Asplund auction

[suzanne bessent]

nypost com/seven/04032008/news/worldnews/titanic_auction_104808.htm
TITANIC AUCTION
AP

April 3, 2008 -- LONDON - A collection of artifacts owned by a Titanic survivor - including a ticket for the ill-fated voyage - will be sold at an auction in London later this month.

[Moderator's Notes: 1. Edited to remove article, due to copyright issues. 2. Edited link, due to width requirements. JDT]

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Lot 319 : R.M.S TITANIC - LILLIAN ASPLUND COLLECTION: A GOLD
R.M.S TITANIC - LILLIAN ASPLUND COLLECTION: A GOLD PLATED WALTHAM AMERICAN POCKET WATCH, THE PROPERTY OF CARL ASPLUND. THE WATCH HAS SUFFERED OBVIOUS TRAUMA, THE MOVEMENT IS MISSING POSSIBLY LOST IN ITS RECOVERY. THE HANDS ARE FROZEN IN TIME AT 2.19a [...more]


Location: United Kingdom

Auction Date : 2008

 

[Dana Cantu]

Wow, that'd be amazing to have that watch. Too bad I'm stuck in Texas. Thanks for posting the information! I'd like to see who walks away with it.

 

[Jeff Kelley]

I am not sure how the movement would be lost in recovery. More likely someone tried to repair it, replace it, or pulled it to use in another watch.

 

[Dana Cantu]

ohh that's a thought Jeff,
I didn't think about something like that. Aw that's too bad. Although, I've read in another book (I think it was the "I was there book" told through the eyes of Jack Thayer and Harold Bride, there was picture of a pocket watch with the hands broken from "obvious trama" not sure if this might be the same watch, but I've seen it.

 

[Jeff Kelley]

The hands I would understand, but the link says (if I recall correctly) "movement", which is the inside mechanism. This would not just fall out.

Back in the pocket watch days, the case and movement were separate entities. You could buy them as one unit, of course, but you could also specify a certain case with a certain movement, and movements were also sold separately so they could be installed in your watch case.

If the Asplund watch is missing the movement, it had to have been removed (unless the watch case was literally ripped apart in the sinking, which is not likely). If the movement was still working, chances are it was removed to use in another watch, or if it was broken, it was likely removed for repair or replacement, but never replaced.

Quite frankly, I think think it is deceptive and/or irresponsible for the auction house to suggest that the movement could have been lost in the sinking or when the body was retrieved.

 

[Dana Cantu]

Oh opps, Yes, I think you are right. Sorry!

 

[Mike Poirier]

Hi Jeff,

Aldridge and Sons has been around for many years and has an excellent reputation. The rare Titanic relics they have sold have ended up in museums and very knowledgeable collectors. I would probably suggest looking at their various catalogues and the memorabilia they have sold. I think it is unfair to label their descriptions as deceptive.

Mike

 

[Timothy Trower]

I dunno -- I seem to remember a bit of a question about a key tag last year.

 

[Jason Schleisman]

Seconded, Tim.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I seem to remember a bit of a question about a key tag last year.<<

Considering the hostile reaction such questions posed, let's not go into that here.

 

[Mike Poirier]

I suppose, it would depend on who is doing the questioning and if they have 100% positive proof. Sometimes, we can't go along with 'gut' instincts. Anyone can offer an opinion, of course. Some might question the veracity of even smaller items, like cane, wood and cork, but at the end of the day, it is just an opinion. Looking at the many catalogs and the years of a sterling reputation, I would still say, the odds were in Aldridge's favor.

 

[Jeff Kelley]

"Hi Jeff,
Aldridge and Sons has been around for many years and has an excellent reputation. The rare Titanic relics they have sold have ended up in museums and very knowledgeable collectors. I would probably suggest looking at their various catalogues and the memorabilia they have sold. I think it is unfair to label their descriptions as deceptive.
Mike"

You are right - I do need to check out the actual auction listing, but I was basing my reaction on the article that was linked to the original post. If the article's author made up that scenario on his/her own, then they are the responsible party.

I stand by my original point, though, in that a pocket watch movement doesn't normally get lost or just drop out of the case short of some sort of catastrophic damage to the case.

 

[Eric Longo]

Actual auction text:
"THE MOVEMENT IS MISSING POSSIBLY LOST IN ITS RECOVERY"

Eric

 

[Jeff Kelley]

Thanks for providing the wording.

(They could just as easily have said that it was "possibly removed by space aliens.")

As far as I am concerned, this sort of speculation is made for the purpose of trying to acceptably mitigate the fact that the item is not complete. The basic fact is, the movement is missing, and there are any number of scenarios that could be considered. To present only one scenario (which happens to be the one that adds to the romance and mystique of the item), is questionable in my opinion.

The watch is a very historic artifact as is, and does not need embellishing. I would like to see a picture of it, and if the "trauma" that is mentioned involves damage to a key area of the watch (the edge in a particular spot), then maybe the speculation is somewhat more reasonable, but it is still just speculation.

I am not calling the auction house a liar, but I personally do not endorse this kind of description. These things tend to evolve over time, and the next person to sell it may drop the "possibly" from the description.

 

[Eric Longo]

"The basic fact is, the movement is missing, and there are any number of scenarios that could be considered. To present only one scenario (which happens to be the one that adds to the romance and mystique of the item), is questionable in my opinion."

And it is, probably, the most unlikely scenario. Watch movements just don't fall out or go missing as you've already indicated. I find this wording unnecessary and unfortunate.

Best,
Eric