Mar 26, 2012
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I found a letter that Alice Cleaver wrote to Walter Lord:

"I was acting as a nurse to the two children of Mr and Mrs Allison. Having taken the position two weeks before we sailed as their own nurse decided not to go at the last moment - Lorraine was 3 years old at the time and Trevor 10 months.There is not much I can tell you in a letter. I had some difficulty in persuading Mr. Allison to get up and go to see what had happened after the crash, which they did not hear at all and thought it was my imagination. Some long time after the engines had stopped he decided to go and find out the trouble. While he was away I was warned we would have to leave the ship, so prepared the children and Mrs. Allison - but she became hysterical and I had to calm her. About that time an officer came round to close the cabins and advised us to go on deck - here met Mr. Allison outside the cabin but he seemed too dazed to speak. I handed him some brandy and asked him to look after Mrs. Allison and Lorraine and I would keep Baby, the child I managed to get off the ship, some confusion occurred outside as to which deck we should go and that is how we came separated, afterwards I learned from one of the staff that Mrs. Allison was hysterical again and that Mr. Allison had difficulty with her and I can only surmise that is how they lost their lives - as there was plenty of room in the lifeboats because people refused to leave thinking it was safer on the ship."

What are your thoughts?
 
Mar 26, 2012
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She might be, but we only have her word for this.

What about Mildred Brown? I think she wrote a letter? I'm not sure.

Personally, despite our disagreements, I'm just really glad the Allison family were portrayed. Their story is rarely told in most adaptions and documentaries. There's only three books that have a chapter dedicated to them, if not just a short paragraph - or usually nothing. I'm glad that they'll be portrayed in this mini-series, because a new generation should know their story. I'm glad Alice wasn't depicted as a child murderess this time. I've seen a sneak peak of episode four and their death will be quite graphic for television.
 

Jake Peterson

Member
Mar 11, 2012
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Iowa, USA
If I remember correctly, a movie simply called "Titanic" staring George C. Scott, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Tim Curry, portrayed Ms. Cleaver as a woman who was nuts and had premonitions about the ship. I think the movie started off with Alice having a nightmare about a sinking ship, and suddenly waking in a fright.

I guess I'm not sure why the Allisons would hire someone with mental problems in the first place. Anyone else here come across any substantial evidence that Alice was insane, or had kidnapped the baby?
 
Mar 26, 2012
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I know family relatives took legal action against Don Lynch or CBS for deforming Alice Cleaver's name. I can't remember which website I saw it on, but I'll look into it.
 

Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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The descendants of Alive Cleaver were upset about the mention that she had been labelled as a murdered in "Titanic: An Illustrated History" and I think Don Lynch got two Alice Cleavers mixed up. The descendants wrote a book in Alice's defence: From Workhouse to prison to Titanic
 

Paul Lee

Member
Aug 11, 2003
2,236
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What about Mildred Brown? I think she wrote a letter? I'm not sure.

Personally, despite our disagreements, I'm just really glad the Allison family were portrayed. Their story is rarely told in most adaptions and documentaries. There's only three books that have a chapter dedicated to them, if not just a short paragraph - or usually nothing. I'm glad that they'll be portrayed in this mini-series, because a new generation should know their story. I'm glad Alice wasn't depicted as a child murderess this time. I've seen a sneak peak of episode four and their death will be quite graphic for television.

Indeed, as long as what is depicted on screen is accurate and truthful. But, as Poirot said in "Death on the Nile", "You cannot libel the dead."
 

Jake Peterson

Member
Mar 11, 2012
329
2
73
Iowa, USA
The descendants of Alive Cleaver were upset about the mention that she had been labelled as a murdered in "Titanic: An Illustrated History" and I think Don Lynch got two Alice Cleavers mixed up. The descendants wrote a book in Alice's defence: Amazon.com: From Workhouse to Prison to .......... the Titanic?

I saw that on Amazon. It came out in 2000. I think the Allisons were unwilling to board without little Trevor, and by the time they decided to do so, all the boats were gone
 
Mar 26, 2012
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I saw that on Amazon. It came out in 2000. I think the Allisons were unwilling to board without little Trevor, and by the time they decided to do so, all the boats were gone

I have a theory that Hudson put Bessie and Lorraine in Collapsible A, but were thrown into the ocean as the wave poured onto the deck during the final plunge. Could it be that Bessie and Lorraine were sucked down into the belly of the ship when the forward funnel broke loose? It is possible that there was a whirlpool from the forward funnel's collapse. I can't imagine how horrible that would've been if they were sucked down into the belly of the ship...
 

Adam Went

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Apr 28, 2003
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Agree with some of the above thoughts, in all likelihood it was a case of a family not wanting to be seperated and believing in the safety of the massive ship over a relatively tiny lifeboat in the middle of the ocean. By the time the gravity of the situation had hit home, the boats were all but gone and Alice and Trevor had been seperated in the confusion. Despite what has been said many times in the past, I don't see anything which can be massively criticised in Alice's actions from that night. After all, if it wasn't for her, the whole family might have gone down.

As an aside, does anyone know what became of Alice in later years? I seem to recall reading that the latter part of her life is a bit of a mystery.
 

thedebrina

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Apr 21, 2012
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Palm Beach, Florida
I am the granddaughter of Helen Lorraine Kramer who was told that she was actually Helen Lorraine Allison and who was listed as a victim of the Titanic disaster. She was the Daughter of Hudson J. & Bess Allison, first class passengers and who are known to have both perished with the sinking. This is a mystery that has had much speculation and is a story that I grew up with from my earliest memory.

Bottom line...all anyone need do is see a photo of Hudson Allison and my grandmother and if there was ever a father and daughter it is they. I have recently discovered a suitcase my Grandmother has had stored away for over 70 years. It is full of the photos, articles,atty reports and crucial letters from the family and others in support of her claim. Her daughter Adele, (82) my mother is still with me to interview and am seeking to tell and share this tale in it's truth and it's entirety once and for all.

NOTE: I am in contact with surviving members of the Allison family in support and who are willing to provide DNA evidence which should be forthcoming. We seek to on this 100th year since the disaster, be able to prove her claim and ultimately return her ashes to the family grave site in Canada that we can lay her to rest and wish them all Peace after what has been a 100 year separation.
Please anyone interested in assisting me, or learning more...feel free to contact me.
 

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