Artifacts washed ashore


George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, Steve!

Nice to see you here, old chap! Congratulations on your new book!

Try not to take it too hard that your publisher pulled a fast one on you at the last minute -- it happens all the time. The truly important thing is that your book contains significant new Titanic information, and everyone here is grateful to you for sharing that information with us.

I hope you'll continue to share your thoughts with us here on the ET bulletin board.

Take care, old chap.

All my best,

George
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Steve, FWIW, I think you can take some solace in the fact that you're not the only author to have publisher troubles. Dave Brown has had more then a few, and in my opinion, the publisher's intro in the flaps of the dust jacket actually did the book a disservice by making it look like sensational revisionist swill, and it is anything but sensationalist. David's text is actually one of the most thought provoking I've seen come down the pike in a long time.

He did a wonderful job of explaining some very esoteric nautical terminology as well as how and why ships behave as they do when manuevering. Hell, he sold me on the grounding scenerio and nowadays, as suspicious as I'm becoming of anything, that's no small accomplishment.

Now I'm just going to have to go and get yours. Hope you post something of yourself in the intro.
happy.gif


Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Steve Santini

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Nov 22, 2000
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Dear George,
Thank you for the ever so kind words! Do you have a copy yet? I know you purchased a copy of my first Titanic book, but I still do not know wether or not you acquired my most recent effort. Hopefully others will read the book and see some previously unseen pictures of Titanic related artifacts as well as read about a couple of tid bits of information they may not previously have ever heard/ thought of. We really should keep in touch more George. Anyway, all my best to you and Pat. Kind regards, Steve Santini
 

George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Steve wrote:

>Do you have a copy yet?

Hi, Steve!

Not yet, but I've been dropping enough hints around the house lately that I'm hoping Santa (or maybe one of his little female helpers who happens to live here with me) will bring me a copy for Christmas. :)

I've heard good things about your book from people whose word I trust, though, so I'm in no doubt at all about the value of your book.

>We really should keep in touch more George.

Absolutely. (We're off to a good start here on the ET board, though.) :)

>Anyway, all my best to you and Pat.

Thanks very much, Steve. My best wishes go out to you and your family as well.

All my best,

George
 
Dec 13, 1999
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For Mike Poirier, Yes, the package did arrive - many,many thanks! I did email you but am having all manner of problems with my emails, can't send any out, some I receive - some I don't. I put it all down to this Global Warming! I'll write to you, it will take longer of course but c'est la vie!
Geoff
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Hi Goerge OM, I didn't wait for Santa or his little chums. I ordered Steve's book from Amazon.com last night. Also ordered Butler's "Unsinkable, The Full Story of The RMS Titanic" I've been reading his tome on the Lusitania and so far, I like it.

Geoff, I'm still wondering if you've read that one and what you think of it...and if you know of any other sources for decent books on the Lucy. Amazon's pickings are kind of slim and half of what they list is out of print.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Ralph Cook

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Nov 1, 2000
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Bill and Joe,

Unfortunately your taking a literal reading of Steve's book is not accurate. Having spoken with him, I don't believe that he meant that the lifejacket was found washed up on a shore in a Canadian maritime. What he meant was that the lifejacket was discovered in a Canadian maritime - that is in someone's house that partook in the body recovery mission. I know this also, as the owner of a Titanic deck chair, because we researched deeply the movements of the ocean around the area and time of the Titanic disaster. All the evidence points to the fact that all of the Titanic's debris was moving with the Gulf Stream to the East and then Northeast of the sinking site. It is more likely that something washed up in Ireland than anywhere in Canada.

Ian McCarthy
 
Dec 12, 1999
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True enough, Ian, and members of the McKay-Bennett's crew believed that some of the wreckage would wash ashore in Ireland. The bottle with the Burke note that was found in Queenstown seems too convenient to believe, unless it was dropped off the ship shortly after leaving Queenstown. That appears to be possible, because the note is dated April 13, 1912, i.e., a day or two after the ship left Queenstown. Over time, those artifacts could travel great distances. In the instance of the Lusitania lifejacket, Dr. Ballard suggests that it was carried south by the current to Africa, then washed west, and bobbed its way to the U.S. east coast. Additionally, do you know where Collapsible A was found by Oceanic? Something leads me to believe it was very far south of the wrecksite. Perhaps wreckage moved in several directions. My point in starting this conversation is to find out if anyone had ever heard of artifacts washed ashore, anywhere. It seems that at least a few items would have reached the shoreline. But no one has heard of any.
 

Mike Herbold

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Dec 13, 1999
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Joe:
The bodies of Thomson Beattie and two sailors were found floating in Collapsible A one month after the Titanic disaster at Latitude 47 degrees, 10 minutes North by Longtitude 30 degrees, 56 minutes West. That was about 200 miles slightly south, but mostly east of the wreck site.
In June, the body of first class steward W.F. Cheverton was found by the steamer Ilford. It was enroute from Galveston, Texas to Hamburg, Germany, but I'm not sure of its location.
 

