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Timothy Brandsoy

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If I read correctly, first class passengers had access to all public areas of the ship (including 2nd and 3rd class areas) how did they get in and back? Some sections were gated. Where the 1st class allowed to "go slumming"? It would seem to defeat the purpose if immigrants were quarantined for health issues. Of course Jack Dawson merely put on a gentleman's coat and it gave him full access to the ship ;-)
 

Dave Hudson

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Timothy

From what I understand, slumming by first class was permitted, but highly frowned upon. The crew certainly wouldn't open a sealed gate at a passenger's whim. If they wanted to slum, they could find their own way. There were many points of access to the lower decks. The primary one was the Scotland Road entrance on E Deck, but there is much speculation as to whether the door was kept locked or if there was even a door there at all. My personal belief is that there was a simple single door kept unlocked (stewards used this door daily to get to their quarters, and it would have been very inconvenient for them to constantly unlock and re-lock the door. Besides, every steward would have had to have a key, and that's downright excessive).

However, I'm sure that someone else could answer your question in more detail.

David
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Well, let's remember that good ol' Jack was a fictional character. As to slumming, I don't know that it was permitted, but it certainly was considered very bad form. It didn't stop anybody from doing it though.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Erik Wood

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If I recall rightly it was immigration law that kept the third class segregated from the 1st and 2nd. If this is the case then I doubt the first ever made it down to the third class, howeve, second class could have been easy access.

Erik
 
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Stefan Christiansson

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If the first class passenger could sneak into 3rd class, wouldn't that make it possible for 3rd class passengers to sneak into 1st class.
If the doors weren't looked wouldn't they have a problem with people beeing were they were not supposed to be?
I know if I was a third class kid I would definitly open all doors not locked.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Well, one in 3rd Class might try to sneak into 1st Class, but I doubt they would escape being noticed and hustled back in short order. If nothing else, the poorer quality of clothing would tend to be a dead givaway.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Martin Pirrie

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In 1912, 1st Class passengers would not have wanted to see, nor wondered about, the style of accommodation a lesser class had available. The demarcation between the social classes was quite rigid not only at sea but also on land. Owners of big estates and houses, would no more consider wandering about their servants quarters than we would today wander into a stranger’s house, "to look round". The Master could easily live in a house for years without knowing what life was like downstairs. In this respect, the TV series "Upstairs, Downstairs", gives a rather too rosy picture of downstairs life in a big house at the turn of the century.
 
May 3, 2002
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On the Lusitnaia's last voyage there are accounts of 2nd and 3rd class gaining access to the 1st class areas. One occaision being the ship's concert the night before the sinking.

As the 3rd class dinning room was gutted for extra cargo space I understand that 3rd were fed in 2nd. Also being an eastward voyage immigration regs would not apply.

On TITANIC the exception I believe is for Sunday service.

If I am wrong about this please let me know.

Martin
 
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Stefan Christiansson

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I thought there were separate services in all three classes on Sunday the 14th.

Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Eric Sauder

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Nov 12, 2000
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Hi, Martin:

"As the 3rd class dinning room was gutted for extra cargo space...."

That's one of those myths that Colin Simpson started with his book (for "book" read "fantasy novel") back in the early 1970s. In the early 1990s, when I was corresponding with third-class survivor Elsie Hook, I specifically asked her where she ate her meals. I sent her and her brother Frank photocopies of pictures of the second- and third-class Dining Rooms, and they were both most emphatic that it was in the third-class Dining Room, not the one in second class. Elsie also recalled that, just before the torpedo struck, she placed a letter in the third-class mail box just down the staircase by the Dining Room through which she had to walk to get to the mail box.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Please don't believe what you read in Simpson's book. There is no basis in fact for a lot of it. Unfortunately, a lot of other books and documentaries have taken their cue from Simpson and repeated many of his mistakes.

Eric Sauder
 
Dec 7, 2000
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It's like the switch theory. One person says it, with little basis ... now EVERYONE is talking about it. It's taking FAR more clearing up this misinformation than it took to inject it into people's heads!
 
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Hello Martin,

I do not believe that the Sunday service in first class on the Titanic could be accessed by the lower classes. There was indeed a service held in each class that Sunday, and it would make no sense to allow passengers of a lower class to attend a service in a higher class when there was one held in all three classes.


Cheers,
happy.gif


-B.W.
 
May 3, 2002
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Thank you to Eric, Stefan, Brandon and Daniel.
It is so irritating when misinformation is created ie. Simpson. It creates doubt on so much else which does not help any serious historiographic work. I am trying to write a serious paper on how the LUSITANIA did sink using the information available.

Was any of the LUSI's fore decks gutted? Dow is qouted commenting on it but maybe that is embellishment also?

thanks

Martin
 

Dan Cherry

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Dec 14, 1999
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The passenger rules and regulations book provided by the WSL states that first class passengers were not allowed in second or third class spaces, and vice versa, because of quarrantine regulations.
Of course, this doesn't explain why second class passengers were allowed to tour first class before sailing time.
 
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Stefan Christiansson

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I wasn't aware that second class passengers were allowed to tour the first class before sailing.
Is this a confirmed fact?

Very interesting info.
 

Dave Gittins

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Certainly some second class toured first class areas on April 10th. That's why we have photos of Lawrence Beesley and a friend in the gym. It pays to advertise!
 
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Timothy Brandsoy

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Weren't they allowed to tour first class because they were holding first class tickets on other "lesser" ships, and were transfered to Titanic because of the coal strike? I think I read it here somewhere!

TimB
 

Dave Gittins

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I don't know about Beesley, but his friend wasn't even a passenger. There seems to have been quite a few people wandering about before sailing. Francis Browne had a friend who stayed until a bugle call signalled that it was time for visitors to leave.

In those days, they were more casual about visitors than they are today. When but a little lad, I had no trouble going on board liners in which relatives were travelling and looking around until nearly sailing time.

(And no cracks about the Great Eastern!)
 

Pat Cook

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Apr 26, 2000
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Great Eastern? I was going to mention Noah's Ark!
Then I thought no, either I or Whitfield would've seen you during the trip.

Quite right about Beesley - he mentions that two friends came (from Exeter) to see him off and they were allowed to see not only the gynmasium but also the dining saloons, (of course) the libraries and visit the boat deck.

Best regards, O M
Cook
 
Aug 29, 2000
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Marshall Drew confirmed the fact that second class was allowed a pre-sailing tour of the deluxe area. He recalled vividly the gymnasium. It was indeed a goodwill, smart publicity move on White Star's part.
 
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