And For My Second Post The Ship That Never Sank

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Damon Marcus

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Hey everyone again

Damn i love this site, anyways i have many, many books my favorite being "the discovery of the titanic" by Dr Ballard. So as and when i see interesting books concerning the titanic i normally snap them up, and this leads me to - "titanic, the ship that never sank" by R. Gardiner. As amusing as this book is i am curious to hear what the fellow users of this site have to say about a book like this?

Is it cashing in on the Titanic name or is it the shocking truth (yes i realise the latter is nothing more than a farce)

Anyways i get very annoyed when i find books and other such things simply making money off of the Titanic name.

Your thoughts please?

Damon!
 
Dec 2, 2000
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This particular tome is not well thought of if only because of the utter impossibility of such a scenerio. Curiously, Gardiner ends up admitting in this book that the switch never happened. If he had left it at that, I don't think anybody would have given it a second thought, however, he's been persisting with this theme as well as general muckraking at White Star's expence ever since.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people trying to turn a buck by writing on this subject, but I do take exception at those who do it at the expence of history as it really happened.
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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The world of books is a strange one. An eminent Australian businessman once lamented that if he advertised products he didn't have, or that didn't do the things that he claimed they did, he could be prosecuted. However, anybody can publish a book of twaddle dressed up as fact and get away with it, often getting rich in the process. Notorious examples include books by Velikovsky, Berlitz and Von Daniken.
 
Dec 8, 2000
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This thread has been moved from General Titanica to the Titanic Books forum. To pre-empt any confusion / concern / conspiracies (how apt!), from the Board's Rules & Netiquette:
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When starting a new discussion...

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=================================

Damon, for earlier discussion of this particular book, check out the 'Golden Turkey' thread in ths forum. There's several other threads that discuss it too, and I think you'll find most in agreement with you, Mike S and Dave.
quote:

Curiously, Gardiner ends up admitting in this book that the switch never happened.
Mike - what makes this worse is that the above admission is in the *first* book ('The Riddle of the Titanic'/'The Titanic Conspiracy', 1995). 'The Ship That Never Sank?' (1998) is the *second* conspiracy book in Gardiner's catalogue of WSL cover ups and catastrophes. Those of us who are gluttons for punishment (or completionist bibliophiles
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) are now up to book four...​
 
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I think Gardiner's books sell as well as they do (which apparently is very well indeed) for the same reasons that people gobble up rags like the National Enquirer. both are full of nonsense, and most people reading them know it, but they love it anyway.

Gardiner has the ultimate conspiracy theory angle. the Titanic never sank at all. there was collusion and corruption, and a dastardly plot to swindle the insurance companies. there was incredible incompetence and bungling by those responsible for pulling off the fake sinking, finally there was a huge coverup involving (apparently) just about everyone in 1912.

like that book published, I believe, in France which claims that the World Trade Center attack was an American conspiracy. pure nonsense, yet the book sold a gazillion copies. people, despite their better judgement, just can't keep away from gossip and conspiracy stories.

it is one of those quirks of humanity that I find very bizarre. and very unsettling.

all the best, Michael (TheManInBlack)
 

liam forber

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Mar 8, 2006
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Does any one believe that the titanic and the Olympic was swapped i recently read a book 'the riddle of titanic' and its quite convincing about the supposed swap didn’t they say you cant Actually see the name all u can see is the C witch can be seen on either ship the other think what could prove the theory is the propellers which are 30 meters deep in mud any one got any ideas

[Moderator's Note: 1. This message, originally posted as a separate thread in a different topic, has been moved to this pre-existing thread. 2. Please do not start multiple threads on the same subject. Thanks. MAB]
 

liam forber

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Mar 8, 2006
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it a great book about the surposed swap of Olympic and titanic its very convining

[Moderator's note: This post was in a separate thread outside of this subtopic, but has been moved to the pre-existing one, which is discussing the same subject. JDT]
 

Jason D. Tiller

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quote:

it a great book about the surposed swap of Olympic and titanic its very convining
No, it's not. In fact, it's one of the worst books out there on Titanic; it's full of utter rubbish.

