Artistic accuracy or not

[yurisingleton]

In many paintings of the Titanic sinking there are icebergs and bits of smaller ice seen drifting very close to the ship. In some cases ice is seen almost all around. I would like to know if there were in fact pieces of ice drifting in close proximity to the Titanic while she sank, or if the lifeboats had to contend with pieces of ice in the water. Any sizable pieces of ice floating nearby would no doubt have complicated the task of rescueing [sup]sp?[/sup] people struggling in the water after the ship went down, or with attempts to organize the lifeboats during the night.
Yuri

 

[Michael H. Standart]

This one will be rather hard to assess as they didn't even see any really signifigent ice until they actually hit the iceberg...yet the icefeild was sufficiently dense that the notorious Californian stopped for the night.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Paul Williams]

In the U.S. disaster hearings, several survivors said that they never saw any ice until daylight when they saw ice all around them for a great distance. Some did see some ice that fell onto the ship.

 

[George Behe]

Michael Standart wrote:

>This one will be rather hard to assess as they >didn't even see any
>really signifigent ice until they actually hit >the iceberg...yet the
>icefeild was sufficiently dense that the >notorious Californian stopped
>for the night.

Hi, Michael!

Actually, it's quite possible that the fatal iceberg was not the first one that was seen by Titanic's lookouts that night; a number of survivor accounts exist which suggest that three additional bergs might have been seen and reported to the bridge in the half hour preceding 11:40 p.m.

All my best,

George

 

[Steve Arnold]

In Polar the Titanic Bear Daisy Spedden writes the line "The first rays of the sun cast a wonderful glow on the icebergs that rose from the ocean all around us." Young Douglas Spedden is then quoted as saying "Oh, Muddie, look at the beautiful North Pole with no Santa Claus on it," a line which is also quoted in A Night to Remember. These quotes would indicate quantities ice being clearly visible.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Hi George, thanks for the input on this. Yes, it's possible that they may have seen and reported some bergs, but running on a calm sea on a moonless night, they may have had no real idea how dense the ice feild really was. I served in the U.S. Navy for twenty years and I have had my share of low visibility details and watches as well as strolls on deck at night. Few people other then those who have done it have any real idea just how black it can get at sea. Even if stars are out, you can't see very far. The Titanic's lookouts also would have been handicapped by the lights shining out from the ship like the proverbial Christmas tree. This would actually impair night vision drastically

Been there, done that! Don't care to do it again either.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
SH-1 USN/Ret.

 

[yurisingleton]

Surely if there were icebergs seen by the lookouts or by officer Murdoch on the bridge in the minutes before the collision he would have notified the Capt. or reduced speed on his own authority.
Perhaps Michael could confirm that is it standard procedure at sea to reduce speed from Full Ahead when ice, or any objects, are seen nearby at night. Right?
Yet by many artistic depictions, one would assume that there was plenty of ice floating all around the ship, and it would appear to be clearly illuminated by the lights of the ship.
My feeling on this is that most likely there was very little ice near the ship while it sank and that the paintings are being used to tell the story of the disaster which must include reference to the icefield. Any depictions of the ship sinking made to emphasize accuracy would not show any ice within view of the ship or lifeboats.
The ice seen in the morning by survivors was no doubt far enough away that it had no effect on the navigation of the lifeboats during the sinking or afterward.
Agree?

Appreciative,
Yuri

 

[KAREN ANGSTADT]

I recently saw a an episode of Antiques Roadshow on PBS where someone had what could have possibly been a pic of the iceberg that sank the Titanic. The gentlemans' grandparents were on the Carpathia when it picked up the survivors and his grandmother snapped a pic of a huge iceberg slightly off in the distance. They had pics of the lifeboats, some survivors, the iceberg and some type of dinner biscuit. I though it was pretty exciting. Karen

 

[KAREN ANGSTADT]

I recently saw a an episode of Antiques Roadshow on PBS where someone had what could have possibly been a pic of the iceberg that sank the Titanic. The gentlemans' grandparents were on the Carpathia when it picked up the survivors and his grandmother snapped a pic of a huge iceberg slightly off in the distance. They had pics of the lifeboats, some survivors, the iceberg and some type of dinner biscuit. I though it was pretty exciting. Karen

 

[Michael Gibbs]

I don't think the actual iceberg was photographed from the Carpathia, but from a German ship, called the Prinz *** something ***. This picture was taken the following morning, in the vicinity of the Titanic's sinking place.

It was a large pointy, shaped berg, similar to what Fleet described. Reportedly, it had a large smear of RED PAINT along it's base... I believe this picture is reproduced in Walter Lord's 'A Night to Remember'.

 

[Steve Arnold]

I can't remember when the Antiques Roadshow episode ran, but I recall that the photograph bore a remarkable resemblance to the one in 'A Night to Remember.' But from the TV screen one couldn't see it clearly enough to tell for sure if it was the same one.

I don't remember what value was given to the artifacts, but it was a pretty good price.

 

[yurisingleton]

Does anyone know if there were other incidents associated with that particular ice flow that destroyed the Titanic?
Yuri

 

[Pat Cook]

To Karen & Steve,

The episode of "The Antiques Roadshow" was the one in Baltimore, Maryland. The items were brought down by Mary Lou Fenwick (daughter-in-law of James and Mabel Fenwick who took the photos) and her son George. The items included several photos taken aboard the Carpathia, including one of Lawrence Beesley and Hilda Slayter and, as you mentioned, several iceberg snaps, a hand written letter from Beesley and, of course, the 'biscuit' . Mrs. Fenwick didn't speak, at least during the shown material, leaving her son to do the explaining. Personally, I wish they could've given them more time but, from what I have been told, that segment almost didn't make the show at all as the producers voiced their opinion that too much material was already devoted to Titanic during past shows. Mrs. Fenwick, by the way, no longer lives in Baltimore.

Some of these photos may be seen in "Titanic - An Illustrated History" by Lynch and Marschall, on page 160.

Also, as I remember it, the value placed by the appraiser was around $65,000.00. However, he DID say it could go much higher at auction.

Hope this is of some help.

Best regards,
Cook

 

[KAREN ANGSTADT]

Thanks alot Pat!! I guess I got some of the details confused. Do you think the iceberg in the picture could be 'the one'?

I was upset too that they didn't take more time with it. To be honest I watch the show every week and that's the first time Titanic has been shown. Karen

 

[George Behe]

Yuri Singleton wrote:

>My feeling on this is that most likely there was very little ice near
>the ship while it sank ......

Hi, Yuri!

Although Titanic had not quite reached the *main* icefield before the collision took place, the ice charts reproduced in the Senate Inquiry clearly show that Titanic did not strike the icefield's easternmost iceberg; Titanic had begun steaming through the outer reaches of the icefield as soon as she traversed 49W, and it's almost inconceivable that the lookouts would have failed to notice at least a *few* of the scattered bergs that dotted the ship's path between 49W and the site of the collision. (That the lookouts *did* see a few of these bergs is strongly suggested by comments that the lookouts are said to have made to fellow survivors while still on board the Carpathia.)

A quick note to Michael Standart: thanks very much for sharing your personal experiences re: visibility at sea during the hours of darkness. Good stuff!

All my best,

George