Matt Smith
Member
What were some of the unoccupied first class cabins and if you were a passenger which one would you take? Oh one more thing if there were still unoccupied 1st class cabins why were some denied and put into the 2nd class?
1st Class Cabins
- Thread starter Matt Smith
- Start date
Ryan Gentry
Guest
That's a good question!
Camron Miller
Guest
Hmmm... Isn't it those who were transferred from other White Star ships to the Titanic who were denied first class passage? They were first class passengers on other ships, but to travel first class, they'd have to have paid for an upgrade, as accomodation on the Titanic was so much more expensive. It wouldn't have been good economics to give free first class staterooms to so many, especially as most were very enthusiastic about being allowed to travel on the Titanic. Wasn't Eva Hart's father glad to have been given the chance to transfer?
Matt Smith
Member
Remember Edith Brown saying that her family wanted to travel first class but they couldn't because it was full?
Brian Ahern
Member
I know what you're thinking of, Matt. In her interview with "Titanic: Death of a Dream" she said her family could have gone first class if all "the Americans" hadn't filled it. But this is simply not true. The only reason her family didn't go first was because her father clearly wasn't willing to pay for it.
Edith's mother was apparently very disappointed by this, so I've always had a theory that maybe Mr. Brown told his wife that first class was filled so that he could save some money without an argument.
-Regards,
Brian Ahern
Edith's mother was apparently very disappointed by this, so I've always had a theory that maybe Mr. Brown told his wife that first class was filled so that he could save some money without an argument.
-Regards,
Brian Ahern
Michael H. Standart
Member
Matt, you might want to check out Lester Mitcham's outstanding RMS Titanic Passenger Numbers The Statistics of the Disaster which gives the actual breakdown of how many passengers were aboard and in what class.
The actual passenger certificate states that Titanic could carry 905 in 1st Class. With 324 that were actually on board, 1st class was way undersold.
The actual passenger certificate states that Titanic could carry 905 in 1st Class. With 324 that were actually on board, 1st class was way undersold.
David Haisman
Guest
Brian Ahern,
Perhaps you would like to enlarge on some of your assumptions regarding Thomas Brown's reluctance to pay a first class fare and my grandmothers apparent disappointment.
David Haisman
Perhaps you would like to enlarge on some of your assumptions regarding Thomas Brown's reluctance to pay a first class fare and my grandmothers apparent disappointment.
David Haisman
Lester Mitcham
Member
Greetings Michael,
The 324 in 1st Class includes Alfred Nourney, who upgraded onboard from 2nd Class.
You have a passenger certificate stating that Titanic could carry 905 in 1st Class? -
The British Inquiry says 1034. - Might be interesting to count from the deck plans and or the Fares Rate booklet and see if one includes and the other excludes the sofa berths and uppper pullman berths that could be added "if required".
Regards,
Lester
The 324 in 1st Class includes Alfred Nourney, who upgraded onboard from 2nd Class.
You have a passenger certificate stating that Titanic could carry 905 in 1st Class? -
The British Inquiry says 1034. - Might be interesting to count from the deck plans and or the Fares Rate booklet and see if one includes and the other excludes the sofa berths and uppper pullman berths that could be added "if required".
Regards,
Lester
Brian Ahern
Member
I stand truly and justly rebuked.
I was basing my assumptions (or presumptions) on Mrs Haisman's own words while being interviewed on camera for the tv show "Titanic: Death of a Dream" which is available on dvd.
But you are right - I have no business making off-the-cuff assumptions about the motives or actions of people who lived 90 years ago.
You have my sincere apologies.
-Brian Ahern
I was basing my assumptions (or presumptions) on Mrs Haisman's own words while being interviewed on camera for the tv show "Titanic: Death of a Dream" which is available on dvd.
But you are right - I have no business making off-the-cuff assumptions about the motives or actions of people who lived 90 years ago.
You have my sincere apologies.
-Brian Ahern
Michael H. Standart
Member
Lester, all I did was take a look at Passenger Certificate #1415 in the appendix which had the following breakdown;
1st Class: 905
2cnd Class: 564
3rd Class: 1134
Crew: 944
Total: 3547
No warranties offered on which figure is accurate, though this would hardly be the only example of confusing and inaccurate numbers given by the Wreck Commissiion, would it? I'll bet you could rattle of an impressive list of them!
1st Class: 905
2cnd Class: 564
3rd Class: 1134
Crew: 944
Total: 3547
No warranties offered on which figure is accurate, though this would hardly be the only example of confusing and inaccurate numbers given by the Wreck Commissiion, would it? I'll bet you could rattle of an impressive list of them!
Lester Mitcham
Member
Greetings Michael,
My very appreciative thanks for that. - I had not previously seen #1415, so I will be checking the page 4 figures with interest. - E-deck [the Upper Deck] looks to be somewhat low. The others decks look as if they include the sofa and upper pullman berths which could be added "if required".
Many thanks,
Lester
My very appreciative thanks for that. - I had not previously seen #1415, so I will be checking the page 4 figures with interest. - E-deck [the Upper Deck] looks to be somewhat low. The others decks look as if they include the sofa and upper pullman berths which could be added "if required".
Many thanks,
Lester
Michael H. Standart
Member
Lester, if you have the printed copy issued by the PRO, I found this certificate on page 912. I haven't made much of a detailed study of the passenger accomadation being more concerned with forensics issues lately. The ability to add berths wouldn't surprise me though. It would be useful if business was booming.
