Alfred Nichols

[Samuel Halpern]

That translates to a statement that Nichols was active with the forward starboard boats before Lifeboats #8 and #6 were lowered; I am not sure of you included the early "lowering" of Lifeboat #4 to the A-deck in that statement.

Arun, when I say lowered without qualification, I mean launched; i.e., lowered with people in it. And when I refer to launch time, I'm talking about the time the order was given tower away with people in it. The launch time and the time the boat reaches the water are of course two very different things. Sorry if I caused any confusion in any of my posts.

I still cannot get over the bit of common sense I hope I have over all this that it would have been ridiculous and extremely dangerous to Titanic to open an E deck or D deck gangway door, and that Nichols must have realised this.

I agree with you Julian. What was Lightoller thinking?

Question everything. Never assume anyone has a correct recollection, and firstly assume what was said might not be accurate or truthful.

IMO, things need to be corroborated whenever possible, and the credibility of sources questioned.

I found that statement from Lowe rather interesting, as it seems that he was told about Nichols going down to open gangway doors. Question is, where and from whom did he hear about it? We know that it is likely he was close to Nichols when he was around boats #3 and #1 because others put them both there.

 

[Julian Atkins]

My hunch would be that the Lowe reference would be a conversation Lightoller would have had with Lowe after the event on the Carpathia or whilst they were accommodated together in New York, then Washington. The 'whitewashing' was principally by the hand of Lightoller, excepting the British Board of Trade.

Lots of witnesses only answered specifically the questions asked of them, and did not explain further, or add details they were not asked about.

In respect of Lightoller, he made no mention in 1911 of what he claimed in the first edition of his autobiography in the 1930s of Phillips.

Rostron made no mention of The Californian as being the ship seen in his autobiography in the 1930s at the time of the 1912 Inquiries.

Boxhall didn't implicate The Californian until his reported 'Nautical Magazine' article in 1959, then provided a contrary account in 1962 as to what he did in 1912 at the Inquiries.

So, I would submit what was revealed to the 1912 Inquiries, and the Ryan Case, was clearly partial, and probably contrived.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

If Nichols received that order from Lightoller, IMO it was likely before Lightoller started loading it. It probably was sometime before the first boat #7 was lowered.

It is possible that Lightoller - who was one of the Officers who considered loading a lifeboat to its rated capacity was unsafe - considered the gangway door task before any lifeboats were launched on either side. But looking at the sequence of events and Lightoller's related testimony do you think the definitive order could have been given before Lifeboat #7 was lowered? I don't think so.

Let us look at what the Second Officer said later:

• He testified very clearly that it was after Lifeboat #4 was lowered to the A-deck and he was supervising loading of Lifeboat #6 that he gave Nichols that gangway door order. Why would he have made that up?
• On both sides of the Atlantic Lightoller testified that after receiving the order, Nichols acknowledged it ("Aye, aye sir") and went off, presumably to carry out the order; Lightoller testified that he never saw Nichols again. All that could NOT have happened before Lifeboat #7 was launched.
• Lookout George Symons testified that he saw and worked with Nichols during the loading and launching of Lifeboats #3 and #1. Incidentally, Lowe was also present on the starboard forward side in that timeframe and would have seen Nichols.
• As Thomas' picture showed, the D-deck gangway door on the port side remains open on the wreck and its condition and that of the grill gate within indicates that the door was opened by human hands and not the result of either the break-up or impact of the bow section with the ocean floor. In other words, Nichols and his men did carry out Lightoller's order - or at least a version of it.

So, if Nichols had already carried out the gangway door order before they even launched Lifeboat #7, many other survivors should have seen and remembered the Boatswain after he returned to the boat deck. He was seen and positively identified while working with loading of both Lifeboats #3 and #1 by surviving lookout George Symons. It is highly unlikely that under those circumstances other than Johnstone (who might have just seen Nichols but I accept did not receive the star tip from him) and Barrett, no one else mentioned seeing him later. Moreover, Lifeboat #7 was definitely the first boat lowered and so if the port side D-deck Gangway Door was already open by then, someone in Lifeboat #6 would definitely have noticed and commented about it; as Thomas showed, #6 would have descended right past that doorway but no one - Hichens, Fleet, Molly Brown, Major Peuchen, Helen Candee etc - mentioned an open gangway door.

