Artifacts


Jan 31, 2001
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Hello Sandro,

And, sadly, there will never be anymore pictures taken of the interior of the gymnasium. I have heard that the entire structure is now flatter than a pancake. Really quite sad.

-B.W.
 
T

Trent Pheifer

Guest
Hey Brandon.

Do you know if the submersibles flattened the gymnasium or it happened by itself??

-Trent
 
S

Sarah Krans

Guest
The Gymnasium collapsed on its own--basically the iron is rusting away the the ocean pressure got the best of it just like it will the rest of the ship in the next few years.
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 25, 2001
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Hello Everyone!
The Lounge statue (I am guessing) has not been recovered. If it had, we would know about it, just like how we know about the GSC cherub.
Brandon,
I doubt that they would not bring it up simply because the arm is broken. The cherub is much more damaged than that. Its feet are broken and the torch is missing.
I suspect that it has not yet been recovered because they can't find it. Apparently, Ballard is the only one to have seen it, since his picture is the only one we have seen. Ballard is devoutly anti-recovery and would not have brought it up. The debris field is a vast place, and all expeditions since have not yet run across it.
David
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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I just saw Brandon's post. Forgive me for not responding sooner, Brandon. The Artemis statue has been photographed once, but the location was poorly documented. No one knows the exact location. It was an objective for the Expedition in 2000, but it was not found. This was an objectiver for the 1998 expedition - to do a video survey of the debris field - using digital technology. The survey would 'mow the lawn' back and forth over the debris field using coordinate points. That way, specific items such as the Artemis could be located much simpler.

The gymnasium roof has coolapsed as Sarah Krans said. Hello Sarah. There is one unique picture that has been mis-captioned that shows the gymnasium. If you have Susan Wels book, (the Discovery book with the wax paper cover), see page 149. If you have the soft cover version, its the same page. At the bottom of the photo is clearly the foot pedal of the stationary bicycle. The post pointing toward the camera would hold the seat. Over to the right, past the diagonal piece of wood, you can see the image of the wheel in the shadows.

Don't be confused by the cherub on exhibit. Several have stated that it is from the Grand Staircase. It's not. It's from the REAR staircase, in the break. The Grand Staircase cherub is slightly larger than this one, plus the GS version is holding the lamp in the opposite hand. In the soft cover Wels, p 29, is the recovered cherub, with lamp in the right hand. On p 28 is the photo of the GS, and the cherub clearly holds the lamp in the left hand. Even the caption suggests the recovered cherub is from the aft staircase. The base of the recovered cherub, with remaining feet, was recovered in 2000.

The GS cherub should be at the bottom of the stairwell in the bow section of the ship. It has not been seen on the platform around the stairwell.

Bill
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 25, 2001
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Hello Bill,
FASCINATING pic of the Gym, but they label it as the stern. I wonder why?
Also, wasn't the Fwd. GSC cherub dressed in a tunic or something? The recovered one is in the nude (Oh la la!)
Regards,
David
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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Hi David,

I'm not sure about the gym picture. I can only assume it was mis-labeled somewhere in the process of printing the book. Its very obvious that the bicycle is in the picture, once it's pointed out.

I do think the cherub has a drape of some sort around it. You've caught me off guard on that one.

BW
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 25, 2001
503
7
183
Bill,
Where is the bike pic taken from? After looking at pre-sinking pics of the gym, I realized that the bikes are on the opposite end of the room of the windows. How could that pic have been taken?
re the cherub
The recovered cherub is wearing a shroud that is draped over the right shoulder, but nothing else. I'm VERY confused though, because both the forward and aft staircase cherubs were wearing a cloth around their waists and had wings. the recovered cherub has neither. Where DID the cherub come from? A lower landing perhaps?

David.
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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David, the opening that used to be a window would have been the third gymnasium window if my memory serves me correctly. I would not be surprised if the equipment in the gym became displaced when the bow pointed downward.

Remember the bicycle role in the Astor story. While sitting on the stationary bike, Madeleine Astor asked her husband what the lifebelts were made of. He opened his using his knife and showed her.

I'm confident that the recovered cherub is not from the grand staircase. Too many times people identify it as such, however. I doubt this cherub came from the bow area at all, considering its place in the debris field, and the location of the pedestal base in the same area this past expedition. It had to come from the aft staircase.

Bill
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 25, 2001
503
7
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Hello again Bill,
I thought the Astors were sitting on the camel, but that doesn't mean that the bike is without history. Lawrence Beesley was photographed on the bike by Fr. Brown.
I completely agree that the cherub is not from the Fwd. GSC, but I'm saying that it couldn't have come from the Aft one either!
This is from my last post:
The recovered cherub is wearing a shroud that is draped over the right shoulder, but nothing else. I'm VERY confused though, because both the forward and aft staircase cherubs were both wearing cloths around their waists and had wings. The recovered cherub has neither.
This is what leads me to believe that the cherub is (maybe) from a lower landing.
David
 
May 2, 2000
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Hi david and Bill, in the book the discovery of the titanic (Robert Ballard), Edition in spanish
on the page 186 is the pic of the windows of the gym and inside there are remainder of a electric camel, remainder of mechanic horse (lever and other remnants). although The gymnasium roof has coolapsed the remainder are there. The pic of the artemis statue is in page 171 (she seems intact). Why there are best pics of the wreck in the expedition 1987 than of the others expeditions. I cant´t find pics of expedition 2000.
 

Bill Willard

Member
Mar 24, 2001
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Sandro, Ballard did not participate in the Expeditions by RMS Titanic, Inc.. His photos are from 1985 and 1986. The Expedition 2000 pictures have not been released in book form, except in the new exhibition catalog by Judith Geller.

Bill
 
R

Ralph Joseph Cook Jr.

Guest
Hello to everyone. I have a announcement. The Titanic Deck Chair that you may be familiar with at the Ship Of Dreams exhibition in Orlando is going up for sale.
Henry Aldridge & Son, Devizes Auctioneers of Wiltshire, England are the only Auction House to hold specialist sales of RMS Titanic. The Auction is set For September 15, 2001.

Ralph Cook
 
S

Sean Tatschl

Guest
I have acquired a piece of china that in all aspects mirrors the blue and white pattern used in second class in the Cafe Parisien. The pattern has been identified as "Delph" and manufactured in England by James M. Shaw & Co. I know the company was in business in 1908 but outside of that, I don't know much about them. Does anyone know their years of operation? Did they make china for White Star?

Any info would be helpful. I'm hoping I have the original pattern before White Star would have put their logo on it.

Thanks
Sean
 
Jun 10, 1999
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Hello:

I understand that when the *little cherub* was
found on the sea bottom, only the right foot was exposed from the sediment, ultimately revealing the entire cherub (Minus left foot which was also recovered on a later dive)

Was the left foot re-attached to the cherub? If so what type of method was implied on this palpable *silent witness*?

Michael A. Cundiff
USA
 

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