A question about deaths in lifeboats

[Stephen St. Onge]

In a discussion on another forum, the question was raised of how many people, if any, died in the lifeboats as a result of the cold air, or due to being splashed with seawater. I've read that Carpathia buried four to six survivors at sea, but haven't found any information on causes of death. And of course not all those who died in the boats necessarily were taken aboard Carpathia.

If anyone has any sources on this, I'd appreciate the information. Thanks in advance to all.

 

[Harland Duzen]

The official (and current) death toll from the lifeboats is 4 people. 2 crew and 2 Passengers:

Lifeboat 4 - Seaman William Henry Lyons (Hypothermia)
Lifeboat 4 - Stewart Sidney Conrad Siebert (Hypothermia)
Lifeboat 14 - Passenger William Fisher Hoyt (Hypothermia)
Collapsable D - Passenger Frederick Maxfield Hoyt (Exhaustion and Hypothermia)

 

[vonfrieddorf]

Mr. Tyne, I suggest your source is mistaken regarding the death of Frederick Hoyt - perhaps he was confused with casualty William Hoyt (apparently no relation). Mr. Hoyt survived, as a quick check of his biography here will confirm.

The fourth body belonged to David Livshin, a third-class passenger traveling under a ticket purchased by one Abraham Harmer. Officer Lightoller transferred the body from Collapsible B when Lifeboat 12 took off the survivors.

 

[Harland Duzen]

Sorry, your right. I could't remember it and look it up on Wikipedia. I delete the previous post.

NEW UPDATED LIST:

Lifeboat 4 - William Henry Lyons
Lifeboat 4 - Stewart Sidney Conrad Siebert
Lifeboat 14 - William Fisher Hoyt
Collapsable B - David Livshin

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

The only other deaths happened aboard Collapsibe A and B. As most fall into the sea or were threw overboard (this was done at Collapsible A) we can not say exactly how many and who. In case of collapsible A we knew a few names like the Lindell couple, Keefe & Beatie (Edith Evans might be too as there is mentioned she made it into the boat too) but other will remain unknown.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

I've read that Carpathia buried four to six survivors at sea,

Then you read something wrong as only 4 bodies were taken aboard Carpathia and buried at sea later the afternoon. The names were already posted above (post #4).

 

[Aaron_2016]

Lightoller said he spoke to wireless operator Phillips on the upturned boat shortly before he died and Harold Bride saw his body and believed he was taken aboard the Carpathia and buried at sea.


Harold Bride - Exclusive account to Mr. Marconi and published in the New York Times.

"One man was dead. I passed him and went up the ladder, although my feet pained terribly. The dead man was Phillips. He had died on the raft from exposure and cold, I guess. He had been all in from work before the wreck came. He stood his ground until the crisis had passed, and then he collapsed, I guess. But I hardly thought that then. I didn't think much of anything. I tried the rope ladder. My feet pained terribly, but I got to the top and felt hands reaching out to me."


After his story was published he wrote a letter to the Marconi Company which was read at the US Inquiry.

"As you have probably heard, I got on the collapsible boat a second time, which was as I had left it, upturned. I called Phillips several times, but got no response, but learned later from several sources that he was on this boat and expired even before we were picked off by the Titanic's boat. I am told fright and exposure was the cause of his death. As far as I can find out, he was taken on board the Carpathia and buried at sea from her, though for some reason the bodies of those who had died were not identified before burial from the Carpathia, and so I can not vouch for the truth of this."


Harold Bride was questioned at the US Inquiry about Phillips' death.

Q - You say there were a number of people on the boat, on the bottom of the boat that was bottom-up when you got there?
A - Yes.
Q - Do you know any of them?
A - I heard afterwards that the senior operator was on board.
Q - Mr. Phillips?
A - Mr. Phillips.
Q - Was on the boat?
A - Yes; I heard so afterwards.
Q - He did not survive, however?
A - He did not survive.
Q - Do you know whether he died going from the Titanic to the Carpathia?
A - He died on the way; yes. He died on board the upturned boat.
Q - What became of his body?
A - As far as I know, it was taken on board the Carpathia and buried from the Carpathia.
Q - Buried at sea?
A - Buried from the Carpathia.


