Archive through May 13 2001


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Emily Bisignano

Guest
I admit that I wouldn't mind spending the night outside of a building where there would be a Titanic convention or an exhibit, I've seen the movie God knows how many times, I've watched the same and some different TV documentaries over and over, and I search the library and web literally for hours hunting for any new information that I might find. I have this huge, blue Titanic folder where on the front is a picture saying "On Board the Titanic." That folder is at least 5 1/2 inches thick. I have on the left pocket pictures of the ship (that take up nearly all the room in my folder) and on the right side, I have 151 front and back pages of little facts hand-written by me on notebook paper. I've noticed 2 places where I labeled 2 pages twice (on page 66 and 104.) Some people think I'm obsessed, but I bet there are much worse Titanic freaks than me
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Apr 22, 2012
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Hello Emily,

Man, I thought I was the only one who had one of those notebooks! I've just started mine; I figured it would be a wonderful way to catalouge my information, so I wouldn't forget. It would also come in handy for this message board, when you've got an answer right on the tip of your tounge and can't spit it out.

For me, I'm obsessed with the "people story" of the Titanic. To think that all those people had an individual career and life, and that many of those were taken that night empowers me. I often wonder if there wasn't someone on board just like me, who perhaps lost their life that morning. I love the people side of the story.

I've also saw the movie more times than I know or care to remember, and if that director's cut ever comes out, I'll likely see it twice as much.

I am obsessed with these grand ships to the point that I plan on becoming an author and Titanic historian when I grow up. I'm dead serious! I hope to one day replace ol' Don Lynch at THS!

-B.W.
 
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jean leysman

Guest
I remember that when I was a child Titanic fascinated me beyond compare already. There would be a Titanic movie on TV now and then, and I would aim to see it, no matter what!
I still wonder what caused the fascination, I can think of so many reasons but there just is no satisfactory answer. Ofcourse the Titanic-story is captivating but so many ships have sunk througout history and tragic stories can be told about everyone of them. Then why... Why Titanic?
I dont't know and doubt if I ever will.
I just keep letting Titanic obsess me and I don't mind.

Jean
 

Kyrila Scully

Member
Apr 15, 2001
2,079
6
168
South Florida
Jean, I was once questioned by a friend, "Why are you so interested in a dead ship?" I don't think I can answer that question to this day, although some have suggested maybe I had a past life as a Titanic passenger. I don't believe in reincarnation, but perhaps my guardian angel had charge over a passenger and I can sense my angel's empathy towards this person. This makes more sense to me than past lives. But to each his own.
 
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Addison Hart

Guest
I humbly agree with Mr. Whited. The thing that has really interested me about the history is the individual players involved. Wide ranges from geniuses to eccentrics, from the rich fellows like J.J. Astor to the guys who ran about down below have naked feeding boilers for wages. And the reason that these people interest me is not due to what many wacky fellas will say: reincarnation. I don't believe in reincarnation, as you can tell. The other thing that has always really interested me was the size and beauty of the ship. The imagination runs wild, not the past memories! As for 'Titanic Freak' I don't think I am one, although I have about every film made on it besides the last two, the CBS Film and the Cameron film, which, despite the technology, I found horrendous. I do also own alot of books (and my favorite game besides Alpha Centauri is 'Titanic: Adventure ou of Time). And I do keep a notebook of all those facts, just like Brandon and Emily. Only, I'm not 'just like Mr. Conklin'.' Ho ho.

Addison
 
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Addison Hart

Guest
Mr. Holme,

For one who hasn't seen the movie since the year it came out, I can still remember many things I hated about that film. First, the smaller things, the attempt to make the male First Class Passengers and the Crewmen of the ship cowards, especially the First Class men and the Stewards for 3rd Class. Then we have Murdoch blow his brains out. There is no hardcore evidence that this happened at all. I know Cameron stuck it in for dramatics, but he could have used a fictional character for that. He took Mr. Murdoch's name and slandered it in the film. Murdoch was a devout Christian, and he would have looked upon suicide as the ultimate sin, the sin that can't be forgiven.

Also, the whole Jack/Rose thing turned my stomach. There was absolutely no need for those explicit scenes. We didn't need 'the big 'Un' in that scene where she's painted...in fact there was no need for that whole scene! The part in poor ol' Art Ryerson's Renault is pretty bad as well. I could think of about a dozen other things that ensured I'd never watch the film again as well, but I must be going.

