4 First Class Women


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Daniel Odysseus

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I heard an account that there were four women in first class that didn't board a lifeboat... I know that one was Ida Straus, and the other was Bess Allison. Who were the other two?

-D.O.
 
Apr 16, 2002
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Annie Isham and Little Lorraine Allison. Many lists have 11 women lost, but it was far smaller. It was only 4.
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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One more - Edith Corse Evans, who narrowly missed collapsible D, giving a total of 5 first class females who were lost in the sinking, one of whom was a child.

Ben
 
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Daniel Odysseus

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Thanks, this realy helped.

Just to clarify, though: Loraine would be counted as a child, yes?

-D.O.
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hello, Ben. Actually, there is some uncertainty whether Miss Evans missed boat D or boat 4. Mrs Brown's story describes being in boat 4, not D.
I trust everything is well with you!?!

Best regards,

Peter
 
Dec 13, 1998
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BROWN, Mrs CAROLINE LAMSON. ’Room had been found for several persons picked up out of the water after the boat had been launched…There were only two boats left on their side of the deck when Mrs Brown and Miss Evans were called…..Mrs Brown was seized by one of the seamen and thrown into the boat. As it was lowered she heard the officer telling Miss Evans to ’come along’ and that there was one more boat…..The lifeboat in which Mrs Brown found a seat was leaking badly at the plug, she said, and women had to take off their stockings to plug up the hole. Finally, Mrs Brown and some of the others were transferred to another boat. Just after the transfer had been made, Mrs Brown said, a whistle was heard. It had been sounded by Second Officer Lightoller. It resulted in at least a score of lives being saved, and among those rescued from a raft were Harold Bride, the wireless operator, and John B Thayer, Jr. (The New York Times, April 22 1912?)

Admittedly, her story is a bit ambiguous, but the fact that she mentions several people being dragged in from the water made me a bit interested. Furthermore, Mrs Hämäläinen in boat 4 was in conversation with a first class passengers by the name of Brown (Mrs) who helped distribute clothing to those dragged in from the sea.

Best regards,

Peter

Peter
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hello Peter,

Thank you for that. Appreciated. Most interesting. Quite different to what is in Gracie.

Regards,
Lester
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Peter,

Great to see you here! Many thanks for sharing that Brown account with us, which certainly raises some interesting questions.

Room had been found for several persons picked up out of the water after the boat had been launched..

..."AFTER the boat had been launched" - This to me, is significant, and appears to point to collapsible D, the boat initially "assigned" to Caroline Brown. Frederick Hoyt was picked up from the water immediately "after the boat had been launched", as was Hugh Woolner, who's misjudged leap from A-deck landed him waist deep in the North Atlantic. As we know, boat #4 also picked up swimmers, but an appreciable amount of time had then elapsed between the lowering of that boat, and the sinking of the vessell (boat #4 made its rescue attemps at around this time). It would appear, thus, that Mrs. Brown's statement is more applicable to D than 4.

There were only two boats left on their side of the deck when Mrs Brown and Miss Evans were called

Could this refer to boats D and B? If she had boarded boat #4, there would have been NO other boats visible. Indeed many boat #4 occpants believed that theirs was the last boat to depart from the sinking liner.

"Just after the transfer had been made, Mrs Brown said, a whistle was heard. It had been sounded by Second Officer Lightoller. It resulted in at least a score of lives being saved, and among those rescued from a raft were Harold Bride, the wireless operator, and John B Thayer, Jr."

There is little doubt that both boats (D and 4) would have heard Lightoller's whistle. Both were members of the Lowe flotilla. However, Caroline Brown does not state explicitly that she was *in* the boat that *rescued* Collapsible B. The account suggets that she merely witnessed the event from a distance, or perhaps more likely, she reciveced a more detailed account of what occured after she had boarded the Carpathia, and as a result of consulting with other survivors.

Col. Gracie's incredible attention to detail, especially conerning lifeboat occupancy, ensured that his account was a clear as possible in this respect. In fact, boats 4 and D were two of the better described boats in his book, and the Brown/Evans seperation in described in great detail.

I'd appreciate yours and Lester's thoughts on this.

Best Regards,
Ben
 
Dec 13, 1998
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Hello, Ben. I have been thinking about this a lot, and I believe Mrs Brown indeed was in boat No 4, not in D. I know Col Gracie felt Mrs Brown left in boat D, but her own story hints at No 4. I am not sure whether I managed to copy the whole story, but I seem to remember that she said several crewmen were dragged into her boat from the sea (if I remember this correctly). Also, 'several' from the sea indicates just that - neither Steffanson nor Woolner were taken into the boat from the sea, only Mr Hoyt.
Still, this isn't enough, I know. It is what Mrs Hämäläinen said about talking to a Mrs Brown, a first class passenger, in Mrs Hämäläinen's lifeboat that made me believe Mrs Brown was in boat 4. There were other ladies near boat 4 who didn't enter it; Miss Hilttunen and Mrs Chapman.
But then, I wasn't there, and this is just my theory.

Best regards,

Peter
 
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Joseph Kendrick

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it is said that Ann Isham had a st brenard or some other large dog that she would not leave. A ship spotted a dead women cluched to a dog.

Joe
 
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