ANTR officers vs Titanic 97 officers


Aly Jones

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Came across a scene in ANTR where an officer was putting women in the lifeboats, and it struck me on how he spoke and his mannerism remind me of Edwardian men. Something I see lack with Titanic 97 movie. Officers in 97 movie didn't have that same feeling, even though they were trying to portray Edwardian officers. I guess men in 1950's still had Edwardian values /mannerism where as, by 1997, men had changed a lot since 1912. You can see the difference in both movies being 40 years apart.
 

Arun Vajpey

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Perhaps, but I found Kenneth More's Lightoller one of the most artificial characterizations in film history. I confess that don't like More or Lightoller at the best of times, but watching them "together" in ANTR was enough to make me punch the TV screen. He was at his annoying best, trying to be everywhere at the same time. I would have been too surprised if he had dived overboard and tried to hold-up the submerging bow of the Titanic.

In reality, Lightoller spent too much time IMO faffing around Lifeboat #4.
 

Aly Jones

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At 1:29.00 mark. How the officer treats the lady passenger .Thats how the real officers would've behaved towards lady passengers. I didn't get that from titanic 97 movie. They were way too modern.

I agree with with you about kenith Moore. Didn't like him. They screwed up in picking him for the role. God almighty, he look so foney the way he acted. Apart from the scene I'd mentioned, it feels he was was the only officer on board and he was going to be the only hero that night. In fact, he didn't seem Edwardian to me unlike the other officer. Keith Moore ruin the film, without him, antr would be the perfect movie.

Oh, btw, your quote " I'm shocked he didn't jump into the water to hold up the bow" LMAO.
 

Julian Atkins

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Hi Aly,

Many thanks for the above link - I had no idea ANTR had been 'colourised', and to such a high standard IMHO that really improves the film.

Cheers,

Julian
 
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Tim Gerard

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I agree with you Aly and Arun about Kenneth Moore's Lightoller, it seemed very artificial. Jonny Phillips in the 1997 movie at least seemed more like a real person. Moore's seemed to be almost a superhero, 97's at least struggled with things like crowd control which put a more human aspect to the character. Honestly, there's something about the Lightoller of the 1996 mini-series that I liked, and in my mind I've always pictured the real Lightoller to have been somewhere in between the portrayals of the 1996 mini-series and the 1997 movie.

I also agree with you Arun about not really liking the real Lightoller, at least in context of the real Titanic (I very much respect his helping with the Dunkirk evacuation). I've always thought of him as a bit of a hypocrite. How many men died in the sinking because Lightoller interpreted the order as women and children ONLY, and then he himself survived? Murdoch at least allowed men into boats after there were no more women nearby.
 
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Julian Atkins

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As to inaccuracies in ANTR (the film)


Trivia/thread drift alert... I've always been a fan of Kenneth More. He had some rubbish scripts to deal with in his films, and ANTR is perhaps the best example. He often didn't have the best 'vehicle' to display his talents as an actor; but I would suggest the film 'Genevieve' and his portrayal of Ambrose Claverhouse to be my favourite; John Gregson seems to be miscast conversely in the lead role; the first choice was Dirk Bogarde until it was noted Bogarde couldn't drive a car!

Cheers,

Julian
 
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Arun Vajpey

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As Douglas Bader, yes. IMO his only really good role.

Julian, you mentioned John Gregson; not a big fan of his, but he was at least tolerable in Genevieve as opposed to the nauseatingly artificial Kenneth More. IMO, he is a poor, overrated actor who plays himself all the time. Above all, I can't stand his awful voice.

Another annoying overrated role in The Admirable Crichton . Overrated film too, a rehash of an old theme from several cultures.
 

Julian Atkins

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I agree that Kenneth More made very few really good films. I would add as my secondary favourites to 'Genevieve', 'Sink the Bismark', and 'North West Frontier' (upon which you might like to comment further). He was quite good in the 'Battle of Britain' too.

We will obviously have to beg to differ over Kenneth More's portrayal of Ambrose Claverhouse in 'Genevieve'!

I did think that the 'colourised' recent version of ANTR was more 'vivid' and very well done, and for some peculiar reason seemed to make the treatment of 'The Californian Incident' more noticeable. I recall seeing ANTR on the TV years ago in Black and White that 'The Californian Incident' made no impression on me at the time at all, and could have been deleted for all it was worth to me at the time same as Cameron did later on as a sub plot.

I can imagine (conjecture warning) Captain Lord in his late 70s going to his local shop after his wife died, or walking his dogs, and being approached and told they saw in 'the flicks' commenting on the film ANTR and having to revisit stuff of 46 years ago. I can imagine his own son having been to see the film at the time, then asking his elderly Dad about it all.

On 3rd July 1958 when ANTR was released, Captain Lord was still alive and would live for another 3 1/2 years till 24th January 1962. Groves, Stone and Gibson were also still alive as was Evans.

Cheers,

Julian
 

Arun Vajpey

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'North West Frontier' (upon which you might like to comment further). He was quite good in the 'Battle of Britain' too.

We will obviously have to beg to differ over Kenneth More's portrayal of Ambrose Claverhouse in 'Genevieve'!

