About Cabin numbers


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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

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I'm not sure whether or not is has been firmly established that the Dickinson Bishops were in B-49. They may well have occupied B-47.
Have a look at the ET cabin allocations..see what they suggest.
It may have been unoccupied. Or else it was occupied by someone who paid a fairly high price for their cabin but the location is unknown such as the Meyers.
Hope this helps
Ben
 
Dec 27, 2000
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Thanks for your help! Mrs Dickinson-Bishop apparently stated B-47 in the enquiry, but it is thought that there was an error of some kind. I am interested because I am taking part in a virtual Titanic voyage in April, and am 'occupying' B-47, I wondered who really did have the cabin.
Laura
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Ben,

What makes you think B-47 would have been an expensive room? As with the other 3-berth Inside rooms on B-deck the advertized rate was the same as the 2-berth Inside rooms on C-deck - 33 pounds each for 2 passengers. Both the Meyers and the Bishops paid more than that. - B-49 was 45 pounds each for 2 passengers.

But price alone does not tell us which rooms people were in. The Thayers and the Wideners had the same type of accommodations, but the Wideners paid about 100 pounds more.

Hope this helps,
Lester
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Lester,
Oops, I must have misread the ist class passengers "high detail" list..read too high or something!
I think the difference with the Wideners and the Thayers is that three Wideners had bathroom facilities. C-80 and C-82 were on either side of a bathroom. John B and Marion Thayer had a bathroom but not Jack. His stateroom, C-70 was in the middle of three i.e there was a stateroom either side. It was the same with the Minahans.
They did not have private bathroom facilities like the Wideners nextdoor.
I was just working on the lifeboats when Christmas intervened!
Will have the figures soon

Regards
Ben
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Ben,

If you work out how to book let me know. I could not get in either.

I'm confused with what you say about the Wideners and the Thayers and bathrooms. There was a bathroom and wardrobe complex between C-80 and C-82 for the Wideners and the same between C-68 and C-70 for the Thayers. As you say the Minahans in C-78 had a middle room; but C-70 was not a middle room. C-72 was.

Hope this helps. Looking forward to your further lifeboat comments.

With all good wishes for the New Year, Century, Millennium,
Lester
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Lester,
Looking at the deckplans, you're right about C-70. It had adjoining bathroom/wardrobe facilities. Perhaps the interior of the widener cabins were more ornate. Do you have "An illustrated history". You will see from the detailed de-luxe suite plan that the interiors differ.
I agree with you about trying to establish a passenger's cabin from the price. W.T. Stead paid only £26 11s for his large cabin on C-deck and Thornton Davidson paid £52 for his de luxe stateroom on B-deck (unless Hays contributed to the cost).
Having said that I am fairly confident in placing Dr. Arthur J. Brewe in A-17. Sir Cosmo Duff-Gordon paid the exact same price (£39 11s..I think) for the equivelent cabin on the port side, A-16. As far as I know nobody else paid that price.
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
Personally I would think that placing passenger in cabins according to their ticket price is a VERY dangerous game. For example, Brandeis. With that price he could easily end up in a B deck suite. However he was given a stingy B10. Unless the '10' was a misprint of '70', Brandeis is a good example of why not to place passengers in cabins according to their price.

As for the Widener cabins, I think they were two of the 14 decorated (i.e. period) suites on C deck. C70 was also certainly one of them, decorated in Modern Dutch, with a brass bed.

W. T. Stead did not pay £26 11s for C87. He originally was in a smaller cabin (possibly on C deck, a cabin similar to C99 and possibly between the 2nd and 3rd funnel casing). Such a cabin would have cost him £26 11s, and he later moved to C87. I don’t know if he had to pay the extra cost, or if his popularity would have issued it to him free of charge.

As for the Davidsons and Hays'. They would have had to pay a very large sum, but I think they were some friends of the White Star Line, something connected with railways (I'm not too familiar with the story, Alan Hustak would know more), thus they were only required to pay the minimum fee and were given suites.

There were all sorts of exceptions, meals, luggage .... friends, discounts.

Daniel.
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
Sorry, I just checked the plans. I'm not 100% sure which C deck cabins were actually suites that were decorated in various styles.

I can say for sure that C55-57-62-63-64-65-67-70-72-74 are. Also, I was mistaken, C80 was not decorated in period style, it was the same style as C68 and a whole score of other cabins. If any aft cabins were decorated, I think C82 and 84 were and thus 75 and 77, but I'm not sure about 79, 81, 83, 86, 88, 90. On the Olympic the corresponding cabins (although they had different numbers) were decorated in period styles, but they had 2, 3-foot wide berths arranged as in cabin C70 and they had sofas. The above aft C deck cabins mentioned do not have sofas.

Also if C83 was decorated in a style, then the Harrises seem to pay a rather low price for it, however the people on the other side such as the Douglas', Frauenthals and Berthe Mayne seem to have paid adequate prices for a period decorated suite.

Daniel.
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Hi Daniel,

I've enjoyed reading your posts concerning the cabin numbers. I think we discussed the Emil Brandeis situation in a private e-mail many months ago.

