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Ryan Thompson

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Dec 6, 2005
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According to Wikipedia its in the process of being scrapped -- the tip of its bow has been removed, which apparently is the usually first step. (???)

Its also interesting and sad that the towing debacle put the ship in the news.
 
Apr 27, 2005
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Wikipedia is a notoriously poor reference. There is plenty of misinformation presented as fact. It may well be that "Independence" is there, but I need a photo.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Wikipedia is a notoriously poor reference.<<

No kidding! The problem with Wikipedia is that it can be edited by any Tom, Dick, and Harriet whether they have any genuine qualifications to discuss the subject or not. It can be useful for some signposts and references, but one is always wise to double check what's there with other sources of known reliability.

I wouldn't be shocked if they got it right in this instance. I think it's fairly well understood that this is going to be the end result, but I'd like to see some corroberation.
 

James Smith

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Dec 5, 2001
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A month now since Independence's supposed arrival in Alang, and still nary a word from the folks at Maritime Matters. What gives?

--Jim
 
Dec 2, 2000
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They may have anchored the ship in some out of the way backwater in the hope that the whole affair will simply be forgotten. Personally, I don't think the ship is anywhere within eyeball range of Alang. The Maritime Matters people keep a close watch on the place. If she had been anchored there or run up onto the beach, they would have said something.
 

Grant Carman

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Jun 19, 2006
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Michael

Are they keeping watch on Bangladesh as well, because it seems to be the spot where ships that Alang doesn't want seem to end up.

Or she could have quietly gone to China for breaking
 

Ryan Thompson

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Dec 6, 2005
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If anyone is interested, i have a picture of my grandma on the Independence in the summer of 57.
Sure, would be fun to see. It could be added to the archive here on the site, too.

They may have anchored the ship in some out of the way backwater in the hope that the whole affair will simply be forgotten.
Have investors ever bought ships from Alang that were going to be scrapped and then restored them?

The Dubai story sounds odd. It would be really good news, though, wouldn't it? :D
 
Dec 2, 2000
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From the Maritime matters ShipNews weblog:

quote:

June 8: Intense speculation regarding the whereabouts of a veteran US-built liner INDEPENDENCE swirls in shipping communities. The vessel, now called OCEANIC was towed from her berth at BAE Shipyard in San Francisco's China Basin on February 28 this year.
For the rest, see the June 8 2008 entry at http://www.maritimematters.com/shipnews.html
 

Grant Carman

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Jun 19, 2006
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Michael

We've seen the same song and dance before, most notably with the France/Norway. While the owner says she will not go to Alang, to me that means she will either be scrapped in Bangladesh or Turkey, or she will be sold to a numbered company, who will then sell her for scrap. With Dubai getting the QE2, I don't see them wanting a second old liner, unless they're going to offer cruises, (they might do that with the QE2, under a different name). If she is "sold" to Singapore, then it will be to sell her forward for razor blades.

Or maybe I'm just too jaundiced.
happy.gif
 

James Smith

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Dec 5, 2001
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Possibly so.

What seems odd, to me, is the amount of deliberate misinformation that has gone out, apparently in an attempt to get the ship-loving community up in arms. First the faked YouTube image of the Norway at Alang, and now this false story about the Independence already being there. Perversely, some people seem to salivate at the news of another beloved ship being scrapped as long as it gives them more ammunition against NCL.

The misinformation may have worked too well. Why should NCL make a serious attempt to save the Independence or the United States, if doing so will only subject them to another round of rumors, innuendo, and photoshopped images of those ships on some miserable beach in the third world?

--Jim
 
Apr 27, 2005
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Side note- I just found a tidbit (defined as a "bit of tid"), that Grace Kelly sailed to her marriage in Monaco, to Prince Rainer, aboard the "Constitution".
I just thought I'd toss that into the pot. Grace Kelly is gone, and the "Constitution" lays somewhere in the depths of the Pacific Ocean. Sic transit gloria.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Why should NCL make a serious attempt to save the Independence or the United States, if doing so will only subject them to another round of rumors, innuendo, and photoshopped images of those ships on some miserable beach in the third world?<<

I'm not certain that this is much of a concern since the Usual Suspect who just love to hate NCl will continue to find fault with them regardless. What they have to do is look at the bottom line on the ledger book. The bottom line on that ledger book would tend to indicate that niether ship is a good bet. If they were, they would be in service now or they would be refitting for service.

None of that is happening.

What does that tell you about what the numbers are saying?
 

Ryan Thompson

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Dec 6, 2005
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First the faked YouTube image of the Norway at Alang
LOL! I saw that. I don't think its up anymore. It was really, really poorly done, and even people completely unfamiliar with the liner were calling it out as a hoax in the comments field. I seem to recall the video was like 15 seconds of a still photo of the Norway with a very poor photoshopped job showing the first circa 80 feet of her bow missing. REALLY poorly done. I went the hell off on them, and of course, they didn't speak english. (Or at least, that's what they pretended.)

Where exactly did the Constitution sink? The wikipedia article doesn't give coordinates. It was somewhere northwest of Hawaii, right?

Question: Would the Norway/France have made more financial sense as a floating hotel than the Independence/United States?
 
Apr 27, 2005
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Question: Would the Norway/France have made more financial sense as a floating hotel than the Independence/United States?

Possibly, but rewiring, removing hazardous material, etc., would have been a nightmare. Keeping a static ship is a financial nightmare, unless you are Dubai. I always promoted the idea of docking the "France" and "United States" side by side in New York, using the "France" as a hotel and the gutted "United States" as a convention center. They would be classic architecture on the waterfront for which they were built, and two financial nightmares instead of one! T'was not to be.
Probably refurbishing the "United States" would be the smarter move, as the interiors could be laid out to the specs of a modern hotel, rather than dealing with somebody else's designs.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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There's a lot to be said for starting from a clean slate and anybody trying the refurbish the SSUS would certianly be doing that. Plumbing, insulation and wiring could be put in which would meet modern health and safety standards, regulations, and codes.

The problem is that at least part of the ship's appeal would lie in that trip to Yesteryear and that would call for at least some cabins to be done in their original configuration. One has to wonder if any of the plans for same have even survived to this day.

Richard is not kidding about such an enterprise being a financial nightmare. Even the best run museums and attractions are having problems. Witness that story on the USS Intrepid which I posted in the Museums thread. The Interpid museum is one of the best run and managed in the country and right now, they're in enough trouble financially that some of it's officers are wondering if it's ever going to re-open.

Don't even get started on the dog's breakfast that the city of Long Beach made of the Queen Mary.
 

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