A Titanic passenger research quest

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

A Titanic passenger research quest​

Research in French archives revealed the real reason why Michel Navratil abducted his children and took them aboard the Titanic

 

[Arun Vajpey]

An excellent research article Phil and a real eye-opener, including personally for me. For some inexplicable reason, for years I used to feel rather sorry for Michel Navratil Sr, wishing that he had survived and made a life for himself and his kids in America. This article proves that he was a rather despicable character who probably would have struggled to make a success of his life in the US even if had survived.

Out of interest about Michelle's predicament: Wasn't there a time limit for the husband's disappearance before he was declared legally dead so that the wife could move-on and remarry?

 

[Steven Christian]

An excellent research article Phil and a real eye-opener, including personally for me. For some inexplicable reason, for years I used to feel rather sorry for Michel Navratil Sr, wishing that he had survived and made a life for himself and his kids in America. This article proves that he was a rather despicable character who probably would have struggled to make a success of his life in the US even if had survived.

Out of interest about Michelle's predicament: Wasn't there a time limit for the husband's disappearance before he was declared legally dead so that the wife could move-on and remarry?

Yes that was a very good article. I don't understand the part of why he wasn't declared dead. He was identified with his right name and even given a grave with a headstone. Seems like that could of been corrected. I read where she filed a claim for $40,000. Did she ever get that?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I don't understand the part of why he wasn't declared dead. He was identified with his right name and even given a grave with a headstone.

Exactly. The Navratil children were identified after a slight delay and there were other survivor witnesses to provide evidence that they had been travelling on the Titanic with their father, albeit under false names. So, even if Michel Navratil Sr's body had not been found, he should have been declared as dead; but it was found, identified and laid to rest (RIP) in Halifax. Therefore, as far as Marcelle Navratil was concerned, she would have officially become a widow within a few months at most after the disaster and was officially given the custody of her children. So, to my way of looking at it, she should have been able to move on with her life thereafter and so, this below makes no sense to me.

She could never marry, as she was not divorced, and, thanks to the obstinacy of the Nova Scotia team, her husband Michel Navratil was never declared dead. She was neither widow nor divorcee, so for the rest of her life, poor Marcelle Carretto remained Michel Navratil’s wife.

That's another thing that I do not understand; how could the "Nova Scotia team" have any say in the matter? Both Michel Sr and Marcelle were French citizens and AFAIK after she took the custody of the children, they sailed back to France. I cannot see any grounds on which the Canadian officals could prevent Marcelle from remarrying later.

 

[Seumas]

A fascinating read.

And also proof that there is much information about the lives of the Titanic's passengers and crew still out there that exists but is waiting to be found and shared.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Can someone please tell us what the French and Canadian laws were at the time for a spouse who "disappeared" and whose fate remained unknown? Surely there must have been a time limit after which if he/she remained unaccounted for, they would have been declared dead?

 

[Richard C Elliott]

Can someone please tell us what the French and Canadian laws were at the time for a spouse who "disappeared" and whose fate remained unknown? Surely there must have been a time limit after which if he/she remained unaccounted for, they would have been declared dead?

As far as I can tell the default time period in France would have been 10 years and in Britain and its former dominions (therefore Canada) 7 years. The procedure after that time would have been to apply to the courts for an order of presumption of death which authorised the relevant death registration body to issue a death certificate. That is still the UK position and was until quite recently in France, though EU regulations are gradually regularising the 7 year period across the bloc.

There have always been processes by which the courts can shorten the period required on the basis of strong evidence of death but these have varied a good deal between countries and over time, so I don't know the 1912 position in France or Canada. I guess, though, that the acceptable evidence would have to include some sort of statement from the authority given responsibility for certifying the Titanic deaths, which was the Halifax coroner's office and that would explain the need for the co-operation of the "Nova Scotia team". Why they didn't issue a certificate seems inexplicable.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Thank you for that Richard. It's an excellent, explanatory response.

As far as I can tell the default time period in France would have been 10 years and in Britain and its former dominions (therefore Canada) 7 years.

Yes. In India, a former British colony, that period remains as 7 years.

There have always been processes by which the courts can shorten the period required on the basis of strong evidence of death

I would have thought the finding of Michel Navratil Sr's body with all the identification points including the (a friend's?) pseudonym that he was using, was more than "strong evidence of death" even if the Canadian authorities did not accept it as conclusive.

NO. 15 - MALE - ESTIMATED AGE 36 - HAIR & MOUSTACHE, BLACK
CLOTHING - Grey overcoat with green lining; brown suit.

EFFECTS - Pocket book; 1 gold watch and chain; silver sov. purse containing £6; receipt from Thos. Cook & Co. for notes exchanged; ticket; pipe in case; revolver (loaded); coins; keys, etc; bill for Charing Cross Hotel (Room 126, April 1912).

SECOND CLASS NAME - LOUIS M. HOFFMAN.

