Aberdeen Line Ship in British Pathe Newsreel

[Milos Grkovic]

Update:

I've been going through photographs of both Themistocles and Demosthenes from State Library Victoria, New South Wales and various other sources. Including their models built by Harland and Wolff. With it being a year after finding one ship, the Demosthenes with a follow up being Themistocles, the final conclusion to which of these two were filmed from a boat as it leaves the liner, It's finally been found.

This year, I began my search for the deck equipment of the two aforementioned ocean liners. The main focus that caught my eye is the vent near the aft section of the main superstructure. So what I did is use it as a reference to see how it'd compare to both ships. Looking closely, that vent reached as high as the bulk of the superstructure ends so, to see more of it, I looked at the one of the Demosthenes. But as time's gone by the result didn't get me anywhere.

Then I moved to the one as seen on the Themistocles. Well within seconds while I was going through the film reel and the photographs available for me to view the ship, there it was.

And to add to this, the object that's on the stern, which also shows canvas owning, is actually supported by two beams on both sides. Also, it can be seen sitting at the same level as the poop deck. What is also noticeable is the front bulkwark with windows facing in the same direction as two beams. In the photograph taken in the 1920s, the canvas is a bit higher. This as seen in the 1920 can be seen during Australia Day or Anniversary Day regatta as the ship was a part of it during her career. Demosthenes did have those same beams, but there weren't that many photographs showing the canvas owning.

While the future of the film reel used in the Titanic Disaster newsreel is uncertain, it's always the best way too look at the references. Just like how many use to find out more about the Titanic while Dan Parkes and even Ioannis Georgiou who confirmed that he did indeed search for the reel but with no luck. Personally, even if I joined in this search, I don't want to call myself a researcher as I'm like everybody else. But the question that Dan shared information on his website led me to give a hand. After reading about the Themistocles she had a really long career, well into the beginning of the 1940s. so there's a reason to believe that she'd be promoted more than her sister ship, the Demosthenes. However, to have a good idea of the two ships, I need to look into their history.

To conclude this mystery, I don't think there's else to say about it. It was a search to begin with and look into both of these ship's historical journeys and seeing the structural differences between the two and it did teach me a lot about them. But to end on a high note here's a photograph of Themistocles from © National Museum NI site with my correction to the exposure. Catalogue number HOYFM-HW-H1399.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

After finding which ship was in the reel, here's a small rough diagram of what we see in the newsreel.
Note: Some of these are my speculation as they are the only ones I was able to note down.

In the beginning of the newsreel we see:

• a tall ship
• passengers on a boat on which a camera man is standing on
• and a land in the distance

 

[Milos Grkovic]

While the search has concluded, there's one more photograph that I'd like to combine all of the notes from it.

This photograph is from the State Library of the Western Australia. It doesn't have a specific date and year it was taken, but I'd like to guess is post-Titanic disaster as evident by the amount of lifeboats on the raised deck on the stern. There are changes like an added pipe going alongside the hull on the stern, near aft superstructure. But to my surprise, there's a white canvas owning which sat on the same level as the one in the film reel. This also goes for a tall cowl vent with the exact height as seen again, in the same reel.

To check the photograph, I linked it in the comment above.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

This one I didn't do that well with correcting the exposure, but it's mostly at test from this thread after concluding that it was indeed the Aberdeen Line's ship the Themistocles filmed in from the tender or some other type of boat. Also, while it's hard to guess where this reel was filmed I'd like to guess in Australia based off of that canvas owning supported by two beams on either side.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Update:​

Conclusion​

This is what I'd like to keep it short, and while I'm at it, here goes. To start with, I'll talk about my earlier find about the Themistocles and why she stood out to me while researching the ship in the mentioned newsreel. And after concluding this thread, I'll end it with three reasons.

The first reason is self-explanatory. She had a very long career starting in 1911 and ending with her been scrapped in 1947. She had three owners - Aberdeen, White Star and Shaw Savill & Albion line. This is a part that I had to read through a Wikipedia article as I couldn't find anywhere else to look.

The second reason - the shipbuilder. While at first I only had the S.S. City of New York and its ship's builder, which was my first guess, to my surprise however, when finding out about the Themistocles, Harland and Wolff was listed. After reading through, it did confirm that she was indeed built by the same company that built the Olympic Class. This also confirmed that even her enterior looked like 1 to 1 to the Harland and Wolff's design.

The third and final reason - the Demosthenes. This ship was the first that I'd discovered. Both her and the Themistocles look exactly the same on the outside, but had one distinct feature - the height of a cowl vent near the aft end of the main superstructure. To check my in-depth about this it's in a post #16.
​

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Update:​

Correction: 'Awning' instead of 'Owning'​

This is more on correcting what was written in the threads #16, #18 and #19. The part on which I didn't spell 'awning' correctly and replaced it with owning. While I was writing all three of the aforementioned posts I didn't have a good idea of how these types of structures that offer protection of the sun were called. Instead I went with 'owning' which doesn't make any sense in the context.

While I can't go back and edit the posts, I'll just put it here as a correction to a mistake I didn't pick up on.​

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Note: this is gonna go in line with contemporary sketch I did of this angle.

After finding out that the Aberdeen Line's Themistocles was the one to be filmed and used in the British Pathé's newsreel about Titanic sinking and survivors in 1912, I stumbled across this flipped shot from Roy Ward Baker's A Night to Remember docudrama.

I'll use it as it does in fact reveal something interesting. What to me at first looked like a distant dock or a hill behind a sailing vessel, it's another ship. Looking up close, it appears to be a steam ship. While obscured, it's easy to make out a funnel the forward funnel between the foremast and the bowsprit of the barque.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

After finding an Aberdeen Line's notable ship, the Themistocles, I was able to find and identify the fourth funnel liner in the same newsreel. As noted by Dan Parkes to be Lusitania, on his site about the Olympic Class film and Titanic's First Officer William McMaster Murdoch.

On a section of identifying these two ships, it's written as "Some newsreels also include the above two shots, both of which are neither Titanic or Olympic class ships. The shot on the left of crowds waving goodbye to a ship departing is of ship that is yet to be identified. The ship on the right is most likely the SS Lusitania."
So after checking the site again, concluding the search for the Themistocles in the same newsreel, I went to British Pathe's online catalogue, and agreed. The main difference between the Mauretania and Lusitania is the forward solid bulk on the bow. On Mauretania it was longer while it was short on Lusitania. And to my surprise, the ship's bow bulk does match that of Lusitania on this newsreel.
Source to this still below: TITANIC survivors
And Newsreels, video, archive, film, footage, stills - British Pathé

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Update: A ferry (?) leaving the Aberdeen Line's Themistocles

Going back to this reel, I'm still trying to figure out from what type of boat Themistocles was filmed from. At a glance, it looks like a passenger ferry to me, just based on a height. It looks a tad smaller compared to an Aberdeen liner.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

After going through this thread I decided to do an article by compiling all of the findings I'd discovered into one. And so I have. But I decided to remove the ferry one and a sailing ship in the background for a reason.

 

[Dan E. Parkes]

This is excellent, Milos. I think you should send it to Phil Hind here on ET and get the article published on the website. It is this kind of research that really benefits the entire community. Thanks so much for your hard work on this.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Of course.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

To complete this thread, barring a ferry(?) in the foreground, I decided to do this collage using a H1400 plate and a screencapture I took from British Pathé's reel that can be found in this thread.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

While going through my article about SS Themistocles, I decided to change its title and adjust the text size to be more readable.