather than Spanish in origin. And he makes the extraordinary suggestion that the scan bears evidence of possible tampering in Photoshop. I have responded as follows:

    The precise spelling of names is frequently changed by emigrants to better blend in with the country and culture to which they have moved, so endless speculation over exactly how this man spelled his name in different locations and at different times in his life is not very productive. The best guide is his signature. I have already provided you with a scanned image of the Titanic's signing-on sheet, and pointed out that the spelling of the trimmer's name in his signature appears to be Herrary. Does that name not suggest Spanish ancestry?

    In the signing-on sheets, only the signatures were written by the crewmen concerned. The other details (age, birthplace, etc) were dictated to and written by a clerk. In the same document the same clerk has written other place names like 'Oxford', always with the 'x' constructed in exactly the same way as in the name 'Mexico'. And a clerk in a Southampton office would know nothing of course of the appropriate written accents for the name as it would be written by a Spaniard or Mexican.

    I will ignore your suggestion that the image I supplied had been tampered with. By whom? And why on earth would you suspect that?

    As an aside, do you believe that a man cannot be Mexican if his name is not obviously of Spanish origin? Would you consider that any crewman of the Titanic who gave his birthplace as Britain but whose name was Italian, Spanish, Irish, Indian, Chinese or whatever could not have been telling the truth?

    And I'm still waiting for you to tell us which survivor of the Titanic brought back evidence about Manuel Uruchurtu's behaviour on the boat deck.

  53. #53
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    Recently Mr Javier Lopez entered his collection of photographs of Manuel Uruchurtu on a Mexican Auction site with a start price of US$ 15,000. I think that the followers of this forum would be interested to read the description Mr Lopez has entered below a picture of the items.
    You will see that, despite the contents of the last 40+ posts, Mr Lopez remains firmly entrenched behind the Garate party line, and that he definitely has a B (for Bryceson!) in his bonnet! A translated copy of the entry is shown below without further comment from me.

    Manuel Ramirez was Federal Deputy Uruchurtu several times during the Porfiriato and 1 time during the first year in office Y. Francisco Madero. He drowned aboard the RMS Titanic as a passenger in first class that fateful night in the cold waters of the Atlantic. He was the only Mexican on board but it is falsely believed that there was another Mexican as crew member named "Anton Ferrary" whose biography is brief and confusing but all in the same biography indicates that Anton was NOT Mexican. Biography of Anton Ferrary presents an altered website "Encyclopedia Titanica" document in which an alteration of the word "Mescina" (Italy) treating of showing as "Mescico" (with "sc" without accent seen in the letter "e"). Anton is obviously Italian Ferrary because no Mexicans among the crew, but Italians. "Anton" is short for "Antonino" (Italian word) and the name "Ferrary".


    After testing and studies dating from the disaster in 1912, Manuel Uruchurtu was declared "Hero of Chivalry" by the Government of Sonora, Mexico, by the fact of having given his place in the lifeboat to a woman of English origin called Elizabeth Ramell. Critics of this story of heroism have not presented any evidence so far to deny the documents submitted by some of the descendants of Manuel Uruchurtu (other descendants have no idea who was Manuel Uruchurtu). Among the critics is the writer who curiously Guadalupe Loaeza wrote in 2012 a book entitled "The Knight of the Titanic" under the guidance of Alexander Uruchurtu, nephew of Manuel Uruchurtu. Later, Guadalupe Loaeza publicly recanted this story falling into the lie of David Bryceson-of English origin and Elizabeth Ramell- biographer whose dismal research did not return bad data involving Manuel Uruchurtu. Even if that were the case, the lack of data does not deny a possible fact, if anything it would only crash into question but with so many documents supporting this act of chivalry do not understand why Mr. Bryceson aims to clean up the bad image compatriot Elizabeth as the story according to Manuel Uruchurtu Ramell lied to access the lifeboat Uruchurtu and save his life in those dramatic moments of the sinking. The full story of the lie Elizabeth Ramell to Uruchurtu can be seen in hundreds of pages on the internet as well as many evidence for the history and act of chivalry

    Some of the photos shown here are signed and dedicated. In one Jacinto Pallares, father of law in Mexico and Manuel Uruchurtu teacher appears. In 2 of the photographs appears with his wife Gertrude.

    The story goes that fate played a trick on Uruchurtu Manuel should not have died because the Titanic. First, Uruchurtu had missed the boat because the train taking him to the port of Cherbourg where the Titanic was late addressed. However, despite this delay, the Titanic sarpo also delayed, which gave time Uruchurtu address. Second, Uruchurtu should not address the Titanic but another liner called Paris, but switched tickets with colleague Guillermo Obregon who also was visiting with Porfirio Díaz and Ramón Corral, exiled in France. And finally, once having the Titanic hit the iceberg, Uruchurtu must address the lifeboat # 11 to be diplomatic, but in an act of chivalry decided to give up his seat to Elizabeth Ramell.

    The price of the photos are in American dollars and is based on several elements: being a collection and not a single piece, its age (over 100 years), its size or format, the characters that appear Uruchurtu (Jacinto Pallares, its wife Gertrude, colleagues), firms Uruchurtu, dates, dedications, conservation status, the trajectory of Uruchurtu (lawyer, politician, writer and notary public), the rarity of the photos (I only know other 3 more) the importance for the history of Mexico and the world, be passenger 1st class passenger being drowned in the Titanic, the price of other similar photos with collectors, being the only Mexican on board the Titanic, to be officially declared "Hero of Chivalry" by a State, having a biographical book by an author recognized to commemorate the 100th anniversary of his death, uncle Ernesto Uruchurtu be former Regent of the City of Mexico, be the subject of several documentaries including one of the History Channel, etc.

    I am at your disposal for any questions

  54. #54
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    This is ridiculous! Obviously they only want to do money with a made up and false story.

 

 

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