(We are way off topic here and I suspect it will not be long before Uncle Mark tells us off ;) ! But till then......)

I have not seen North West Frontier. Will do someday.

IMO Genevieve was OK, helped by Kay Kendall (I loved her slightly tipsy turn with the trumpet) but Kenneth More was awful. Artificially raucous dialogue, forced laughter, jerky mannerisms etc

Almost all actors, including More were good in the 1969 film Battle of Britain. I think that film is very underrated and the modest reviews were unfair. One complaint at the time in many reviews was that while it was full of stars - Harry Andrews, Michael Caine, Christopher Plummer, Laurence Olivier, Trevor Howard etc - there was no central character. I believe that Kennaway (writer) and Hamilton (Director) deliberately made it that way. The actual BoB was NOT about any individual heroism but about collective efforts of a group of brave airmen - the Gallant Few. It was important to convey that message and it was done very well IMO. The British "bulldog spirit" of facing up to the might of the Luftwaffe with fewer planes and (more importantly) shortage of skilled pilots AND winning was what the film was all about. It was not a story with clear cut beginning, middle or an end and should be taken for what it was.
 

Aly Jones

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Don't think he will do anything because no one is fighting. I guess men are not that intrigued with Edwardian officers like women are. And this war talk is boring.haha. yawn.
 

Oliver K

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The older gentlemen of the 1950's grew up through the edwardian era, its not doubt they kept it right until the very end, after all it was all the punk stuff in the 50's-60's that killed the entire thing anyway.
 

Julian Atkins

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As to Aly's point about about 'Edwardian gentlemen' when I was a choir boy between the ages of approx 8 to 16, courtesy to a female from a male of the senior generations was 'de rigueur', and I recall people who served in WW1 whom I met with 3 times a week when a kiddie and in my early teens.

At tea time with my great grand parents, children were to be seen and not heard, and tea was eaten in silence, which is a pity as nowadays mealtimes can be a great time to talk and reminisce.

One side of my family was quite 'buttoned up' and stiff on my Mum's paternal side (to which the above relates), but I recall vividly family meals with my Dad's parents when all sorts of stories and anecdotes would be mentioned and with much hilarity.

When I was a kid, my grandparents (male) and great grandparents (male) wore head gear (my Grandpa always wore a cap, and my Grandad always wore a trilby). The removal of hats when encountering a female - in a shop, or in the street etc was common place. Ladies first, open doors for them etc. Do the dining room chairs for them when they sit down at a dining table. Always serve the females first at a table when sat down for a meal. Always put the loo seat down after...

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but courtesy and good manners cost nothing.

(I'm lucky to remember 6 of my 8 grand parents, all of whom were Victorians to start with rather than being Edwardians, strictly)

Cheers,

Julian
 
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Nov 14, 2005
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Don't think he will do anything because no one is fighting. I guess men are not that intrigued with Edwardian officers like women are. And this war talk is boring.haha. yawn.
What does this even mean? Are you talking about the Battle of Britain? As for Kenneth More..not seen a lot of his movies. But I recently saw him in a small role in "The Longest Day". Thought he did a good job in that.
 

Sam Brannigan

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I really like More's Lightoller.

He conveyed a sense of leadership, slight arrogance and was a reflection of the perceived safety of the ship.

His retreat in to being unsure about everything and his almost embarrassed chat with Captain Rostron at the end was a stark contrast to his jauntiness at the start.
 

Arun Vajpey

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I really like More's Lightoller.

He conveyed a sense of leadership, slight arrogance and was a reflection of the perceived safety of the ship.

It is a matter of opinion, I guess.

From what evidence and statements can be gathered, real Lightoller did anything but convey a sense of leadership that night. More's character on the other hand, seemed to be everywhere and certainly was not convincing.

One annoying mannerism of Kenneth More that is seen in a lot of his films is his habit of artificially jerking his hands/wrists and jaw seemingly to indicate "I am ready to go". In ANTR you can see that soon after the collision when they meet on the bridge to wait for the Captain's decision.
 

Aly Jones

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What does this even mean? Are you talking about the Battle of Britain? As for Kenneth More..not seen a lot of his movies. But I recently saw him in a small role in "The Longest Day". Thought he did a good job in that.
Oops, thought Arun wrote this.
Mark won't do anything because we went off topic - no one is fighting or Pickering , so he won't do anything
Yes battle of Britain talk is boring. Yawn.
 

Aly Jones

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Hi Julian.,

My grandmother was the only grand parent I knew and she was born 1924, So after the Edwardian days. I never meet anyone from the Edwardian days, but wished I could meet Edwardian gentlemen as when they were young.
 
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Perhaps, but I found Kenneth More's Lightoller one of the most artificial characterizations in film history. I confess that don't like More or Lightoller at the best of times, but watching them "together" in ANTR was enough to make me punch the TV screen. He was at his annoying best, trying to be everywhere at the same time. I would have been too surprised if he had dived overboard and tried to hold-up the submerging bow of the Titanic.

In reality, Lightoller spent too much time IMO faffing around Lifeboat #4.
I had the same negative opinion of Tucker Maguire as Margaret Brown in ANTR.
 

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