A little caution may be in order here as my understanding of the certificated numbers wouldn't nesseccerily reflect what was actually fitted on the ship at the time, but only the maximum allowable.
Your results may really vary here in a big way. I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with.
A little caution may be in order here as my understanding of the certificated numbers wouldn't nesseccerily reflect what was actually fitted on the ship at the time, but only the maximum allowable.
Your results may really vary here in a big way. I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with.
Lester Mitcham
Member
Hi Michael,
Yes I do and now you remind me I have seen it; but so long ago I had forgotten all about it.
With regard to the number of berths. The Boat deck is correct with 7 - five single berth rooms and one 2-berth. A-deck is correct with 76. Initially four 3-berth, but later rooms A-36 and A-37 were added. 30 single-berth, 28 of which could be fitted with a sofa-berth. So 6x3=18+30+28=76. - I will look at the other decks later.
Many thanks for the reminder.
Regards,
Lester
Yes I do and now you remind me I have seen it; but so long ago I had forgotten all about it.
With regard to the number of berths. The Boat deck is correct with 7 - five single berth rooms and one 2-berth. A-deck is correct with 76. Initially four 3-berth, but later rooms A-36 and A-37 were added. 30 single-berth, 28 of which could be fitted with a sofa-berth. So 6x3=18+30+28=76. - I will look at the other decks later.
Many thanks for the reminder.
Regards,
Lester
Lester Mitcham
Member
Hi Michael,
The other decks:
B-deck - forward: 49 rooms: 27 single-berth. 24 of which could be provided with a sofa-berth. Four 2-berth and eighteen 3-berth. = 27+24+8+54=113
Aft: 50 rooms: Thirty-two 2-berth and six 3-berth = 64+18=82
There were also 12 rooms which show on deck plans as being 2-berth; but in a Fares Rate booklet are defined as single-berth [no sofa or upper Pullman-berths being mentioned]. These rooms are further defined as Servant's rooms for the Suites-of-Rooms. So 12 or 24?
113+82+12 = 207+12 = 219; which is the total on the List which you drew my attention to.
C-deck: 131 rooms: 16 single-berth of which 15 could be fitted with a sofa-berth or an upper Pullman-berth = 31
Fifty-eight 2-berth; 17 of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth = 116+17 = 133
Sixty-one 3-berth = 183
31+133+183 = 347
D-deck: 49 rooms: 11 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Six 2-berth and Thirty-two 3-berth
= 11+11+12+96 = 130
E-deck: Old 1st Class: 45 rooms: 11 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Two 2-berth; twenty-eight 3-berth and four 4-berth
= 11+11+4+84+16 = 126
Ex-2nd Class: 46 rooms: 9 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Thirty-seven 3-berth. = 9+9+111 = 129
905+129 = 1034. So the figures you knew about excluded rooms that had been 2nd Class; while the set of figures I knew about included those rooms. The one niggling question is the Servant's rooms on B-deck. Were they originally for 2 and re-defined as single-berth; or did they remain as 2-berth; with a sofa-berth or like B-5 and B-6 have an upper-berth?
Perhaps I should also do 2nd and 3rd Class?
Regards,
Lester
The other decks:
B-deck - forward: 49 rooms: 27 single-berth. 24 of which could be provided with a sofa-berth. Four 2-berth and eighteen 3-berth. = 27+24+8+54=113
Aft: 50 rooms: Thirty-two 2-berth and six 3-berth = 64+18=82
There were also 12 rooms which show on deck plans as being 2-berth; but in a Fares Rate booklet are defined as single-berth [no sofa or upper Pullman-berths being mentioned]. These rooms are further defined as Servant's rooms for the Suites-of-Rooms. So 12 or 24?
113+82+12 = 207+12 = 219; which is the total on the List which you drew my attention to.
C-deck: 131 rooms: 16 single-berth of which 15 could be fitted with a sofa-berth or an upper Pullman-berth = 31
Fifty-eight 2-berth; 17 of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth = 116+17 = 133
Sixty-one 3-berth = 183
31+133+183 = 347
D-deck: 49 rooms: 11 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Six 2-berth and Thirty-two 3-berth
= 11+11+12+96 = 130
E-deck: Old 1st Class: 45 rooms: 11 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Two 2-berth; twenty-eight 3-berth and four 4-berth
= 11+11+4+84+16 = 126
Ex-2nd Class: 46 rooms: 9 single-berth, all of which could be fitted with an upper Pullman-berth. Thirty-seven 3-berth. = 9+9+111 = 129
905+129 = 1034. So the figures you knew about excluded rooms that had been 2nd Class; while the set of figures I knew about included those rooms. The one niggling question is the Servant's rooms on B-deck. Were they originally for 2 and re-defined as single-berth; or did they remain as 2-berth; with a sofa-berth or like B-5 and B-6 have an upper-berth?
Perhaps I should also do 2nd and 3rd Class?
Regards,
Lester
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Perhaps I should also do 2nd and 3rd Class?<<
Whew! If you have the eyes for it. Not sure I could do it without my vision going fuzzy followed by my passing out!
I take it some of the accomadations in 2cnd Class could be used for 1st if things were tight and the market was there.
Whew! If you have the eyes for it. Not sure I could do it without my vision going fuzzy followed by my passing out!
I take it some of the accomadations in 2cnd Class could be used for 1st if things were tight and the market was there.