By the way, it seems 5/O Lowe was also told about Nichols and some of the deck crew being sent below to open gangway doors. I found that statement from Lowe rather interesting, as it seems that he was told about Nichols going down to open gangway doors. Question is, where and from whom did he hear about it? We know that it is likely he was close to Nichols when he was around boats #3 and #1 because others put them both there.

Yes, I recall reading about Lowe mentioning it in his testimony but seem to be unable to find the reference right now. IMO, there are a few possibilities through which the 5/O could have known about it. For starters, both Nichols and he were present during the launch of Lifeboat #1 and appear to have left the starboard side within a very short time of each other. I believe that Nichols himself went to the port side where Lightoller was supervising loading of Lifeboat #6, received the Gangway Door order within a couple of minutes and left (never to be seen by the 2/O again). Since we know that after #1 was lowered Lowe also crossed to the port side, he might have gone past when Lightoller was giving Nichols the gangway door order; or, Lightoller might have told Lowe about it some 15 minutes later as the two men worked with Lifeboats #12 and #14 respectively. Finally, since both Lightoller and Lowe survived, the former might have mentioned it to the latter (among other things) on board the Carpathia. With so many passengers and crew dead in the disaster, neither Officer could have realized the significance of Nichols' fate at the time and so from their perspective his death would have just been one of many unfortunate things that happened that night.

I am trying to keep an open mind on this and dealing with the obvious common sense of not opening a gangway door on deck E or D or any other deck whilst Titanic was sinking. I still cannot get over the bit of common sense I hope I have over all this that it would have been ridiculous and extremely dangerous to Titanic to open an E deck or D deck gangway door, and that Nichols must have realised this.

There is no question that Lightoller's gangway door order lacked common sense. That coming from an experienced officer who later testified that he considered loading lifeboats to their BoT rated capacity was "dangerous" even though they had been so tested before. Lightoller should have considered not only the risks of opening a heavy, outward opening gangway door in a ship sinking by the bow but also the danger and impracticality of loading people though it under those circumstances. The vague manner in which he testified about it makes me think that although he did not admit it, Lightoller really had meant the portside E-deck door when he gave the order, which was both a deck lower and further forward than the D-deck door that is now open on the wreck. IMO Nichols in his wisdom decided not to open the former door and went up a deck instead; but as it turned out, even that was not a safe or practical option.

Arun, when I say lowered without qualification, I mean launched; i.e., lowered with people in it. And when I refer to launch time, I'm talking about the time the order was given tower away with people in it. The launch time and the time the boat reaches the water are of course two very different things.

Understood and thanks. But from the perspective of survivors and victims of the disaster - and of course for our own interest - the time a particular lifeboat reached the sea and rowed away is of greater significance than the other logistics involved. To that end, IMO it is more than likely that Lifeboat #8 was behind Lifeboat #6 in terms of crew orders, preparation and early part of loading but events transpired in such a way that #8 "overtook" #6 at some stage and reached the water almost 10 minutes before Peuchen's boat. I know that you don't agree and for the present at least, we'll have to disagree on that point. Perhaps further research by all concerned could change the outlook of one of us.

How did this open D deck door get raised from the wreck? It would have been on a hinge, and on one side the closing levers are entirely missing?

I was not aware that the port side D-deck gangway door had been dismantled from the wreck and brought to the surface. I must have missed that somewhere; from Thomas' photo I assumed that it was still in place and a very important piece of evidence at that.

To summarize from Boatswain Nichols' perspective, I do not believe that he received the definitive order about the Gangway Door before Lifeboat #7 was lowered, although it is possible that Lightoller had mentioned the possibility to him at the time. The fact that Nichols was seen by Symons during the loading of Lifeboats #3 and #1 (and lowering of the former) places the boatswain on the starboard forward side at least within the 12:50am to 01:05am timeframe, along with the surviving 5/O Lowe. Since Lightoller clearly testified that he gave Nichols that order during the loading of Lifeboat #6 (which was definitely lowered after Lifeboat #7 irrespective of the actual time) and the boatswain left to carry out the order never to be seen by the 2/O again, IMO it happened around 01:05am and after all 4 forward starboard lifeboats had been launched. This is further supported by the fact that Lightoller not only said that there was a slight port list just as he was about to lower Lifeboat #6, he denied that there was any starboard list in response to a leading question about it from the examiner.