Ralph Cook

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Nov 1, 2000
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I heard of a story about a barrel washing up on Nantucket labeled 'Titanic' but I am sure it was not real. I read Steve's posts after sending in my most recent comments only to read that he already cleared up the points of where the lifejacket was found! Alan Ruffman, a Geomarinist and Titanic book author in Halifax is very clear on the currents pushing east and northeast only. So it is virtually impossible that any Titanic debris washed up in North America. The problem is/was: how to ascertain whether a piece of generic looking ship wreckage or ship supplies was from the Titanic and not any other ship? Obviously all the float had to either sink or wash up eventually but it was only generic ocean flotsam at that point!.

Ian McCarthy
 

Steve Santini

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Nov 22, 2000
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As an interesting and amusing aside to the "artifacts washed up on shore" topic, I have decided to add the following claims which I heard both while living in the Canadian Maritimes and in my travels elsewhere: Item 1: A man in Halifax claimed that his grandparents had "four or five" deck chairs from the Titanic that had washed up on the SOUTH SHORE of Nova Scotia! In typical fashion, when I asked him if I could see and inspect them, he informed me that his ancestors had "burned them all up for fire wood during a very nasty winter!" Item 2: A woman in Nova Scotia
who sold antiques has several matching White Star Line silver plated forks made by the firm of Elkington. When I asked her how she came to have so many of the same forks in near identical condition she replied, "My great uncle found an ENTIRE CHINA CABINET which had washed ashore from the Titanic on the nearby coast!" She then went on to explain that this same cabinet MUST have come from the kitched or dining room area as it contained the preiously mentioned tableware! Item 3: While attending a large antique show/ flea market in British Columbia some years ago, I ran into a man from Newfoundland. When I asked him if he had any ocean liner items he directed my attention to a small cast iron ship's wheel on his table. Questioned further by me as to where this item had come from, the man explained "Well young fellow, that wheel is from a Titanic lifeboat!" When I tried to explain to this "honest" merchant that the Titanic's life boats A) had no steering mechanism like this as they had no engines, and, B) All of the lifeboats picked up by the Carpathia were landed in New York, he grew angry and told me that I did not know s--t. He said if I was a REAL Titanic historian I would know that the Titanic's life boats were fitted with small "one lunger" engines! (the term "one lunger" is Maritime for "single cylinder" engine)and, that indeed, a number of these same boats had washed up on the Newfoundland coast!
Also, countless were the impossible stories concerning artifacts which had not been washed ashore but had instead been "pulled up" by fishing trawlers and the like. Many were the pieces of White Star china I ran into that were alleged to have come from Titanic.But the china was really a "minor" error as the "grand bogus Titanic artifact award" goes to a deck bench which was supposedly brought up in the net of a fishing trawler from near the area where the Titanic foundered. Put on display in a Maritime Museum, the deck bench was prominently featured in the news media and many clearly believed it to be the real thing. Indeed! Although the deck bench was in fact a White Star Line deck bench and clearly matched the dimensions and appearance of the ones on Titanic, nobody bothered to do their research which would have claerly showed that ALL White Star Line vessels of the period were fitted with the SAME BENCHES! Add to this the fact that NO fishing trawler, before or since, net drags for fish in 2 and 1/2 miles of water and the entire episode becomes comical to say the least! Yes indeed, there do exist a great many items claimed to be from the lost ship. In some cases, those owning such "artifacts" clearly believe them to be original and buy, "hook line and sinker", into the tall tales that past releations have told them. However, not all representations of alleged "Titanic artifacts" are quite so innocent or even quite so misguided. Year after year there appear those who, lured by the calling of big bucks, will attribute just about anything to the legendary liner in the hopes of an early retirement. Hope you all got as much of a chuckle out of hearing these fables as I did when I first heard them. Cheers! Steve Santini
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Steve,

Having noted problems with the Index page numbers of your: Titanic Touchstones of a Tragedy; I thought it might be helpful to note the correct page numbers as and when they can be identified.

While as noted by Bill Wormsteadt "the index appears to be just fine for pages below 93" after that it seems that the items are located haphazardly throughtout the text. Hope this means other items have not been removed to make way. So:

Ida & Isidor Straus: Index 110, actual 43-44
Bertram King: Index 103, actual 67
William Parker: Index 106, actual 66
Lillian Bentham: Index 97, actual 81
Howard Case: Index 98, actual 91
Molly Brown: Index 98, actual 82
WT Stead: Index 109, actual 51
John Snow: Index 109, actual 35
Thad Stevens: Index 109, actual 34
Reginald Lee: Index 103, actual 32
Frederick Fleet: Index 100, actual 32-33

Hope I have them correct.

Lester
 
Sep 12, 2000
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Dear Steve,

I very much enjoyed your sharing of the "artifacts". I especially liked the china cabinet one. Gee, wished I had thought of that!

When I sell mine they always have their original KMart Special tags on them and are wrapped in the orginal plastic and are generally made of real genuine resin. (giggles!) But I never ever thought of a holew completely outfitted china cabinet.