Addison Hart
 

Joshua Gulch

Member
Mar 31, 2001
604
2
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Addison,
While I don't hate the movie as much as you, you brought up several things that ruined the film. The whole Jack & Rose love ordeal had parts that were simply uncalled for. It's a good thing Bill Carter's (not Ryerson's) car was lost. If not, imagine how he'd react upon arrival in New York!

Here's a site that illustrates this: Mr. T vs. Titanic. Enjoy!

Josh.
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
714
2
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Hi Addison,

You wrote:

"There is no hardcore evidence that this (Murdoch's suicide) happened at all."

There is no "hardcore" evidence to suggest he didn't either. Do not take this as any reflection on my personal opinion .I am a Christian myself, but with the amount of pressure and guilt on Murdoch's shoulders and with two boats left on a fast sinking ship, there is no telling how people will react in such a precarious situation. While I wholeheartedly agree that Cameron's general portrayal of the crew was innacurate and Murdoch would almost ceratainly not have accepted Cal's bribe,Cameron should not be criticised for forming his own opinion on something that has not been established as fact, and probably never will.

The same applies to 3rd class stewards. Personally, I don't think they were as zealous as Cameron would have us believe in their efforts to keep the steerage below decks, but that's not to say it didn't happen. We don't know for sure.

re; 1st class passengers. "Cal" was the chief villain of the film. I don't belive his character was designed to epitomise everything bad about wealthy, upper class Edwardian society. It simply makes better drama. I don't recall any scenes in the film where 1st class men showed cowardice which conflicts with survivor accounts.

Regarding J & R - To be blunt, it was a film, not a documentary production. It was not produced to cater for the interests of historians alone. For those who simply wanted a romantic story with a tragic ending it made a good piece of drama. Above all, it was a love story and the scenes in Billy Carter's Renault, Suite B-52 etc were necessary for this.

I don't have time to go into the extent to which the good points greatly out-weigh the bad points. But, IMHO they do.

Regards,
Ben

P.S I very much enjoyed your chronologies. Thanks for keeping us all up-to-date.
 

Matthew Lips

Member
Mar 8, 2001
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Ben,
I agree one hundred percent. Cameron's movie was never intended to be a documentary about the Titanic, no more than "Saving Private Ryan" was intended to be a documentary about the Normandy landings for instance.

There is nothing at all new about setting a fictional story against the background of real events. Hell, a thousand war movies come to mind just for starters. Just why Cameron has been so regularly singled out for abuse is something I don't understand.

You are absolutely right that Cal was not intended to represent rich 1st class male passengers as a group. Cal was a cad, no doubt, but he is in the story for dramatic effect. Let's not read anything more into it.

Perhaps Murdoch's suicide was one issue that could have been left out, but on the whole the way Cameron mingles his fictional characters (Rose, Jack, Cal, Lovejoy, etc.) with real persons (Andrews, Ismay, Molly Brown, etc.) is skillful. It makes for a good work of fiction, which is all it was even intended to be.

Cheers,
Matthew L.
 

Mary Hamric

Member
Apr 10, 2001
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Cameron has said that his goal in making this film was to get the audience to feel for the 1500 who died that night. That they had lives, hopes and dreams. Jack was symbolic of the 3rd class passenger who never got to see those hopes and dreams realized. Cameron used these fictional characters to draw us into the story, to see what these people's lives were like. It's historical drama and Matthew...you are 100% correct. Cameron didn't do anything different than what has been done in cinema and novels over and over and over again. He has set fictional characters in a historical setting and spun a tale. He did an admirable job of getting the details right (even having Ken Marschall and Don Lynch check his facts). It isn't a documentary. And even many actual documentaries I have seen have some minor conflicting details in them.

As far as film/historical fiction goes, I think that Cameron paid Titanic and her passengers a great honor. I think it was a superb film in every respect.
 

Teri Lynn Milch

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2001
1,053
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Dear All,

In keeping with the thread of "How much of a Titanic freak are you?" I would like to say that I am obsessed with Titanic beyond belief! I started my own Titanic bookshelf that contains books, movies, folders, web print-outs, Celine's CD, collectibles, and of course, my writings of the life of J. Bruce Ismay. This bookshelf is my pride and joy, and my 6 year old son is not allowed to touch mommy's "Golden Eggnest." I spend every waking minute I can on my computer, don't care if another soul ever calls me, don't care if I tie up my phone line, don't care if I ever go to another party or family event, and worst of all: I have to work hard on forcing myself to be a good mummy to my beloved son. Now is that obsession to its fullest or what?

