Archive through December 20 2008

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Side note- I just found a tidbit (defined as a "bit of tid"), that Grace Kelly sailed to her marriage in Monaco, to Prince Rainer, aboard the "Constitution".
I just thought I'd toss that into the pot. Grace Kelly is gone, and the "Constitution" lays somewhere in the depths of the Pacific Ocean. Sic transit gloria.
>>Why should NCL make a serious attempt to save the Independence or the United States, if doing so will only subject them to another round of rumors, innuendo, and photoshopped images of those ships on some miserable beach in the third world?<<

I'm not certain that this is much of a concern since the Usual Suspect who just love to hate NCl will continue to find fault with them regardless. What they have to do is look at the bottom line on the ledger book. The bottom line on that ledger book would tend to indicate that niether ship is a good bet. If they were, they would be in service now or they would be refitting for service.

None of that is happening.

What does that tell you about what the numbers are saying?
First the faked YouTube image of the Norway at Alang
LOL! I saw that. I don't think its up anymore. It was really, really poorly done, and even people completely unfamiliar with the liner were calling it out as a hoax in the comments field. I seem to recall the video was like 15 seconds of a still photo of the Norway with a very poor photoshopped job showing the first circa 80 feet of her bow missing. REALLY poorly done. I went the hell off on them, and of course, they didn't speak english. (Or at least, that's what they pretended.)

Where exactly did the Constitution sink? The wikipedia article doesn't give coordinates. It was somewhere northwest of Hawaii, right?

Question: Would the Norway/France have made more financial sense as a floating hotel than the Independence/United States?
Question: Would the Norway/France have made more financial sense as a floating hotel than the Independence/United States?

Possibly, but rewiring, removing hazardous material, etc., would have been a nightmare. Keeping a static ship is a financial nightmare, unless you are Dubai. I always promoted the idea of docking the "France" and "United States" side by side in New York, using the "France" as a hotel and the gutted "United States" as a convention center. They would be classic architecture on the waterfront for which they were built, and two financial nightmares instead of one! T'was not to be.
Probably refurbishing the "United States" would be the smarter move, as the interiors could be laid out to the specs of a modern hotel, rather than dealing with somebody else's designs.
There's a lot to be said for starting from a clean slate and anybody trying the refurbish the SSUS would certianly be doing that. Plumbing, insulation and wiring could be put in which would meet modern health and safety standards, regulations, and codes.

The problem is that at least part of the ship's appeal would lie in that trip to Yesteryear and that would call for at least some cabins to be done in their original configuration. One has to wonder if any of the plans for same have even survived to this day.

Richard is not kidding about such an enterprise being a financial nightmare. Even the best run museums and attractions are having problems. Witness that story on the USS Intrepid which I posted in the Museums thread. The Interpid museum is one of the best run and managed in the country and right now, they're in enough trouble financially that some of it's officers are wondering if it's ever going to re-open.

Don't even get started on the dog's breakfast that the city of Long Beach made of the Queen Mary.

But how do you really feel about the Queen Mary


One thing we all have in common on this board is that we have a love of old liners, as well as other kinds of ships. Most, if not all of us, can fully understand the economics of it, but we all still dream of what could have, or in some cases, should have been.

The cold hard reality is that ships have a finite existance. Most of the time the end of a ship's existance is based on economics. in the 1970's and 1980's, dozens of classic liners went to Taiwan and China because they were no longer viable. Had the QM still been sailing for Cunard, she probably would have met the same fate.

Companies very rarely have the same sentimentality that people do. I remember reading somewhere, that when the Mauretania was withdrawn from service, there was a very large campaign to save her, as she was that well loved. But being the oldest of the surviving Edwardian Cunarders, she went to Rosyth, (I was there last month), along with the Olympic, Homeric, and many others. The Aquitania and Majestic survived only as long as they were viable.

To many people, the Mauretania was almost a symbol of national pride. If she couldn't be saved, why would a ship, built as the France, rebuilt as a cruise ship, renamed Norway, have survived. She had no national identity, and while popular, did not build up the fans that the ships of old did.

I remember my grandmother and grandfather delaying a vacation to Canada when I was a kid, as their favorite Cunard liner, (I think it was the Saxonia) wasn't available. That kind of dedication doesn't happen anymore.

Perhaps the best loved ship in the UK is the Royal Yacht Brittania. I was there last month, and toured her, and while beautiful, and she has had a fantastic area built up around her, even she fights tooth and nail be be preserved. And she's only been open for tours for 4 years.

Sentimentality is great, and allows us, in our minds eye, to visit the great ships of old. And then we have to come back to the real world.
>>But how do you really feel about the Queen Mary <<

It's not the Queen Mary I have any issues with. It's the long never ending comedy of errors made in the management over the years leading to her present state I have issues with. The venture could have worked and if it's leased out to an outfit which has it's act together, it still can.

That doesn't mean there won't be problems, but it can work.
Yes, sorry. I had a picture of my grandma and friends in the dining room in 1957, before that major cruise ship refit. I posted it, but then got rid of it. I thought i better ask her before i start posting pictures with her in it. Haha. Does anyone actually want to see it?
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