Why they didn't issue a certificate seems inexplicable.

I agree. Just a wild guess: could one of his friends, who helped in Navratil & the kids' flight on board the Titanic, have exerted some influence in Canada? After all it was once partly a French colony although Nova Scotia was never as Frenchified as Quebec.

And also proof that there is much information about the lives of the Titanic's passengers and crew still out there that exists

Undoubtedly. Sarah Daniels is another about whom there is very little information, especially her life after the disaster.

 

[Sam Brannigan]

Fantastic research. Really illuminating.

 

[James Martindale]

Wonderful article Fidelis! You and Celia are to be commended on your efforts.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Among the myriads of reports which appeared in US newspapers after Marcelle turned up to claim her children, there were two very interesting interviews. In one, when asked whether she would tell the children what a bounder their father was, she told the reporter she planned to let them believe he had been a hero.

This surely explains Michel Navratil junior’s strange recollections (as a three-year-old) that his father calmly came into the cabin, dressed him and his brother warmly, and then placing them both gently into the lifeboat, while making an extraordinarily long speech about how much he loved them and how he still loved their mother and how his real plan was that they should eventually all be reunited in America.

Rather than telling her children the truth, as witnessed by several people on deck and in Lifeboat D, that during the chaos of the ship’s final moments, as the last lifeboat to safely leave Titanic slid into the sea, those children had been flung, practically naked, over the side. In the desperate melee, as people fought to get on the last lifeboat, there would certainly have been no time for long speeches. Marcelle must have given the children that story about their father’s care. For the rest of their lives, the boys believed it to be the truth.

Above is an excerpt from Fidelis Morgan's article. As I said before and of course my previous posts, one can see that I actually wished that Michel Navratil Sr had survived and made a life for himself and his kids in America. The following is a quote from my own OP from 7 years ago:

All other events being exactly the same, if you had the capacity to save just ONE Titanic victim, who would that be and why? Can be passenger or crew.

Oddly enough, my own choice would be Michel Navratil. I am fascinated by the Navratil children's story and cannot help wishing that their father had taken them to America for a new life. I don't know why.

Part of that fascination was the knowledge that had Michel Navratil survived and reached the USA, there is a high chance that he would have gotten himself and his kids lost in the sea of new immigrants, pseudonym and all. Had that happened, Michel Jr and Edmond would have grown up as Americans (albeit under different names) and not the Frenchmen that they eventually became. Then Edmond Navratil would not have become a Nazi prisoner during WW2, which is believed to be the cause of deterioration of his health and eventual premature death in 1953.

But reading this article has been a real eye-opener. I agree that the story about Michel Sr's poignant farewell to his kids sounds a bit too contrived given the atmosphere around Collapsible D, if the kids really were on that boat. Also, while the then almost 4 years old Michel Navratil Jr must have remembered some elements of their rescue, it is highly unlikely that he would have such a mature-sounding recollection. But since he did report that story, it could only have been Marcelle who later tutored him about that scene.

Although there are no direct words to that effect, the article appears to accept that the Navratil kids were rescued on Collapsible D, something that has been disputed. Off the top of my head I cannot recall third party statements about the kids' rescue and so can someone post relevant information about that? Who said they were "flung into a lifeboat practically naked"?

Henri never married. Nor did Marcelle. She could never marry, as she was not divorced, and, thanks to the obstinacy of the Nova Scotia team, her husband Michel Navratil was never declared dead. She was neither widow nor divorcee, so for the rest of her life, poor Marcelle Carretto remained Michel Navratil’s wife.

I am still unable to figure out how this could have happened with so much evidence available about Michel Navratil Sr's death. Can it be that Marcelle simply did not pursue the matter hard enough and just gave-up?

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Now why would Navratil be carrying a loaded revolver? Hmm?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Now why would Navratil be carrying a loaded revolver? Hmm?

Considering the recent revelations in that article about Navratil's background, I would have thought that there were quite a few reasons why he chose to be armed. He had a history of violence against his wife (Quote: On 10 March 1911, at noon, before several witnesses, with no reason, he threw a plate at his wife which smashed on the parquet, and insulted her, calling her a woman of the gutter, a fishwife and a woman of no substance.), was deeply in debt, had absconded from a bankruptcy hearing and was on the run after virtually kidnapping his children from his estranged wife's official custody. Navratil might have feared that ombudsmen, or even unofficial enforcers might come after him.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Arun, I was being facetious. That's why I put a "Hmm?" at the end.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Arun, I was being facetious. That's why I put a "Hmm?" at the end.

Thanks for clearing that up, Sam. I guess I'm losing the ability to pick-up sense of humour in old age.

Marcelle told reporters from The Evening World that she faced an uncertain future because, before leaving Nice for the ship, Michel Navratil had also stolen her jewellery and her life savings of 8000ff.

If true, that's quite despicable of Navratil. I wonder why Marcelle continued to shield his reputation from the children.