There's no way that Hart was in boat 8. His own evidence is perfectly clear. He merely left his first group of passengers near boat 8, which was already being lowered when he got there. He's quite clear on who the crewmembers in boat 15 were.
9952. How many people of your lot did you take up the first time you went up this course to
the boat deck ? –Somewhere about 30.
9953, All women and children of the third class? –Yes, on that occasion, on the first occasion.
9954. And having got them to the boat deck, do you remember whereabouts on the boat deck
you took them to ? –Yes. I took them to boat No. 8, which was at that time being lowered.
9955. That is the fourth boat on the port side? –Yes.
9956. Practically opposite the second funnel, or a little more forward than the second funnel ?
– Yes.
9957. Did you leave them there ? –I left them there and went back again.
9958. And when you went back what happened then ? –But on the way of my getting back
other passengers were coming along, third-class passengers. They were also being shown the
way to the boats: Amongst them were females –the husbands and father's were with them.
9959. Who was showing them the way ? –One by the name of Cox.
9960. Is he a steward ? –Yes.
9961. One of your colleagues ? –One of the third– class stewards,
9962. Was Cox saved, do you know ? –No.
9963. Did they follow the same route to go to the boat deck ? –Well, by the way he was
taking them they must have done.
9964. You returned to your people ? –I returned to my own part of the ship.
9965. Did you bring up any more ? –Yes, about 25. I had some little trouble in getting back
owing to the males wanting to get to the boat deck.
9966. The men ? –Yes. After the word was passed round for women and children, I was
delayed a little time in getting a little band together that were willing to go to the boats
9967. A band of women and children ? –Yes.
9968. How many did you gather ? –Somewhere about 25.
9969. Were those all people from the rooms you were responsible for ? –No, also from other
sections.
9970. Were they all third class passengers ? –Yes.
9971. Did you guide them by the same route ? –Yes.
9972. Where did you take them to ? –I took them to the only boat that was left then, boat No.
15.
9973. This is an important thing. You say the only boat that was left? –That I could see.
9974. Do you mean the only boat that was left on either side of the ship ? –I came along the
starboard side of the vessel and on that side of the vessel that was the only remaining boat.
9975. That is the aftermost boat on the starboard side ? –Yes, the last boat on the starboard
side.
9976. That is the boat we have had some evidence about this morning. Can you tell me whether
at that time there were any boats on the port side ? –I cannot say, I did not go; the last boat I
saw on the port side launched was when I took my first lot of passengers to boat No. 8.
9977. At that time when you took your lot of passengers to boat No. 8 on the port side were
there any other boats left on the port side ? –It is like this. From boat No. 8 I believe there is a
big square right amidships. I did not look further.
9978. You mean there is a big empty space? – Yes.
9979. Of course boat No. 8 is one of the forward lot of boats ? –Yes.
9980. You would come up by the main companion way, and coming up by the main companion
way would come up almost opposite boat No. 8 ? –Yes.
9981. And so you went straight to it ? –Yes.
9982 You really cannot tell us whether at that time the after boats on the port side were still
there or not ? –I cannot tell you.
9983. And when you came up the second time you say you went to the starboard side ? –I
came up on the starboard side. It was on the starboard side that I came up. I went across in the
first place to the port, because at that time they were lowering away the port boats.
9984. You mean the first time you came on the boat deck ? –Yes, and on my return to the
deck the second time, I could see that there were no boats being lowered away from the port.
9985. You could ? –Yes, from the open space which is right opposite. I then took them to the
starboard side. There was on that side one remaining boat, No. 15.–
9986. I see that in order to get from the first-class companion up which you came to boat No.
15 you would come out on the boat deck, if you look at the model, just in front of the second
funnel, and you would have to walk right back to the aftermost boat, which we see there. That is
right is it not ? –Yes.
9987. And you could see, of course that there were no boats left until you got to No. 16 ? –On
the starboard side there were no boats left except that one.
9988. When you got with these people to No. 15 was there room for them in it? – Yes, they
were placed in it.
9989. Now this is on the boast deck ? –Yes.
9990. Not on A deck ? –No.
9991. Do you mean that these people were put into it from the boat deck ? –From the boat
deck. The boat was lowered right flush with the rail on the boat deck.
9992. From the davits ? –From the davits to the level of the rail to enable the people to get in
easier.
9993. I had better tell you why, because it helps us all. We have had other evidence, you see,
and it is not very clear from the other evidence where the people got in ? –Am I clear ?
9994. You are clear. Are you quite clear in your own mind that they got in from the boat deck
? –Yes.
9995. (The Commissioner.) 25 ? –There were more than 25, but I took up 25.