I keep saying to myself, "Once I finish this biography, I'll kick back and relax and won't be obsessed like I am now." But who am I kidding? That's right, myself! Gees, get a life here!

I have a blurb I use on my signature file that I love: "Before you realize it, you're living with her, before you realize it, you're married to her. And let me tell you something, there is no divorcing Titanic, EVER."

As far as Cameron's movie goes, I just want to say that the scene where the ship is listing and people are a madhouse, I started crying in the theatre so hard I could not breathe. Talk about too close to home! When the video came out I refused to watch part two of it, it was far too painful for me to watch. I don't know when I'll watch it again. Probably never. I do, however, appreciate the delicate care Cameron took with regards to Edwardian style dress, original tablewear, manner of speech, physical gestures, etc. etc. These I enjoyed very much and thought they were well presented.

Teri
http://www.bruceismay.com

P.S. I'll be glad when my child gets older to the point of having more independence and going to parking lots and skateboarding - - then mommy can spend MORE time on her computer! Bad mummy Bad mummy! Mummy can't help herself!
 

Steve Arnold

Member
Dec 31, 2000
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Teri, I truly hope there is a healthy measure of jest in your post. If you are serious about what you have just said, then I can say that my sympathies are squarely with your son. As a teacher of six, seven, and eight year olds, I will tell you that your son needs as much of your time as you can give him, and that if you are neglecting him for Titanic, then every day will be filled with opportunities lost for both of you. Look down the road -- perhaps he will come to despise the obsession with Mommy's Golden Eggnest and it will cause a rift between you later on. Or worse, neglect can cause ugly things to happen later on in life. I have seen the residues of bad parenting over twenty-six years of teaching and it isn't pretty. As I said, I hope that much of what you have said is in jest and that I don't really need to be saying this to you.

Forgive me jumping to my soapbox, but every child only gets one chance; he's not like a book that you can leave on the shelf until you can get to it next week.
 

Kyrila Scully

Member
Apr 15, 2001
2,079
6
168
South Florida
Teri, I have to agree with Steve. I hope you're kidding about your son being on his own unsupervised while you're online. I am a single mother with Titanic obsession, but I include my daughter (she's 16) and when I thought she might be resentful of my passion, I discovered she secretly thinks it's cool and even encourages me to spend $10 more on that extravagant e-bay bid. So please include your son, sit him on your lap and tell him what you're typing, read the responses, ask him what you think you should reply, and for heaven's sake, teach him how to appreciate those precious books. Encourage him to read them and look at the pictures, but treat the book carefully to take care of it. In this way you will be providing him not only with your time but also with a love for learning and reading. And he will grow up to share your passion and when you are old and ready for the home, he will pass on your collection to his own children instead of getting rid of it on e-bay! Good luck! Those young years are precious and irreplaceable.
 

Teri Lynn Milch

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2001
1,053
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Dear Steve & Kyrila,

I don't know to what extent your passions are for Titanic, but for some of us it can consume our very souls. I am working on removing myself from my passion at times I SHOULD, like on weekends when my son is not in school all day. I HATE to report this but it is the truth: even when I'm out at a social gathering, or the supermarket, at a family holiday, or whatever, Titanic still lurks in the back of my mind and I'm anxious to get back home to it. Gawd I have it bad. I can't help that, but what I CAN help are the suggestions that you gave me, Kyrila. I REALLY liked them, and will use them all. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I am glad now that I posted what I did. For a moment there last night I felt bad and a little embarrassed at what I wrote, even though it is all the truth. But now I feel better, thanks to you two.

I'd like you to know that anything I post here on ET is truth, I take my membership quite seriously and would never jest about anything unless I state so.

My passion for Titanic got worst only just 4 months ago. Before that Titanic did not engulf me. It looks like my passion is here to stay so I might as well fit it in to my life in the proper manner.

Please know that my son is a happy, healthy child and I spent a wonderful weekend last weekend with him. Took him to the beach all day on Saturday, took him swimming yesterday, played monopoly with him for a couple of hours and spent more time with him cleaning his room which he loves. It wasn't until 7:30 p.m. last night that I finally told him now it's Mommy's time to herself on her computer. A few people have told me that I do have that right to myself in the evening time. But I will definitely do the things you suggested Kyrila, starting tonight when we get home. I will report how it's going.

