Assistance

Rob Lawes

Member
Jun 13, 2012
1,064
596
143
England
I take it you mean while Titanic was still afloat?

In which case not a lot. The days of mobile pumps and damage control teams were a long way off and mostly confined to Navies and the influx of water into her hull was too great for any amount of help.
 
Dec 4, 2000
3,240
483
213
Personally, it's my opinion that John's question (above) hits the nail on he thumb. It's the "Ouchy" question that was avoided at all costs in 1912 and has continued to be ignored. Was there more that could have been done? Perhaps Titanic was lost, but would it have been possible with the knowledge and equipment aboard to have prolonged the life of the ship?

Even so, the kind of damage control which can be applied in even nondescript small vessels today far exceeds the knowledge and equipment available to Chief Engineer Bell and his men.

-- David G. Brown
 
Oct 11, 2018
7
0
1
Yes...while still afloat. I hear over and over.....If some ship was closer.....but I don't know what else a close ship could have done besides pickup survivors in the lifeboats....If the Titanic was merely disabled...there might have been time to ferry all the passengers off....



I take it you mean while Titanic was still afloat?

In which case not a lot. The days of mobile pumps and damage control teams were a long way off and mostly confined to Navies and the influx of water into her hull was too great for any amount of help.
 

mitfrc

Member
Jan 3, 2017
184
145
53
36
New England
Titanic's crew might have fully loaded the boats in confidence that the steamer standing off would calm people and prevent a rush at the gangways. Boats of the steamer standing off would be used to rescue people from the gangways. Boats would offload people and then pull back for more. When Titanic sinks, the boats would still stand off to avoid being swamped, but not carrying passengers they would move in sooner and more aggressively to save those in the water. The rescuing steamer herself would very slowly steam into the mass in the water and halt with nets rigged, which would predominantly save strong and fit young men.
 
May 3, 2005
2,227
170
133
What else could have assisting ships done besides pick up the survivors in the lifeboats ?
If you mean after Titanic had sunk ?
Provide medical help, food and drink, space for rest and transportation to New York.

Which brings up a question.
Were all some 700 odd survivors taken inside the ship for shelter from the weather or did some remain outside on the open decks ?
 
May 3, 2005
2,227
170
133
Personally, it's my opinion that John's question (above) hits the nail on he thumb. It's the "Ouchy" question that was avoided at all costs in 1912 and has continued to be ignored. Was there more that could have been done? Perhaps Titanic was lost, but would it have been possible with the knowledge and equipment aboard to have prolonged the life of the ship?

Even so, the kind of damage control which can be applied in even nondescript small vessels today far exceeds the knowledge and equipment available to Chief Engineer Bell and his men.

-- David G. Brown
I think Mersey ignored the question when he said ''Many , if not all , could have been saved if Californian had answered Titanic's distress and had come immediately to their assistance." (If not correct, something on the order of that quote.)
 

Aristide

Member
Feb 10, 2019
20
7
3
Aix-en-Provence
I thought about it, but could a big liner like the SS France really help in any way?

The Titanic was sinkng rather quickly and in the later phase it became chaotic and uncontrollable. So any other liner would need to keep a great distance and would not be able to halt alongside the Titanic. It would have been impossible to create a direct connection between both ships. Even under normal conditions it would be almost impossible without assistance of tugs ect.

So i assume the other liner would keep distance and only option would be to ferry passenger with life boats from one vessel to the other. That takes very much time and is very slow and even that would have to stop, once the Titanic gets too unstable. I would also assume the rising panic ect would make things even more difficult.

So what you say?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kas01

Kas01

Member
May 24, 2018
149
41
38
24
I thought about it, but could a big liner like the SS France really help in any way?

The Titanic was sinkng rather quickly and in the later phase it became chaotic and uncontrollable. So any other liner would need to keep a great distance and would not be able to halt alongside the Titanic. It would have been impossible to create a direct connection between both ships. Even under normal conditions it would be almost impossible without assistance of tugs ect.

So i assume the other liner would keep distance and only option would be to ferry passenger with life boats from one vessel to the other. That takes very much time and is very slow and even that would have to stop, once the Titanic gets too unstable. I would also assume the rising panic ect would make things even more difficult.