9996. Your 25 got into No. 15 boat from the boat deck ? –Yes,
9997. (The Solicitor General.) I daresay you can tell us a bit further about it. When you got to
boat 15 with these 25 people, were there any people in boat No. 15 already ? –Yes.
9998. About how many, or who ? –Well, I can give you a rough estimate.
9999. Yes, of course ? – The last 25 were passed in from the boat deck.
10000. Your 25 ? –Yes.
10001. (The Commissioner.) Were they mixed, women and children, or were they women ?
–There were three children with them, my Lord.
10002. Twenty-two women and three children ? – The boat was then lowered to A deck. We
there took in about five women, three children, and one man. He had a baby in his arms.
10003. Five women, three children and a man with a baby from A deck ? –Yes; the boat was
then lowered away.
10004 Into the water ? –Yes.
10005. You were in her, as I understand ? –Yes.
10006. Did you get in her from the boat deck? – Yes.
10007. At the time when your second contingent got in ? –After, yes.
10008. How many people do you think were in boat No. 15 after she got into the water, and
when she was saved ? –I would not like to vouch for its accuracy, but I can give you an
estimate.
10009. What is your estimate ? –I should say somewhere about 70 after we left A deck.
10010. Another witness has told us he thinks 68? –Well, it is a rough estimate; it is pretty near
it
10011. Now let us see if you can help us as to how many members of the crew there were in
boat No. 15. Where is yourself, of course ? –Yes.
10012. Can you tell us how many other members of the crew there were in boat No. 15? –I
should say about 13 or 14 all told of the crew.
10013. There is a man named Cavell, a little short man, who is a trimmer ? –Yes.
10014. Do you know him ? – Yes.
10015. He was in the boat ? –Yes.
10016. Do you know a bath room steward named Rule ? –Yes, I know him.
10017. He was in the boat ? –I saw him get out of the boat.
10018. That will prove it. Then a man named Diamond we have heard of; he was a fireman?
– Yes.
10019. Was he in the boat ? –Yes.
10020. Who was in charge of her ? –This Diamond–at least, he had all the say, and so I take
it he was in charge.
10021. I suppose so. Then I think there is only one other name I have heard, that is Lewis.
Was there a man named Lewis, said to be a third class steward? Do you know about that ? –I
no doubt know them by sight, but we had nearly 60 third class stewards, and it is rather difficult
to know their names.
10022. Then we have heard something about somebody called Jack Stewart, Is that somebody
else ? –Well, I know the name, but I would not like to vouch for him being in the boat, as I did
not see him.
10023. I want to be sure we do justice to you. You got your second contingent 20 or 25, into
the boat. They got in before you did ? –Yes.
10024. Now, were any directions given about your getting into the boat ? –Yes, I was ordered
to get into the boat.
10025. Please, tell us about it ? –After I saw my people in, the officer who had charge of the
lowering away of that boat––
10026. That was Mr. Murdoch, was it not ? –Yes, Mr. Murdoch. It was rather dark on the
deck. He said, “What are you ?” I said, “One of the crew. I have just brought these people up.”
He said, “Go ahead; get into the boat with them.”
10027. And that is how you came to get in? – Yes.
10028. Let us take your estimate–13. or 14. of the crew out of some 70? –Yes.
10029. That will leave us something like 55 others ? –Yes, or 57.
10030. You have told us of that 55 or 56, some 25 were your contingent, your women and
children that you brought up ? –Yes.
10031. That is 25 out of the 55; that leaves about another 30 ? –Yes.
10032. And you have told us that, besides, there were taken in from the A deck five women,
three children, and a man with a baby ? –Yes.
10033. That knocks off 10 more ? –Yes.
10034. That leaves 15 more people. Now, can you give us any idea whether those 15 remaining
people were men, women, or children, or what ? – Yes.
10035. Will you tell us ? –There were about three male passengers and the rest were women.
10036. (The Commissioner.) Do the three that you talk about include the man who came on
board with a baby in his arms ? –No.
10037. Then there were four men ? –There were four men.
10038. Four men and 13 or 14 of the crew ? –Yes.
10039. Then out of the whole boatload of 70 there were about 18 men ? –Yes.
10040. (The Solicitor-General.) And it follows that if that is right there would be about 50
women and children ? –Yes.
10041. Your people that you were responsible for were third-class people ? –Yes.
10042. Can you tell us about the people that were taken in from the A deck, the five women
and three children and the man with the baby; do you know at all what class they belonged to ?
–Yes.
10043. What were they ? –They were also third class.
10044. And those people who were on the boat before your contingent got into it, what class
did they belong to as far as you know ? –I should imagine they were either first class or
second.
10045. Then it comes to this, that as far as you can tell us, it was either first or second class people who were in that boat before you got there. Then your people got in and some more
people got in from A deck, and those people you think were third class people ? –Yes.
