A Red Herring Traced to Source


May 3, 2002
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There has been some debate as to whether the Lusi "stood on her nose with her stern out of the water" or not.

Eric Sauder has argued that this could not have taken place. I had tested this myself before I knew how he arrived at his conclusions and came to the same conclusion.

Having come into possession of the transcipt of the open sessions of the Mersey inquiry I have finally found the source of this red herring.
read on...

927. ...and then she went down by the head
herself, and. I take it as far as I can
judge, she upended herself until her
nose touched the bottom and then she sank
down herself.

928. So, according to you, she got into a
position almost vertical? - I should say
she had an angle of about 30 degrees from
perpendicular.
930. Then, I think you went off, with #15 ...

This was 1st officer Arthur Rowland Jones under cross examination by Mr Branson who appeared for the Board of Trade. [p.26 16 June 1915]

It seems that these "Learned" men forgot everything they heard in the TITANIC inquiry since a ship upending to the degree Jones describes would have seen most people slide down the boat deck into the sea as happened on the TITANIC. I doubt very much whether #15 or any other boats would have been launched afterwards.
#21 was the last boat way and went away fully loaded after being lowered to the sea by the foundering ship. [ Diamandis p.34]

Martin
 
May 3, 2002
799
27
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Wellington, New Zealand
I was going to post a diagram to illustrate the point but the "add attachment" function has been deleted
sad.gif


If you want to receive one let me know and I will send it to you.

cheers

Martin
 

Mark Baber

Moderator
Member
Jul 4, 2000
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If you email me a description of the problem you've been having, Martin, I'll see if we have any solution.
 
May 6, 2011
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Um, the second set of images are more feasible.Oh well, a rewrite of my story is due. From the accounts gathered by Mr Kalafus and his fellow scholars, the second set of images are consistant with most survivors accounts.
 
May 3, 2002
799
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Wellington, New Zealand
I agree Ellen. It reveals why I question the evidence of the 1st officer I cited at the top of the thread. Jim's work has had a strong influence on the second image but the original idea to look at it came from Eric Sauder and he gave me permission to work from his earlier Lusitania book for a base profile image. In all sequences the sea depth is to coorect scale in relation to the the ship

Many thanks to Mark Baber for his offer of help.
I decided to do something else in ET and in the meantime I discovered a solution.

Actually, Mark if either you or Phil could delete the posts dated 27 July 2002 and 12 April 2007 then that would be great.
many thanks

Martin
 
May 6, 2011
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Dear Mr Cahill, its worth while to nail the truth. Until this came up, I thought she had sunk at a steeper angle, but I see I had been misled. Many thanks for the diagrams, they do make sense. I think the stem may have hit the bottom first, but by that time the ship was obviously completely underwater.
 
May 3, 2002
799
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Wellington, New Zealand
I,m glad they have been of some use, especially in light of the debate in the thread next door.

The dynamics of the sinking occured from a number of sources but "The Last Log of the Titanic" by Cpt. David G. Brown clearly showed what would happen to a damaged ship if it is driven forward even at slow speed.

Remember the Lusitania was, at first, being driven through the sea at 18 kts with a 20 by 10 foot hole in its side surrounded by much wider secondary hull damage.

Yes I agree about the forefoot of the stem. I think Ken Marschalls painting is good representation of this. The ship may have rested on it and then pivoted over onto her side. This must have occurred when the ship was fully submerged. The found location of the funnels on the seabed would tend to support this. As to whether they fell when she landed or came away much later may never be known.

regards

Martin
 

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