Thanks again guys.

Yours,

Teri
 

Kyrila Scully

Member
Apr 15, 2001
2,079
6
168
South Florida
Glad to be of help, Teri. I'm just as obsessed as you. But I try to keep a lid on it when my daughter is around. I have over 7 pages of Titanic inventory of memorabilia, including 50+ books, over 2 dozen videos (all different) and my house looks like a Titanic museum. I'd give anything to be a tour guide at the Orlando museum, and I do programs about Titanic in full costume at schools and churches. A friend of mine has a party/entertainment business and we're working on putting together Titanic themed parties. I've even taught Titanic history lessons at the Adult Ed center, and had Daniel Allen Butler (author of "Unsinkable") in my home for a lecture on Titanic for my invited guests. My birthday falls during the anniversary of Titanic's maiden voyage, and I fully believe my guardian angel must have had charge of someone aboard Titanic, and that I am obsessed because I can empathize with my angel's affections for that person. My daughter is convinced our house is haunted by a Titanic ghost because of all the memorabilia I have throughout the house. (It is said ghosts love to inhabit houses where memorabilia is in abundance, although I personally do not believe in ghosts or reincarnation and try to persuade my daughter likewise.) We call our "noisemaker" "Stanley Fox" a Titanic victim who shares my birthday. So yeah, I am obsessed, and not at all embarrassed. I've enjoyed every moment of it since I was a wee child of 4 or 5 in the late 1950's when my parents took me to see A Night To Remember at the drive in.
 

Tracy Smith

Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,646
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South Carolina USA
I've been interested in the Titanic since I was around six years old myself. By the time I had a son of my own (who is 20 now), I found ways to include him in my interests.

Teri, your son might enjoy some of the things my son did at that age. He did a lot of crayon drawings of the Titanic, some of which I've saved and still have. I also gave him some Lego blocks and challenged him to make a Titanic from the blocks. He enjoyed that and it kept him happily busy for quite awhile. I still have two of his best efforts on my mantel.

When he gets a little older, you might buy a Titanic model to make from the hobby store and it would be a nice project for you both to enjoy.

Also, there are dozens of terrific Titanic books written for children, which would help him to enjoy your interest and to improve his reading skills at the same time.

Good luck!
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Teri Lynn Milch

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2001
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Kyrila,

I was a great mummy today! I can see the change in him already. I've got to keep my discipline in for him, he really needs me.

That's very interesting about a ghost inhabiting your house. I fully believe in them but they don't scare me because I am somewhat of a psychic in that I can communicate with them. If "Stanley" gives you a hard time, just tell him to come see me, okay??? I'll have a good chat with him and you will probably never hear his "noisemaking" again.

Although you do not believe in reincarnation as I do, I fully accept you as you are. I am a very understanding person in this way, unlike others I know. I think the point here is that we all share a common bond -- Titanic, and it does not matter what beliefs we have beyond that.

Dear Tracy,

I will try those things you have mentioned, thank you. Hope he isn't too negative about Titanic already. Yikes!

Sincerely,

Teri
 
May 5, 2001
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Hello All,

How much of a Titanic Freak am I?

I have the following items:

a 3 foot as yet unfinished model.

a small 3-d jigsaw puzzle

about 4 or 5 websites I visit ( I only now post messages on this one )

Tons of documentaries on VHS

practically every Titanic movie made ( except S.O.S. Titanic, which was Hoorible )

A slew of books

a package containing facsmiles of charts, messages from Marconis, etc.

a Titanic that opens into a transformer ( I got that as a present )

a book that if you open it up, it's a huge blueprint of the entire ship.
%%%%%

I have even been lucky enough to communicate with a 3rd cousin of someone who died on The Titanic, someone famous but out of respect for their privacy, I will not reveal who it is......so please don't ask.

So yeah, you could say I'm a bit of a Titanic Fanatic as I like to call it.

I'm wide open for everything else tho',
Sincerly,
Bill
 

Teri Lynn Milch

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2001
1,053
2
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Dear William,

I am wondering, is your interest more with the people of the ship, or with the technical aspect of the ship?

Thanks for sharing your huge Titanic collection.

Also that must be very special to you to able to communicate with someone so close to Titanic as a family member. I won't ask who it is but do you know if they read ET postings (not necessary a member of ET) like we do? And do you know if they are they "into" Titanic like we are? Those are my questions for you.

Hey where did you get the blueprint book?

Teri
 

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