I am so glad that you are here Steve! Look forward to more!
Maureen.
 

Steve Santini

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Nov 22, 2000
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Dear Lester, (re: my index on "Titanic: Touchstones of a Tragedy": Yes, I am aware that the index in all screwed up. In fact, I posted a message on this some days ago. It is not however my fault. Look to my previous postings for my explanation as to what happened. I do, however, appreciate your bringing it to my attention.As I doubt there will be a massive second printing as the books are published "on demand", I fear the problem of the wonky index may haunt all editions of the book. I mentioned the problem to my publisher recently but they do not seem to want to do much about it. Once again, my apologies to all who bought the book. Be advised I will not be posting an explanation as to why the index is wrong after this particular posting. It is simply too annoying for me to continue to have to explain a defect in the book over which I, as the author, had no control. Thank you, Steve Santini.
 

Steve Santini

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Nov 22, 2000
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Dear Maureen,
I know it sounds ridiculous, but I actually heard all of those bogus "artifact" stories. Looking back on it, I should not be writing books... THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD! Fiction that is! And, don't fret, more Titanic lore and little known facts will soon be coming forth. Soon I will post a message giving more detail on the claims of passenger shootings on Titanic. I mention in my book that this (shooting victims) was reported by an undertaker who worked on the recovered bodies. However, I did not have the space in the chapter to go into all I knew about these claims. In a future posting to this site I will describe how I came to know about this undertaker as well a more detailed description of what he said about this to others. Take care, Steve Santini
 
Sep 12, 2000
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I simply can not wait Steve! And I fully and completely disagree with you about the fact that you should not be writing books they should...I believe that you should write a true fiction novel! One that based upon their fiction. You are so good!

And as regards your index.....I would come up with a totally bogus Latin term or Pig Latin term that tells it like it is without going into it for the faint of heart who have not read your otehr postings here. Personally, I think it is sad how most readers have no idea the limitations that authors have over things like indices, table of Contents, photos and the little words that come under those photos.

Something like Serious Irraticus Printicus Carbon Unit Failure At The Publishing Firm. That way its funny but it addresses the problem as not in your court.

Just a thought Steve, but I respect you so much and I will not address it again if you do not wish it to be addressed.

Youa re great and I am so glad that you post and are willing to post all of your observations regarding the bogus stuff. I believe that will be so great! Do you think it could be like an article that could be placed under the ET Research? I am excited to find out! Under taker goosebumps!

Have a great day. Kind Sir.
Maureen.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Steve,

Thank you I was aware of your posting. I posted the original message on the 21st. Bill commented on the 22nd and then you posted later the same day. So yes I accept that the error was not yours but your publisher's. I just thought it might be useful to have the correct pages numbers.

While I appreciate your closing comment I repeat that the entries are not where they should be after the other entries but are located haphazardly throughtout the text. To me this suggests that the publisher has had a greater impact than your posting indictes. It is not that the number of pages reduced from about 120 to 90 odd; but that the pages above 93 have been re-positioned haphazardly throughtout the text. So I still wonder if perhaps some items have been omitted.

Lester
 
Sep 12, 2000
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Dear Lester,

I don;t know how to say this except to say this. Steve Santani has chosen to grace us with his presence to post about artifacts being washed up (or not as the case,...or china cabinet may be).

He seems to have a great sense of humor and I for one look forward to his renditions of these stories he has hinted at here.

Anyway, I just simply believe that it is right to honor his wishes first of all and secondly, discussing indices in books belongs in the book thread perhaps but not here.

As I stated before, lining up books is difficult and is done wrong by some publishers occassionally. The Harland and Wolff book is a case inpoint. My guess is that the man knew his stuff, but that the typesetter and the photo layout dudes weren;t in sync. Anyone who has ever published anything ever or has put together any book knows that this stuff happens and is out of the author's control. He has contacted the Publisher to see of future books could be modified and apparently that isn;t happening either. So what is your point?

Please just drop as he has asked. Please.

The book is correct. the index is out of whack due to Serious Irraticus Printicus Carbon Unit Failure. And as I have just learned, that it is most likely due to the publishers milk had gone wrong! Or they buy their coffee from a lady in mittens.

Steve Santini is a great guy.

Lester, hope that helped. But that is as much of an answer as you are getting.
Maureen.
 

Steve Santini

Member
Nov 22, 2000
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Dear Lester,
I apologize for not answering or addressing your earlier query where you inquired wether or not there were any items, chapters, pages, or artifact photos left out of the book. I can say with complete certainty that the book, even it this form with it's jumbled up index, is complete. There is absolutely nothing at all left out. I fear this issue of the messed up index may actually have some folks thinking that they are not getting the full and complete manuscript. I must thank you once again for bringing it to my attention.Initially, I believed that the messed up index was bad enough. However, now (thanks to your second posting) I dread the thought that anyone who buys the book may believe that they are not getting the complete package. I have resolved to get on my publisher's case first thing tommorow. Oh, and Maureen, thank you very much for your kind and thoughtful words. Regards to all, Steve Santini.
 

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