.

 

[Harland Duzen]

The problem we never truly know the official number of those who perished in or on the lifeboats due to it being pitch darkness, no-one knowing who else they were with in the boat and in the case of Collapsable B, no footrest meant anyone could just slip-off into the sea as gruesome as it sounds.

Officially found or known to have died in Lifeboats:

Lifeboat 4 - William Henry Lyons
Lifeboat 4 - Stewart Sidney Conrad Siebert
Lifeboat 14 - William Fisher Hoyt
Collapsable A - Edvard Benrgtsoon Lindell (Elin Gerda Lindell clutching boat's side)
Collapsable B - David Livshin

Believed to have been on Boat:
Collapsable B - Jack Phillips

What about the men found in Collapsable A by the Oceanic in May 1912?

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Believed to have been on Boat:
Collapsable B - Jack Phillips

Philips was never on collapsible B.
The Fate of Jack Phillips

What about the men found in Collapsable A by the Oceanic in May 1912?

Keefe, Beatie & an unidentified crew member. They were left in boat A by Lowe when he overtook the survivors into his boat No. 14 as they were already dead.

 

[Aaron_2016]

He was on the collapsible with Lightoller who had a conversation with him before he died, and Bride witnessed his body as he approached the ladder to the Carpathia - "I passed him and went up the ladder." Bride also said - "Phillips ran aft and that was the last I ever saw of him alive." The next time he saw him he was sadly dead. The link you provided did not mention Bride's $1,000 account where he said he witnessed Phillips' body as he made his way up the ladder. I see no reason to doubt his word regarding the man's death.

When Lightoller published his book in the 1930's Harold Bride was not happy about the conversation which Lightoller said he had with Phillips' before he died.

.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Lightoller was mistaken.

So then what did happened to the body of Philips then? Only 4 bodies were taken aboard and buried later the day at sea none of them was Philips!

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Bonnell & Wick: "In addition to the people who had gotten into the life boats in the first place there were several others in them. These men had been picked up as they were swimming. They were weakened from the exposure, and four of them died on the Carpathia. These men were W. H. White [Hoyt] and Abraham Hornner [Harmer], passengers, and S. C. Sievert [Siebert], steward, and T. Lyons, sailor. They were wrapped in the stars and stripes and buried off the Carpathia Monday, returning to the sea from which they had been so vainly rescued."
Decatur Review & Washington Times, 19 April 1912

 

[Harland Duzen]

Philips was never on collapsible B.
The Fate of Jack Phillips

I know there's controversy as to whether he was even on the boat so I said ''Believed'' not ''Definitely''

Lifeboat 4 - William Henry Lyons (Buried on Carpathia)
Lifeboat 4 - Stewart Sidney Conrad Siebert (Buried on Carpathia)
Lifeboat 14 - William Fisher Hoyt (Buried on Carpathia)
Collapsable A - Arthur O'Keefe (Buried on Oceanic)
Collapsable A - Thomson Beattie (Buried on Oceanic)
Collapsable A - Edvard Benrgtsoon Lindell (Elin Gerda Lindell clutching boat's side)
Collapsable A - Unknown Crew Member (Buried on Oceanic)
Collapsable B - David Livshin (Buried on Carpathia)

 

[Stephen St. Onge]

My thanks to all of you who replied, it is clear that a few people died on the boats, but very few compared to the number of people IN the boats. This was the question that was under discussion in the other board, and you've answered definitively.

Again, thanks.

 

[L. Colombo]

It should be pointed out that the men who died in boats 4 and 14 - Lyons, Siebert and Hoyt - were not on the lifeboats when they were launched, and did not die from being splashed with water, or due to cold air. All three were among the few people that were plucked from the water (Boats 4 and 14 being the only ones to go back and rescue some swimmers) and died in the lifeboats, after being rescued, from the effects of hypothermia incurred while in the water.
It is likely that more people died on Collapsibles A and B than Keefe, Beattie, Lindell and Livshin. From survivor statements and estimates that I recall it seems that at least six or seven people died in Collapsible A, maybe even twice as many, and some others died on Collapsible B, ranging from three-four to maybe ten. Most bodies were jettisoned during the night and therefore remain unidentified.