1st class passengers vs 3rd class passengers

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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I wasn't implying there was anything non-pc about reference to the survivor as a 'Jap', rather that it should not be assumed from that reference that he was actually Japanese. Lowe certainly did attract an official complaint for his less than complimentary references to 'Italians', especially the large group who watched from the decks as boat 14 was lowered, "glaring, more or less like wild beasts, ready to spring". And he later formally apologised for making such comments, which were clearly unjustified. In fact, the grand total of Italians travelling in 3rd Class amounted to just four, and three of them had long ago left their homeland to take up residence in the US or Britain. Lowe's "wild beasts" might have included some of the Italian waiters from the restaurant, but far more likely contenders would have been the very large contingents of young, single men travelling from Croatia and Bulgaria - 'Latin types', as Lowe termed everybody who didn't look like a NW European or American.
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Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Collyer's account of Lowe and the Asian is worthless, as Bob pointed out. I find it amusing that Collyer was something of a racist herself, according to her story.

"He screamed another order for the boat to be lowered; but just as we were getting away, a steerage passenger, an Italian, I think, came running the whole length of the deck and hurled himself into the boat. He fell upon a young child, and injured her internally. The officer seized him by the collar, and by sheer brute strength pushed him back on to the Titanic. As we shot down toward the sea, I caught a last glimpse of this coward. He was in the hands of about a dozen men of the second cabin. They were driving their fists into his face, and he was bleeding from the nose and mouth."

As Bob mentioned, few Italians were on board. They used to sail to the USA from Italian ports. The 30 or so Italians from the restaurant were confined below decks, so only the handful in third class could have been on deck.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Dave, I agree that most of the restaurant staff were at one point prevented from going up on deck, albeit by crewmen with 'orders' rather than by locked doors. But they must have been allowed up eventually, to account for the 10 recovered bodies of restaurant waiters and kitchen staff.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Interesting comment re: Mrs Collyer's own assumptions about 'Italians', Dave. Such views were, of course, pretty much the standard at the time. Her story about the 'Jap' might well have originated from hearsay on the Carpathia, coloured by her own reactions as a grieving widow. There were others who expressed resentment that their husbands and/or sons had been lost, while 'less deserving' cases (including the stewardesses!) had been saved. But she did at least comment that the rescued man proved to be a good oarsman and therefore was deserving after all!
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Daniel David Myers

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well nobody knows the truth. People make up stories over the years and get carried away with them.The survivors like mentioned earlier were obviously in shock, lost a loved one, etc. and said what they thought was true.. all of these stories could be wrong. we might never know the truth..