2nd Officer Stone's Interrogation.

Jim Currie

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I suggested nothing of the kind. I suggested that the green was invisible because the Californian wasn’t close enough to the Titanic. At the time she got close enough her green was closed, and her red was opened.
Then explain how it was that the side lights of both vessels were mutually visible by Lord, Groves, Stone and Gibson from abut 11pm April 14 until just after the Gibson saw rocket number 5 ? If those on Californian could see the other vessel's sidelights during that time, then observers on the nearbt vessel could see the lights of Californian. Had that other vessel been Titanic, then the observers on Titanic were much higher that those on Californian so could see a great deal farther.
In truth, those on the nearby vessel, saw Californian's lights from the moment that nearby vesel stopped until that vessel turned away and steamed off to the SW'ward. It is cruel to whip a "dead horse".;)
 

AlexP

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Then explain how it was that the side lights of both vessels were mutually visible by Lord, Groves, Stone and Gibson from abut 11pm April 14 until just after the Gibson saw rocket number 5 ? If those on Californian could see the other vessel's sidelights during that time, then observers on the nearbt vessel could see the lights of Californian. Had that other vessel been Titanic, then the observers on Titanic were much higher that those on Californian so could see a great deal farther.
In truth, those on the nearby vessel, saw Californian's lights from the moment that nearby vesel stopped until that vessel turned away and steamed off to the SW'ward. It is cruel to whip a "dead horse".;)
The only explanation is that for one reason or another the Californian’s navigational lights were not as bright as the Titanic’s. I’ve read Samuel’s article about lenses that the Titanic’s masthead light had. It’s reasonable to assume that The Californian, older and smaller steamer had no such lenses as the Titanic did. Maybe there was not enough current to make the lights bright enough. When at 4 a.m. Mr. Stone saw the lights of another steamer either the Mount Temple or the Carpathia, nobody from these two spotted the Californian. Her lights were not bright enough. Maybe even Californian’s masthead lights had different brightness. At first Mr. Boxhall saw one light only, and then he saw the second, when she cot closer.
 
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Jim Currie

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The only explanation is that for one reason or another the Californian’s navigational lights were not as bright as the Titanic’s. I’ve read Samuel’s article about lenses that the Titanic’s masthead light had. It’s reasonable to assume that The Californian, older and smaller steamer had no such lenses as the Titanic did. Maybe there was not enough current to make the lights bright enough. When at 4 a.m. Mr. Stone saw the lights of another steamer either the Mount Temple or the Carpathia, nobody from these two spotted the Californian. Her lights were not bright enough. Maybe even Californian’s masthead lights had different brightness. At first Mr. Boxhall saw one light only, and then he saw the second, when she cot closer.
if the queen of Britain had been born a man, she would have been their King. I'm outta here!
 
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AlexP

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if the queen of Britain had been born a man, she would have been their King. I'm outta here!
It all depends. 300 years ago a first-born daughter of the King would not have been the Queen, to begin with, if the King had a son too.
The visibility of the Californian's navigational lights depended on their brightness.

I'm outta here!
It's one of the best arguments when there's nothing else left to say.
 

AlexP

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Cod'swallop! Scintillating? o_O
Have you ever seen a coal burner stopped? If you have, then you will know that if the weather is calm, there is almost a perpetual wreath of smoke around her funnel and masts... more so if there is an inversion of temperature. What these two saw was little whisps of soot-laden funnel smoke swirling around the masthead light.
The reason why Groves and Gibson decided the other vessel was not signalling was because they looked at her. through binoculars.. saw the flickering light and could not read it. These were not RN signallers and the bug-key had not yet been invented.
I wonder how Mr. Gibson could have mistaken the Titanic's masthead light, or any masthead light with the Morse lamp in the first place? The masthead lights are much higher than the Morse lams are. Mr. Gibson was able to see the sidelight and a few other lights. So why dint't he notices that the light he thout was the Morse lamp was much higher? Maybe the reason is that Mr. Gibson first saw the Titanic around 40 minutes after the collision. By that time the masthead light was down, and aft lights were up because of the way the Titanic was going down. So Mr. Gibson's mistake could prove that he was looking at the sinking Titanic.
 

Jim Currie

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Non directional signalling lamps were fixed on top of actual masts, on a specially designed mast on the bridge or in some cases, at the end of a yard arm in a sailing vessel. There is no way that Gibson could have known where the nearby ship had her NDL mounted, but he sure as sugar would be able to recognise the biggest ship in the world at night at sea. To suggest otherwise (and it most certainly is implied in all the nonsense written about this part of the Titanic saga) is a piece of unmitigated rubbish. Any 4th Year Apprentice who was unable to do that had been wasting the previous 4 years and would have better spent his time taking up Sunday School teaching. Any experienced officer who could not do it should have been keel-hauled
 
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AlexP

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What is "Non directional signalling lamps "? Do you mean they could have been placed higher than masthead lights? Thanks
 

Jim Currie

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Ps, a non-directional signal lamp is another name for a signal lamp which has 360 degree visibility. These were
also known as a BoT signalling lamps back in the old days. Most ships had some version of them, but some also carried small uni-directional searchlight-like signal projectors. Before 1940, these were carried mostly by warships. After that time, merchant ships were supplied with Aldis Lamps which were portable and could be plugged in or battery operated.
 

AlexP

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Ps, a non-directional signal lamp is another name for a signal lamp which has 360 degree visibility. These were
also known as a BoT signalling lamps back in the old days. Most ships had some version of them, but some also carried small uni-directional searchlight-like signal projectors. Before 1940, these were carried mostly by warships. After that time, merchant ships were supplied with Aldis Lamps which were portable and could be plugged in or battery operated.
Thank you, Jim.
I found this one after you told me that the Morse lamp could had been on the masts.
 
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