 

[George Jacub]

" Perhaps further research by all concerned could change the outlook of one of us."
Arun, since you're basing your position, by your own posts here, partly on the account of Eloise Smith, you should take into consideration what she told the New York Tribune (April 20, 1912):

"Four of us rowed while the sailor steered and we went some distance away from the Titanic."
"Our boat left the Titanic at about 12:30, and up to that time everything seemed calm and orderly on board, except that there was no system in the filling and manning of the lifeboats."

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Arun, since you're basing your position, by your own posts here, partly on the account of Eloise Smith

George, I have not the foggiest what gave you that idea; nothing could be further from the truth. Eloise Smith? Of all people, she did not cross even the remotest corner of my mind when I was posting in this thread this time. I might have mentioned her before as one of the survivors who thought that Lifeboat #8 was lowered before #6 but even then it was just one of several and certainly the least reliable of them all.

 

[George Jacub]

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This is what happens when one tries to justify a belief rather than trying to take an objective view.

Forget about newspaper accounts. There is a first-hand written account by Marie Young that she wrote while on board Carpathia.

With respect Sam, I am also basing my opinion not just on a 'belief' but on first and 'second' hand accounts of Major Peuchen, Martha Stone, Mrs Stone's maid Rose Icard, Julia Cavendish, Fahim-al-Zainni and Eloise Smith. Of those, Peuchen testified to that effect twice in the US Inquiry and we cannot simply dismiss that. Admittedly, the rest are based on newspaper accounts, but then with very few exceptions like Marie Young, even your other passenger sources are from paper accounts. It depends on whose account one chooses to accept.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Your post. Or have you forgotten.

No, I haven't forgotten that. If you read my response above to your post, I accepted that I mentioned Eloise Smith as one of those who thought that her Lifeboat #6 was the second boat. But that has absolutely nothing directly to do with this thread, which is about Boatswain Nichols and the gangway door enigma.

 

[yotsuya]

How did this open D deck door get raised from the wreck? It would have been on a hinge, and on one side the closing levers are entirely missing? (See Thomas's pics posted on here).

The open door did not get raised. My guess is that the door that was raised was one of the ones from the stern section. The plans show several doors in that area and with the way the hull has pulled away from the decks and twisted and broken, the door could easily have broken loose. Someone may have identified where it came from, but I not heard. I can only go by the ship plans and my knowledge that they have not yet (to my knowledge) tried to cut any pieces off that are still attached.

 

[yotsuya]

As for the order of the lifeboats, if there is some question I think the first thing to establish is which crew members were lowering the boats. We would have to establish their movements on deck. If there were multiple crew teams lowering different boats there might not be a good answer, but if we know where the crew was and what they were doing, then that is a more reliable indicator as to the order of the lowering than any passenger account. But if the crew accounts and locations cannot be determined then we would need to read all accounts from the lifeboats in question to see what the consensus among the passengers and crew in boats was. Not all people remember the same events the same way and sometimes you can identify who may have misremembered if their account doesn't match the others.

 

[Thomas Krom]

The open door did not get raised. My guess is that the door that was raised was one of the ones from the stern section.

There were only four gangway doors of that design, and the door that was open isn't on it's hinges at the wreck anymore for quite a while. It is the same door that was raised. No other gangway door design had the two windows the four on D-deck had. I heard of claims that it fell of it's hinges at some point in the 1990s, however I sadly currently lack the time to look into that due to my midterm exams.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

So, if Nichols had already carried out the gangway door order before they even launched Lifeboat #7, many other survivors should have seen and remembered the Boatswain after he returned to the boat deck. He was seen and positively identified while working with loading of both Lifeboats #3 and #1 by surviving lookout George Symons. It is highly unlikely that under those circumstances other than Johnstone (who might have just seen Nichols but I accept did not receive the star tip from him) and Barrett, no one else mentioned seeing him later. Moreover, Lifeboat #7 was definitely the first boat lowered and so if the port side D-deck Gangway Door was already open by then, someone in Lifeboat #6 would definitely have noticed and commented about it; as Thomas showed, #6 would have descended right past that doorway but no one - Hichens, Fleet, Molly Brown, Major Peuchen, Helen Candee etc - mentioned an open gangway door.

