1. Welcome to Encyclopedia Titanica
    or subscribe for unlimited access to ET! You can also login with , or !
    Dismiss Notice

1 Hour and 33 Minutes — A Time Difference Gone Wrong

Discussion in 'ET Research Articles and Features' started by Encyclopedia Titanica, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. At local apparent noon Sunday April 14th 1912 Titanic’s clocks would show exactly 12:00 noon. At that time Titanic had reached a longitude of about 44° 31’W having traveled 1549 nautical miles since taking departure outside of Queenstown harbor three days earlier. At that longitude on April 14th in 1912 local apparent noon occurred at 2:58 p.m. Greenwich Mean Time GMT. Therefore on that fateful Sunday time on Titanic’s clocks whic... Titanica! Wed, 28 Mar 2018

    Continue reading...
     
    Tags:
  2. Kyle Naber

    Kyle Naber Member

    Not this again!!!
     
    Harland Duzen likes this.
  3. Hey, Kyle, nobody is making you read it. But if you do, you may like the simplicity and proof that is given.
     
  4. It's only three pages.
     
  5. Kyle Naber

    Kyle Naber Member

    True :D It just seems like beating a dead horse at this point, though.
     
  6. If the horse was dead, I would have never have written it. ;)
     
    Kyle Naber likes this.
  7. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    I quote from your article, Sam :

    "This statement, if true, implied that clocks on Titanic were 1 hour and 33 minutes ahead of clocks in New York and Washington, or 3 hours 27 minutes behind clocks keeping GMT. "

    That only holds good if you are comparing ship time to Eastern Standard Time which is 5 hours different from Greenwich Mean Time. What makes you so sure that Boxhall was thinking in terms of EST for New York and Washington?

    As I have shown you ad nausea, the navigators used a time difference of 4 hours 55 minutes between GMT and New York Time.
    Titanic's clocks were set back...Lightoller confirmed this in his evidence. This would be a partial set back of 24 minutes.
    Thus, at the time of impact, the ship's clocks were 3 hours 22 minutes behind GMT and what is siginificant...they were 1 hour 33 minutes ahead of New York Time.
    In fact, if you dig, you will find an instance where one of the US Senators refers to a similar difference. If I remember rightly, he used 4 hours 56 minutes.
     
  8. Aaron_2016

    Aaron_2016 Member

    Did the collision occur at 11.15pm? This survivor believed it did.


    US Inquiry - John Collins - Assistant cook - First class galley

    "Exactly at a quarter past 11 I was wakened up. I had a clock by me, by my bed, and my clock was five minutes fast, and it was exactly a quarter past 11 when the ship struck the iceberg, and it wakened me."

    Q - You are certain from your clock you saw at the time of the accident took place at exactly 20 minutes past 11, not according to that clock, but allowing for the five minutes that the clock was slow?
    A - No; the clock was fast, sir.
    Q - I thought you said the clock showed 11.15, and the accident took place at 11.20?
    A - No, sir; the clock was 20 minutes passed 11, and the accident took place at a quarter past 11, if my clock was right. I could not exactly say. I put on my trousers and went up on to the deck, up forward, and I saw the deck almost packed with ice on the starboard side.

    2nd class passenger Lawrence Beesley also stated in his original 1912 account that the collision occurred at 11.15pm. Any ideas why a crewman and a passenger would say that?


    .
     
  9. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    Easy!

    A fully set back clock would read 11-15 pm...a partially set back one would read 11-39pm and an unaltered clock would read 2 minutes past Midnight.
    A crew member who worked days (NO Watches) would set his clock back the full amount before going to sleep so that he would go to work the next day at the proper time.

    A passenger would do one of three things:
    1. Set his watch back the full amount for the same reason as a crew member.
    2. Sit up until midnight...set his watch back for the first partial change then make the full change when the clock read Midnight once again.
    3. Re-set his watch by the full amount when the steward called him in the morning.
     
    Aaron_2016 likes this.
  10. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator Member

    Hello, all---

    There are already several lengthy discussions of the time difference issue, which need not be duplicated here. This thread, therefore, will be closed and any further discussion should be continued elsewhere.