For those who may not be familiar, it was reported by Spencer Silverthorne that he and other department store buyers enjoyed cocktails in Emil Brandeis' suite on the last night of the sinking. It is doubtful that six men could enjoy their brandy and cigars in B-10.

As you mentioned, Daniel, the amount that Mr. Brandeis paid certainly enabled him to occupy better accommodation. Given Silverthorne's memoirs, it rather confirms the possibility. The cabin list may have been in error in reporting B-10, or Brandeis may have upgraded his room after the cabin list was printed, and before the White Star Line's final passage fare list was finalized.

Just a thought....

Regards,

Mike Findlay
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Michael,

That is very new and helpful information about Brandeis/Silverthorne. I am always searching for new passenger connections. Did Brandeis and the buyers form acquaintance on board ship or had they known eachother previously?
Were Harris and Baumann present too? They were the only people I knew that Brandeis knew.

Regards

Ben
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Hi Ben,

I'm glad you learned a bit more about the Brandeis/Silverthorne connection.

Unfortunately, I cannot determine whether or not Brandeis and the department store buyers knew one another prior to sailing on the Titanic. In my opinion, they probably met on board. They could have been assigned the same table in the dining room or perhaps enjoyed a cigar in the smoking room one night during the voyage. This meeting could have led the men to become better acquainted with one another. Then again, Silverthorne was a diamond buyer for Nugent's Department Store in St. Louis. Brandeis' department store in Omaha was very well known so perhaps Silverthorne recognized or knew of the Omaha merchant. It must be mentioned that Mr. Brandeis was NOT a buyer for the family department store. He was THE man, and I'm sure Silverthorne and the Gimbels buyers enjoyed being in the company of a department store tycoon.

I don't know whether Harris and Baumann were present for the cocktail party. Personally, I doubt they were there but we are always learning more about this historical event. My hunch is that Mr. Harris never attended at all but retired early with his wife to their cabin - given Rene Harris' injury. Baumann is an enigma during the voyage.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,

Michael Findlay
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Hi Ben,

I'm glad you learned a bit more about the Brandeis/Silverthorne connection.

Unfortunately, I cannot determine whether or not Brandeis and the department store buyers knew one another prior to sailing on the Titanic. In my opinion, they probably met on board. They could have been assigned the same table in the dining room or perhaps enjoyed a cigar in the smoking room one night during the voyage. This meeting could have led the men to become better acquainted with one another. Then again, Silverthorne was a diamond buyer for Nugent's Department Store in St. Louis. Brandeis' department store in Omaha was very well known so perhaps Silverthorne recognized or knew of the Omaha merchant. It must be mentioned that Mr. Brandeis was NOT a buyer for the family department store. He was THE man, and I'm sure Silverthorne and the Gimbels buyers enjoyed being in the company of a department store tycoon.

I don't know whether Harris and Baumann were present for the cocktail party. Personally, I doubt they were there but we are always learning more about this historical event. My hunch is that Mr. Harris never attended at all but retired early with his wife to their cabin - given Rene Harris' injury. Baumann is an enigma during the voyage.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,

Michael Findlay
 
Dec 13, 1999
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Michael Findlay: Would you please contact me by email. I have a question or two that might be too personnal to ask on the message board. It has to do with things we've already discussed together back in April 2000, when you used to work with your [email protected] email address. I thank you in advance.

All the best,

Charles Provost
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Michael,

Thanks for your help. This new stuff is all very interesting to me! It seems a possibilty that all the buyers were assigned to the same table, (not McCarthy and Hilliard) If Brandeis was invited to dine with Mr and Mrs Harris in the A la Carte restaurant on the last night, that could explain why he did not sign the menu with the others.
I have always placed Baumann on the table with the Harris' during the voyage, including the last night.
I suppose George Graham would have joined the Gimbels buyers in Brandeis' suite?

On a different subject, the Fr. Browne photo. you very kindly helped me out by ruling out the silveys, the Spencers and the Taussigs as being the "A-deck couple".
If you could spare any photos of them, I would really appreciate it. On the other hand, if they were given to you in confidence and/or you had a hard time getting them yourself, I fully understand any reluctance you may have to share them. E-mail me privately if you wish.

Thanks again
Regards

Ben
 
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Derek T. Bowbanks

Guest
John James Borebank, Cabin D-22 (1st Class passenger, my GGUncle,)l am led to believe he sailing back to Canada with a Motor Car as cargo on board Titanic, cannot find any confirmation of this, can anyone else put some light on this me please.
l would be grateful,
Many thanks.
Derek T. Bowbanks at [email protected]
 
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Gevers Sara

Guest
I'm sure that if I understood anything about this cabin conversation,I would say something usefull now. But I don't,yet...
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Sara, the idea here was to figure out who occupied what cabins on board the ship. The only surviving list of cabin allocations known was an incomplete list of 1st Class cabin assignments found on the body of steward Herbert Cave. (It's available here on ET.) So as you can see, there's a lot of room for speculation.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Richard Dobrenel

Guest
Hi Michael,
I cannot understand how such a company (White Star Line seems to be very famous at that time in luxury journeys) did not keep a passengers' list in its offices, in Southampton, Cherbourg, Paris, or somewhere else. Is there really no archives about such an important thing???
I thank you in advance. Richard
 
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