All Lifeboats launched....

Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
I believe that the issue of lowering a boat filled to capacity is not the strength of the davits or ropes used. Most items are designed to withstand loads of double what is expected. The difficulty is in the handling of the ropes by those doing the lowering. A good example is what happened to boat 14 as it was being lowered. Anyway, I'd still like to know the true rationale behind why the ship was equipped with collapsible boats in the first place? Has anyone researched that?
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
I believe that the issue of lowering a boat filled to capacity is not the strength of the davits or ropes used. Most items are designed to withstand loads of double what is expected. The difficulty is in the handling of the ropes by those doing the lowering. A good example is what happened to boat 14 as it was being lowered. Anyway, I'd still like to know the true rationale behind why the ship was equipped with collapsible boats in the first place? Has anyone researched that?
Yes It is curious why WSL had taken four collapsible boats? Why not six or even more specially as the ship was practically unsinkable!
 
Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
Yes It is curious why WSL had taken four collapsible boats? Why not six or even more specially as the ship was practically unsinkable!
Why take any? They had 16 boats under davits and were in compliance with the rules.
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
Come to think about the whole idea when in early discussion with H&W of having more lifeboats than the BoT requirements of 16.
Followed by talks having anything up to 64. Mr B Ismay must of thought H&W have gone crazy! No doubt the shipping companies must of realised the BoT rules on lifeboats were just years out of date base on a 10,000 ton ship. I guest the price of a collapsible boat was lot less than a wooden boat plus did not require a list of equipment as to wooden boats. So as goodwill four where just added with no training and hope never to be used. As it turn out no thanks to the BoT they prove to be a life saving for about 100.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Why take any? They had 16 boats under davits and were in compliance with the rules.
Could it have been a publicity issue? To show potential customers that WSL were so safety conscious that they were taking more lifeboats on board than the BoT requirement?

OR, could it have been a trial to see how the collapsible boats would fare in lifeboat drills etc? In light of the protest by Alexander Carlisle, WSL might have thought that BoT might review their Lifeboat regulations (which they did soon after the Titanic disaster anyway)

Speaking of new rules, how did the WSL and other lines cope with them? Their ships came in various sizes and shapes and so how did they manage to accommodate more lifeboats on existing and operational designs? More specifically, did any of them make up numbers with collapsible lifeboats?
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
Mr B Ismay must of know that 16 lifeboats was regulations set by BoT. Then hears of talk of many more lifeboats are to be added. As a business man must be saying to himself, hang on its my company will have to pay for the extra boats must be joking! Plus it does not look very good as a safety image for the practical unsinkable ship. Not to come across as some brutal heatless business man and to save face he agrees to a cheaper version of a lifeboat. Then the idea of dumping 2 on top the officers quarters and not on the boat deck with others, that is a good saying o well they will never be used. Out of sight out of mind.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Mr B Ismay must of know that 16 lifeboats was regulations set by BoT. Then hears of talk of many more lifeboats are to be added
IMO, that might have had something to do with it. Although Carlisle was unable to push through his ideas at that time, Ismay and other shipping line officials would have considered the possibility that "lifeboats for all" might become a law in the near future. Therefore, adding those 4 Collapsible lifeboats to the existing complement of 14 standard lifeboats and 2 emergency cutters might have been some sort of experiment. As it was, the Titanic sinking changed everything sooner than anyone expected.

By the way, was the Olympic carrying collapsible lifeboats before her sister ship sank on her maiden voyage?
 
Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
IMO, that might have had something to do with it. Although Carlisle was unable to push through his ideas at that time, Ismay and other shipping line officials would have considered the possibility that "lifeboats for all" might become a law in the near future. Therefore, adding those 4 Collapsible lifeboats to the existing complement of 14 standard lifeboats and 2 emergency cutters might have been some sort of experiment. As it was, the Titanic sinking changed everything sooner than anyone expected.
As well as approving the installation of the new Welin Quadrant Davits that would reduce the time of a refit to add additional lifeboats, since the Welin Davits, as we all know, could hold more than one lifeboat per davit.
By the way, was the Olympic carrying collapsible lifeboats before her sister ship sank on her maiden voyage?
She was carrying four collapsible Engelhardt lifeboats like her sister-ship, with collapsible lifeboat A and B being stacked on top of C and D on the officer's promenade instead of the roof of the officer's quarters.
 
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Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
I always understand the lifeboat arrangement was the same as Titanic in 1911-1912. O though reading Bob Read report the davits where slightly different. Olympic were singe action as Titanic double action. However after refit on Olympic in 1913 the davits were change for a smaller lifeboat and they where ones found with a fault of braking with heavy loads.
Back to the business side why spend more than is require set by the BoT? I cant imagine the Welin quadrant davits been cheaper than the standard radius arm tube davits. Therefore that must been some success in having been fitted. Personally I thought they were a brilliant design's over the standard radius arm davits. Certainty labour saving and launch time too. Now if Titanic had the standard radius tube arm davits fitted, I wander how much time would of be lost in launching the boats?
 
K

kentwildt

Member
Hello Andy,


Yes, although only 13 of the 20 lifeboats were actually placed on board the Carpathia. That was as many as she could carry. Seven boats were set adrift; 3 wooden boats (4, 14 and 15) and the collapsible ones (A, B, C, D).
I thought that one or some lifeboats were lost with people in them and did not make it to the Carpathia. Is this true?
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
I thought that one or some lifeboats were lost with people in them and did not make it to the Carpathia. Is this true?
Not true at all. Where did you get that information?

What happened was that survivors on board Collapsibles A & B were taken on board other lifeboats. There were also some Officer controlled interchanges between other boats. But all 20 lifeboats that left the sinking Titanic were accounted for and although some were not hauled on board the rescue ship, none went missing. Other than a few who sadly died due to effects of exposure despite making it into a lifeboat, all people who actually survived made it to Carpathia.
 
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Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
What was the reason why Carpathia took onboard the 13 lifeboats in the first place?
 
Samuel Halpern

Samuel Halpern

Member
What was the reason why Carpathia took onboard the 13 lifeboats in the first place?
Think about it Mike. Carpathia returned to NY with over 700 more people than she left with. In those days there were not too many ships that carried enough boats for all.
 
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Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
So, we can say captain Rostron was thinking more of safety issues that the Board of Trade ever did!
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
More I think of captain A H Rostron this an amazing person. A skill of a captain to doge icebergs and to be so well organise in the preparation of any survivors. Then think about having enough lifeboats on aboard for the 712 survivors. As 13 boats is more than enough. The 11 big boats capacity of 65 each =715. Then the two cutter boats capacity 40 each = 80. Grand total =795. He could of have well discarded one of those boats and still have enough for all. Give that man a gold medal indeed.
 
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