    Thanks.
     
  11. Mark Baber

    Mark Baber Moderator Member

    Hello, again---

    After reconsideration I've reopened this thread, but ask that you try to avoid the lengthy discussion(s) of this subject that appear elsewhere on the Message Board. Sam's article should not be used as the springboard to repeat what's already been said.

    Thanks.
     
  12. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    Forgive my confusion, Mark. Are you suggesting that 'lengthy discussions' are to be avoided or that Sam's articles are out of bounds?

    I can well understand the need for controls on distasteful, insulting, personal attacks, but the regulation of content volume seems counter-productive to the ongoing success of the site. After all, you and the rest of us might get tired of seeing the same old arguments trotted out ad nauseum, but hopefully, new members join each day and a new approach to an old "thorn" is often helpful...especially if the "thorn" remains an irritation. I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but although mention many times before, the 1 hour 33-minute enigma has never been a specific target for discussion. This is in itself remarkable in that it is a crucial piece of the Titanic jigsaw. Sam's article has highlighted this and as he wrote "If the horse was dead, I would have never have written it."
     
  13. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    Not sure where to post this in light of the above confusion but while reading Durrant's testimony to the British inquiry regarding the signals he sent and received and their timings, the following occurred to me:

    We are told that the Mount Temple was 1hr 46 mins ahead of New York Time and that the clock adjustment on that ship took place at 10pm each evening. Titanic was therefore either 16 minutes ahead of MT if Titanics clocks were 2.02 ahead of NY or 13 minutes behind MT if the first adjustment had taken place and her clocks were 1.33 ahead of NY.

    So, if we look at 3 crucial signals received by Mount Temple then compare the times we find the following:

    Mount Temple hears Titanic's CQD Smith Position. Mount Temple Time 12:11 therefore Titanic time either 11:58 or 00:27.

    Mount Temple hears Carpathia respond to Titanic (Boxhall Position). Mount Temple time 12:21. TItanic time either 12:09 or 12:37

    Mount Temple operator hears last message sent from Titanic. Mount Temple time 01:33. Titanic time either 01:20 or 01:49.

    Looking at those times, only the plus 16 therefore 2.02 minutes unadjusted times seem to fit. The final recorded signal heard by the MT operator was far more likely to have been at around ten to 2 as the forehead had gone under and collapsible D was going over the side than at 20 past 1 around the time the black gang were arriving on deck.
     
  14. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    Where did you get the time of 10 pm for clock alteration, Rob?

    According to Captain Moore, Mount Temple's clocks were set at Noon on April 14 and were 1 hour 46 minutes FAST of EST. In fact, I am of the opinion that Titanic's clocks were 1 hour 38 minutes FAST of EST.
     
  15. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    Durrant mentioned it in his testimony.

    9526. (The Solicitor-General.) No. (To the Witness.) What did you do on the "Mount Temple" to correct your time? Is it corrected at noon?
    - Yes, and I believe it is put on or back some time at night about 10, but that does not affect me at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  16. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    Hello Rob,

    Durrant was simply explaining the system which was as follows:

    If there was to be a clock change, the normal practice on a 3-mate ship was: when heading East (reducing westerly longitude) the clocks were advanced in two stages...at 10am and at Midnight.
    Going West (increasing westerly longitude) the clocks were initially retarded at "first midnight". The second adjustment would be made at the end of the Midnight to 4 am Watch.
    In the case of Titanic, the first part of the change would be made at "first midnight" and it would have been completed by Pitman when he came on Watch at "second midnight".

    Although he turned to and knocked-off by the ship's clock, Durrant worked in either GMT or EST. At the time of the disaster, he was working in EST
     
  17. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    PS...your last post timed "1-33 PM"...cool or a coincidence?:p
     
    Rob Lawes likes this.
  18. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    Oh how I wish it was deliberate. :)
     
  19. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    I disagree Jim, I think Durrant explained the routine onboard during his voyage.

    Mount Temple was heading west from Belgium to Canada.
     
  20. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    Yes I know she was, Rob. I simply elaborated on the ship routine.
     
    Rob Lawes likes this.
Loading...