So what you say?
Probably the best point made here. What everybody is seemingly forgetting is that the nearest wreck to Titanic in terms of chronology would have been Republic, which took over 18 hours to sink, 10 of which were spent in the daylight transferring passengers. I don't want to sound like a Lordite but the major issue I have with researchers who have concluded that more lifeboats would have helped is that the engineering and victualling crew would have had to man the boats. How many of the engineering or victualling crew would have been able to man the boats under normal circumstances, much less without qualified seamen in the boats?

You simply cannot assume that every passenger or engineering/victualling crewman is a Major Peuchen.
 

Bob_Read

Member
May 9, 2019
305
115
43
USA
Planning for accidents is almost always based on previous accidents. The Republic incident probably figured prominently in safety preparations for Olympic and Titanic. Collision with another ship was the most likely accident. The Hawke incident showed that. The most significant lifesaving measure on Olympic and Titanic was the watertight subdivision. A collision like with Republic plus wireless technology should have given ample time for passengers to be ferried to rescue vessels with Olympic/Titanic’s original boat complement plus those of the rescue vessel(s). A holing of as many watertight compartments as Titanic had never happened before. Even with the improvements made to Olympic and Britannic after the Titanic disaster, I think that chances are good that with both ships would have sunk. I think that even with the extra lifeboats there may have been considerable loss of life.
 

Seumas

Member
Mar 25, 2019
395
152
43
Glasgow, Scotland
Probably the best point made here. What everybody is seemingly forgetting is that the nearest wreck to Titanic in terms of chronology would have been Republic, which took over 18 hours to sink, 10 of which were spent in the daylight transferring passengers. I don't want to sound like a Lordite but the major issue I have with researchers who have concluded that more lifeboats would have helped is that the engineering and victualling crew would have had to man the boats. How many of the engineering or victualling crew would have been able to man the boats under normal circumstances, much less without qualified seamen in the boats?

You simply cannot assume that every passenger or engineering/victualling crewman is a Major Peuchen.
I do agree with you that if the ship had more boats it's still unlikely that the crew would have had enough time to launch them all.

If there had been a dozen more standard sized boats for example, might the crew have been spurned on to work a wee bit faster ? Might they possibly have prioritised these extra standard boats and just left Collapsibles C & D to float off ? It's impossible to say.

Some of the stewards, cooks, firemen and trimmers who took to manning the boats handled them fine and without controversy.

On the other hand, some of them found it very difficult. A mixed bag really.

Because so many of the victualling and engineering crew died in the sinking and never got the chance to prove themselves at handling the boats we just don't know.

It's also worth pointing out that many of the women were quite willing to pitch in and help with the oars, whilst Tommy Jones and Joseph Boxhall both gave the tiller to a woman and took turns themselves at the oars.
 
Last edited:

Bob_Read

Member
May 9, 2019
305
115
43
USA
Why do they need to “handle” the boats? All they needed to do is display lanterns or flares. Other ships knew their general vicinity.
 

Seumas

Member
Mar 25, 2019
395
152
43
Glasgow, Scotland
Wouldn't you still need to row a good two hundred or three hundred yards off the ship though ?

After all a lot of those in the boats will be under the mistaken belief that the dreaded suction will occur - although as we now know there was either none at all or else it was very, very slight.

Didn't less than half the boats have a lantern with them ? You know this kind of thing much better than I do Bob. ;)
 

Bob_Read

Member
May 9, 2019
305
115
43
USA
Nobody reached them till dawn so lanterns were not needed. The only real danger may have been from a falling funnel. Three boat lengths away from the ship would have been safe.
 
May 3, 2005
2,227
170
133
IF (and that is, a great big "IF") what is the opinion of those better able to answer my question.......
"IF" Titanic had sufficient number of lifeboats for all concerned , could all have been gotten into the lifeboats and off safely in the time available ?
 
May 3, 2005
2,227
170
133
I have problems some time on time running out when posting replies so I will make this a separate question ?
"IF" all could have been gotten into lifeboats safely, how much help would Californian realistically been able to accomplish by itself ?
Even Carpathia ? All 2000 + that is ?
 

Seumas

Member
Mar 25, 2019
395
152
43
Glasgow, Scotland
Carpathia certainly was crowded enough with the extra 712 aboard.

Had (for whatever reason) the Titanic sank as slowly as the Republic did and time allowed for the rescue ships to get there in time for a grand transfer to take place then they probably would have needed other ships (Californian, Birma, Mount Temple, Baltic, Frankfurt) to take the full 2208.
 

Bob_Read

Member
May 9, 2019
305
115
43
USA
They would be able to save 2000. Crowded? Yes. But some or all would have been transferred to larger vessels.