3rd class women who refused to get into boats

[Harry Peach]

When one thinks of women who refused to leave husbands or refused to get into a lifeboat, we often thing of 1st and 2nd class women who had the privilege of time and choice!

ON the flip side we often think of steerage passages emerging towards the end of the lifeboats going - and being desperate to get into one!

so which women from 3rd class had the opportunity to leave but were lost due to choicing of remaining onboard for any reason?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Interesting question. I don't know of any Third Class women who refused to leave their husbands and died as a result, but there might have been, especially among non-English speakers. The nearby survivors might not have known the intention in that case.

AFAIK, of the 12 Second Class women who died, 4 refused to leave their husbands. Sarah Chapman, Lilian Carter, Anna Lahtinen and Dorothy Turpin. A fifth, Henriette Yvois, was rumoured to be the mistress of filmmaker William Harbeck; she died in the sinking and as her purse was found on Harbeck's recovered body, some assumed that she refused to leave him.

 

[William Oakes]

Early on after the accident, many 3rd class passengers, both men and women, refused to leave their luggage, as it contained everything that they owned.
Many felt that the safest place was near their berth, with their luggage.
I've read of hundreds of them in the corridors, with lifebelts on, sitting on their luggage.
By the time they realized the enormity of the situation, all of the boats were long gone.

 

[Harry Peach]

I know Rhoda Mary Abbott was hesitant to leave because she wouldn't leave her teenage sons, and they all ended up in the water - yet she did survive, so I imagine there would be other similarities - even right at the end!

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I know Rhoda Mary Abbott was hesitant to leave because she wouldn't leave her teenage sons, and they all ended up in the water - yet she did survive, so I imagine there would be other similarities - even right at the end!

Elin and Edvard Lindell were in the vicinity of Collapsible A when it floated off after Steward Brown cut the falls. Not sure whether Elin had refused to take an earlier boat but despite actually having some contact with Collapsible A, neither survived. Elin's wedding ring was found on the bottom of the boat and eventually returned to her father in Sweden.

 

[Tim Gerard]

Elin and Edvard Lindell were in the vicinity of Collapsible A when it floated off after Steward Brown cut the falls. Not sure whether Elin had refused to take an earlier boat but despite actually having some contact with Collapsible A, neither survived. Elin's wedding ring was found on the bottom of the boat and eventually returned to her father in Sweden.

I don't think Elin Lindell would've had an earlier opportunity to get into a lifeboat. It's been a while since I've seen the 1998 Discovery Channel documentary "Titanic Untold Stories" but I remember them quoting August Wennerstrom as saying he, along with Edvard and Elin Lindell, finally made it to the boat deck late in the sinking and basically slid down the sloping deck into water near Collapsible A. He and Edvard climbed into Collapsible A, Edvard died shortly thereafter. August saw Elin floating in the water and grabbed her hand to try pulling her aboard but was unable.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I don't think Elin Lindell would've had an earlier opportunity to get into a lifeboat. It's been a while since I've seen the 1998 Discovery Channel documentary "Titanic Untold Stories" but I remember them quoting August Wennerstrom as saying he, along with Edvard and Elin Lindell, finally made it to the boat deck late in the sinking and basically slid down the sloping deck into water near Collapsible A. He and Edvard climbed into Collapsible A, Edvard died shortly thereafter. August saw Elin floating in the water and grabbed her hand to try pulling her aboard but was unable.

Thanks and I think you could be right. I remember that "sliding down" report from Wennerstrom. It might be in Wade's Titanic: End of a Dream book.

Under those circumstances, it is difficult to say if Elin Lindell would have refused to get into a lifeboat by herself leaving Edvard behind.

 

[Aly Jones]

Early on after the accident, many 3rd class passengers, both men and women, refused to leave their luggage, as it contained everything that they owned.
Many felt that the safest place was near their berth, with their luggage.
I've read of hundreds of them in the corridors, with lifebelts on, sitting on their luggage.
By the time they realized the enormity of the situation, all of the boats were long gone.

Going by this survivor, you are right.

youtube:l70-ZM5T8pQ

 

[Tim Gerard]

I'm finally getting a chance to read my copy of Wyn Craig Wade's "Titanic End of a Dream" (several months ago I got a copy for $1 at a public library book sale). A quote from page 56 simply says "other wives had elected to meet death with their husbands" including "many wives in steerage. But they had no one to tell their stories."

Granted the book was copywritten in 1979 so I imagine it's possible that more stories could have surfaced since then in the past 40 years.

 

[Steven Christian]

Going by this survivor, you are right.

Good find. Interesting clip. Thanks

 

[Arun Vajpey]

A quote from page 56 simply says "other wives had elected to meet death with their husbands" including "many wives in steerage. But they had no one to tell their stories."

I am certain that the surmise is true but the highlighted part above shows that Wade was just stating the obvious without evidence. There must have been many Third Class women who refused to leave their husbands and older sons behind but since they could tell no one, their identities will remain hidden forever.

Stella Sage, a 20 year old woman, is thought to have found a place in a lifeboat but got out again when she discovered that rest of her family were not going to make it. She was a single woman of course, but her reaction, if true, shows that Third Class women could and did have the same kind of attachments & concerns as those in First or Second Class.

 

[N Alison]

I heard a story somewhere that Catherine Bourke and Mary Bourke from third class refused to leave John Bourke, who was Catherine's husband and Mary's brother. They went down with the ship together in spite of the women getting on deck in time. They were part of the Addergoole 14.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I heard a story somewhere that Catherine Bourke and Mary Bourke from third class refused to leave John Bourke, who was Catherine's husband and Mary's brother. They went down with the ship together in spite of the women getting on deck in time. They were part of the Addergoole 14.

Can you try and find the source and see if there are ant more details or references? What you say is mentioned in Catherine's ET bio where Kelly's Titanica! is quoted as a source with survivor Anna Kelly contributing. But there are several newspaper names mentioned and one or both of the other two survivors from the Addergoole Group might have given interviews; also, I want to check if Anna Kelly told anyone else about the Bourkes because she was their relative and reportedly made it to the boat deck with them. But whereas she was allowed into a (unknown number but likely port side) lifeboat as a single woman, the Bourke ladies refused to leave John.

Also, the Bourkes would have been considered as a family and so were most likely berthed in a sternward cabin, as would have been the single woman Bridget Delia McDermott - also part of the Addergoole 14. While there is no certainty about the lifeboat on which Delia was saved, there is this story about how she was actually sitting in Lifeboat #9, realized that she had left her expensive new hat behind in the cabin and went back for it; by the time she got back (so the story goes), not only had Lifeboat #9 left the ship, but Lifeboat #11 as well. But she found herself a place in Lifeboat #13 and survived to tell the "tale". If even partly true, all that suggests that (probably) unlike the Bourkes, Delia McDermott was on the starboard side of the sinking Titanic.

 

[N Alison]

Unfortunately most of what I hear is online sources related to the Addergoole group in general. I could very well be wrong but I feel like the story might have been quoted in The Mammoth Book of the Titanic, which is full of some misinformation.