2nd Class Wife 3rd Class Husband


Jordan Miner

Member
Jul 9, 2006
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Lawrence Beesley wrote of a man who was traveling steerage, but had placed his wife in the second cabin. The man would climb the stairs leading from the steerage to the second deck and talk affectionately with his wife across the low gate which separated them. He never saw the man again after the collision, but thought the man's wife was on the Carpathia. Does anyone know who this couple might have been?

Jordan
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Jordan,

There are already two discussions dealing with this subject:
1) New Passenger/Crew List and
2) Olga Elida Lundin

Hope one of these may give you a possible answer.

Lester
 

Jim Kalafus

Member
Dec 3, 2000
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After reading Jusith Geller's book, I favor Susan Webber and one of the Braund brothers, as there is a reference made to her spending her days speaking across the gate to them.
 
H

Hermann Söldner

Guest
And one of the Braund brothers (younger than Susan) placed her second class, and talked to her affectionately?

She just promised to look after them. Take also a look at her letter the next page. If reading Lundin's letter home and comparing with Webber's, Webber's sounds aseptic.

Hermann
 

Jim Kalafus

Member
Dec 3, 2000
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These three single women
did not socialise much together
on the ship, as Winnie was more
gregarious than the other two.
She commented that Susan (Webber)
spent most of her time talking
over the gate between Second and
Third Class to a fellow from her home
town......

From Judith Geller's Women And Children First. That is what lead me to believe that Webber and Braund MIGHT, and I stress MIGHT, have been the couple of whom Beesley wrote. In her case there IS admittedly shaky evidence (I have no idea when Edwina Troutt made that claim, or whether or not she was familiar with the Beesley account and might have added that as a romantic detail to her tale- I also have no idea from where Judith Geller drew that fact and have no way of checking) that she spent time at the gate talking over it to someone in Third Class. About the Beesley quote- as a casual observer he would have had no way of knowing the relationship between the two (and governed by 1912 etiquette WOULD NOT have asked) and most likely made the easiest assumption- that they were husband and wife. Just as he made that assumption about William Harbeck and Henriette Yrois/Yvois. As to the level of passion in the respective letters- I agree with you; however, there would have been little opportunity for venting passion over the gate in broad daylight, and had there been a public display of affection other than a chaste kiss, given the standards of public decency in 1912 a quick stop would likely have been put to it. My guess is that the level of "physical intimacy" at the gate would have been the same between Lundin and her man as it would have been between Susan Webber and Mr. Braund. I'm not saying that the woman of whom Beesley wrote COULDN'T have been Olga Lundin. What I am saying is that there isn't enough evidence in his account to substantiate that it is, and that there is at least one bit of supporting evidence ,albeit not the best, that it COULD have been Miss Webber.
 

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