You are the only one that is convinced here. As for the rest of us, we know for certain it didn't or couldn't have happened, simply because it would have been impossible to pull off. You'd have to keep the whole shipyard quiet about the switch and that's something that just wasn't going to happen anyway you slice it.

Plus, it would have cost a ton of money to carry out such a scam and the White Star Line wasn't about to waste their assets or time. Also, there is evidence to prove that Titanic is on the bottom of the Atlantic. "401" was Titanic's hull number which was discovered to be on one of her propellers several years ago and some of the lettering was discovered on her bow beginning with "T", indicates it's definitely her and not her older sister.

There's been a lot of discussion about this. I suggest you read through the various threads on here, which will allow you to separate fact from fiction. Also, I recommend purchasing "Olympic & Titanic: The Truth Behind the Conspiracy" by Steve Hall and Bruce Beveridge. That's a much better book.

Here are a few threads to get you started:

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5671/577.html?962493720

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5671/86342.html?1084766157

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5664/95683.html?1113919551
 

liam forber

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yes but the oylmpic sustained damage and the white star line never got paid to fix it so they were out of pocket they had to get money some how
 
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For a great book, read "Olympic and Titanic - The Truth Behind the Conspiracy" by Hall & Beveridge. This book proves how much hogwash Gardiner's theory is.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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Dec 3, 2000
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quote:

yes but the oylmpic sustained damage and the white star line never got paid to fix it so they were out of pocket they had to get money some how
Sure, Olympic suffered damage from the collision, but that doesn't in any way mean White Star was going to cook up the switch theory. As I've already stated, it would have been virtually impossible to keep 16,000 shipyard workers quiet. Word would have gotten out somehow and possibly found it's way to the media. Plus, we would have known about it long before now. White Star paid Harland & Wolff to repair Olympic, not the other way around.

Have you bothered to read the threads that I provided links for? If not, I suggest you do as you will be able to understand why it didn't and more importantly, could not happen.

Once again, it is total and absolute rubbish.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>yes but the oylmpic sustained damage and the white star line never got paid to fix it so they were out of pocket they had to get money some how<<

So...spending literally hundreds of thousands of pounds to make two ships look like another only to sink one in an effort to collect on an insurance policy which was 1/3rd underwritten by White Star's own in house insurance fund would raise the money?

Yeah...riiiiiiiiiiiight....suuuuurrrre it would.

Liam, White Star just wasn't that stupid. The crime of barretry is easy enough to arrange in port, with a single man, a can of petrol, and a book of matches. Much more discreet that way, easy enough to do on the cheap, and without involving up to 14,000 shipfitters who would absolutely know what's going on and who, I guarantee you, would not keep the secret.

Robin Gardiner's work is sensationalist claptrap. A piece of fiction masquerading as fact. There's nothing to it and there never was. He knows it too. White Star had no problem paying for the repairs. It hurt a little, but it was far from fatal and the damage was not that bad.
 
Sep 22, 2003
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If you'd like to see a convincing Argument for the switch theory read the first 7 chapters of this book:

Hall, Steve & Bruce Beveridge. Titanic and Olympic, The Truth Behind the Conspiracy

in the first 7 chapters they make a more convincing argument than Gardiner could ever make, the bad news for Gardiner and his fellow Pro Switch Buddies the 8th chapter Sinks the Switch Myth, and there are other good reasons to buy this book: an Appendix w/ plenty of details on the differences between Olympic and Titanic, an Olympic History, and Britannic History.

as for the rest I think Michael S. Hit a Homer w/ this one:

~Robin Gardiner's work is sensationalist claptrap. A piece of fiction masquerading as fact. There's nothing to it and there never was. He knows it too. White Star had no problem paying for the repairs. It hurt a little, but it was far from fatal and the damage was not that bad.~
 

Matthew Lips

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Mar 8, 2001
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Anyone who reads the Hall and Beveridge book and still thinks the Titanic and Olympic were swapped probably also believes that the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese. As I have said before, they do such a thorough job of debunking Gardiner's nonsense that there is no more left to be said, except...

Titanic-sank.
Olympic-scrapped.