Was the door actually opened, or was the gate opened and the door unlocked? During the loading of the starboard forward boats, and also portside boat #6, the ship was listing to starboard. As I pointed out before, it would be very difficult to swing a heavy door open against a starboard list. What you see at the wreck site is after the bow section of the ship crashed into the sea bed which could have easily swung an unlocked door open as seen. It is highly doubtful that a gangway door would have been left opened and then unmanned while a ship was at sea.

As for Nichols' movements, boatswaine's mate Haines had this to say:

Mr. HAINES. No, sir; we were turning out the after boats while they were filling the forward ones. As soon as we finished turning
the boats out I went to my own station. I got to my own boat just in time, as they filled my boat. The boatswain [Nichols] missed his boat, No. 7. No. 7 was gone before he got there. My own boat was No. 9.
Senator SMITH. You did not see any of the other boats loaded?
Mr. HAINES. No, sir; I did not see any of them loaded. I came back just in time to take charge of my own boat.

This tends to suggest that Nichols was seen around #9 by Haines when he, Haines, came back and took charge of #9.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Was the door actually opened, or was the gate opened and the door unlocked? During the loading of the starboard forward boats, and also portside boat #6, the ship was listing to starboard. As I pointed out before, it would be very difficult to swing a heavy door open against a starboard list. What you see at the wreck site is after the bow section of the ship crashed into the sea bed which could have easily swung an unlocked door open as seen.

Interesting point. There must have been a starboard list during the launching of all the forward starboard boats but it would have then be slowly correcting itself as they progressed from #7, #5, #3 and #1. We know that Nichols worked with loading and lowering Lifeboats #3 and then #1 and by the time Lifeboat #1 reached the water, the Titanic could have been back on an even keel. While that was happening on the starboard side, they were loading Lifeboat #6 on the port side; when it was swung out into position and started loading, there was probably a diminishing starboard list. Still, as you say it could have prevented the D-deck gangway door from being pushed open. But if that indeed was the case, would Nichols and his men left it unlocked? From the reducing starboard list they would have guessed that it could soon change to a port list and would have known once that happened the unlocked door would have swung open due to gravity. So why did they not relock those doors if it was their intention not to use that route?

It is highly doubtful that a gangway door would have been left opened and then unmanned while a ship was at sea.

I agree completely; it seems like a strange and dangerous thing to do.. Can it be like Thomas Krom hypothesized - Nichols and his men decided to relock the D-deck gangway door but probably did not do it properly so that it later snapped open when the bow section hit the ocean floor. That would explain why the occupants of Lifeboat #6 did not notice any open gangway door. By then the ship's list was likely changing to an early port one just as the lifeboat descended.

 

[yotsuya]

There were only four gangway doors of that design, and the door that was open isn't on it's hinges at the wreck anymore for quite a while. It is the same door that was raised. No other gangway door design had the two windows the four on D-deck had. I heard of claims that it fell of it's hinges at some point in the 1990s, however I sadly currently lack the time to look into that due to my midterm exams.

Yes, on further research it was seen still attached in 1993, but had fallen off by 1998 when it was recovered. So this is the very door we are discussing. The level of detail on the drawings I have is minimal so I did not notice the unique window designs. I was just looking at the number of doors in the hull.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Not sure I agree with Sam about this starboard list preventing the D deck door being opened. If it swung out to being near the edge of the hull, the starboard list would keep it open. So I don't think that Sam's thesis is as sound as at first it may appear.

However, Sam is also good at getting us to test the evidence for ourselves. I very much value his approach, though my own thoughts as to how I can do this is constrained by a lack of lateral thinking on my part. I see everything in black and white without the shades in between.

Nichols and his gang were seaman, and were needed to man the lifeboats instead of no one, or fireman - who had no experience of rowing a lifeboat, or Major Peuchen doing his 'Tarzan' act in his not youthful years to get on the first port side boat to reach the sea (or was to be thought to be the first port side lifeboat at the time of lowering, as we all know the story with lifeboat 4, and what has been canvassed with lifeboat 8 on here).

I don't think Nichols was ever ordered to open a lower gangway door on E deck at anytime. Or a gangway door on D deck. Sam would probably want me to check all of Thomas's posts and much else besides, but I am only a casual observer of this thread, and as Sam and others are aware, my own peculiar interests are elsewhere.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

As for Nichols' movements, boatswaine's mate Haines had this to say:

Mr. HAINES. No, sir; we were turning out the after boats while they were filling the forward ones. As soon as we finished turning
the boats out I went to my own station. I got to my own boat just in time, as they filled my boat. The boatswain [Nichols] missed his boat, No. 7. No. 7 was gone before he got there. My own boat was No. 9.
Senator SMITH. You did not see any of the other boats loaded?
Mr. HAINES. No, sir; I did not see any of them loaded. I came back just in time to take charge of my own boat.

This tends to suggest that Nichols was seen around #9 by Haines when he, Haines, came back and took charge of #9

Agreed, but when exactly? Haines said that he and other crew members were "turning out" the aft starboard boats while others were filling the forwards ones. We know that Nichols was involved with loading of Lifeboats #3 and #1 and since Lifeboat #7 was already in the water by then, the Boatswain had literally 'missed' it as per his mate. But IMO it was out of choice because Nichols wanted to remain on board the Titanic and help with other lifeboats.

Haines's statements only indicate that Lifeboat #7 was (probably) Nichols' designated lifeboat but the boatswain did not go in it.

The boatswain [Nichols] missed his boat, No. 7. No. 7 was gone before he got there. My own boat was No. 9.

This does not necessarily suggest that Haines actually saw Nichols near Lifeboat #9, although I admit that it is possible. I have read somewhere that Lifeboat #9 was being swung out as early as 01:00am and since Murdoch, Lowe and Nichols were still with Lifeboat #1 at the time, it is possible that McElroy (who spent almost all his time on the starboard side during the sinking) was in charge of that task. After leaving the vicinity of Lifeboat #1 (perhaps when Symons arrived), Nichols could have very briefly gone to where Lifeboat #9 was being prepared, was seen by Haines and then crossed over to the port side where Lightoller was loading Lifeboat #6.

I don't think Nichols was ever ordered to open a lower gangway door on E deck at anytime. Or a gangway door on D deck.

I cannot agree with that for several reasons.

• Lightoller testified on Day 1 at the US Inquiry that he had definitely given Nichols the gangway door order and that the boatswain acknowledged it and left (to carry it out). At that stage of the investigation and not yet knowing what other survivor could say something that could throw his own testimony out of the window, Lightoller would not have risked making something like that up. As I have said before, if he wanted an excuse to explain only partially filled lifeboats he could simply and very easily have said that Captain Smith or Wilde ordered him to lower Lifeboat #6 when he did etc. Furthermore, Lightoller had already admitted that he did not consider that it was safe to fully load lifeboats while hanging from their davits and so had already otherwise committed himself on that issue.
• Lowe said that he "knew" about the boatswain and some men being sent to open gangway doors. While that information could have come to Lowe from Lightoller himself, it is also possible that the 5/O had overheard the order and/or seen Nichols leave to carry it out just as he, Lowe, was crossing over to the port side after Lifeboat #1 was launched.
• The state of the port side gangway door on D-deck and especially its interior gate on the wreck. Admittedly, I am no expert on those things but Thomas Krom is and I have carefully read the information and pictures that he has kindly shared. From what I understood, the state of the interior gate - unlocked and opened - definitely indicates human operation and couldn't have happened either during the break-up or impact of the bow section with the ocean floor. Likewise, the open state of the gangway door itself is strongly suggestive; like Thomas suggests, after opening it Nichols and his men must have realized that the sea would soon reach it and so make using it as a way to load more people impossible. So, they closed it again but - probably because of the beginnings of the port list - were unable to lock it properly; I agree with Sam that they would not have left the gangway door open but might not have realized that it was not secured after re-closing it. It could then have blown open when the bow section impacted against the ocean floor.