At the VERY end of the movie

  • Thread starter Caroline Chavez
  • Start date

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Caroline Chavez

Guest
I just posted "MUSIC ON TITANIC (CAMERON)" When i was writing that it made me realize something, at the end of the movie how the camera takes us down to the ship and transform on how it looks in 1912....Rose enters the room and we see most people there. We all recognize most of the people, but we don not see Cal, Roses Mother, Molly, etc. The people that where with Rose the hole time in the movie. We see Jack, Mr. Andrews, The Captian, Musicians, and others. But why do you think Ruth, Cal, Molly... thoes people where not there, but others where? Thank you all so much for your responces.
-Caroline :)
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
My impression is that it was a 'victims only' sort of private function. Ruth, Cal and Molly all survived.

I wondered if Murdoch was feeling uncomfortable - after all, he never met the little bint (at least not on screen!) and his only contact with her little coterie was to shoot her lover's mate. And where is Moody? And Wilde? Bell? My take on it? I reckon they were in the pub waiting for Murdoch to join them after he's finished his Afterlife Welcome Wagon duties. I reckon they have to rotate this obligation, or perhaps draw straws on who has to sit around on the bottom of the sea waiting for someone they've barely - if ever - met to show up so they can give them a round of applause. Alternatively, they are just so over the whole sunken ship thing they just don't bother to visit anymore. Better things to do with their eternities than hang around forever on the Titanic. After all, it can't hold many good memories for them, now, can it?
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
Caroline, there was some recent discussion about who was/was not entitled to haunt the wreck in the thread 'Sequel to Titanic (1997)' in this section. If I remember right, the general conclusion that was they needed (a) to have died with the Titanic and (b) be one of the good guys. Plus they needed also to be still under contract to Cameron and not moved on to work on other films!
 
T

Tom Pappas

Guest
I don't subscribe to any religious dogma, but isn't the measure of eternity the idea that an entire lifetime is less than the flick of an eye? So hanging around until everyone who survived the disaster came back for a visit wouldn't impact one's eternal schedule at all.
 
C

Caroline Chavez

Guest
Well all i know INGER is ROSE was also a survivor. Molly was a good person......
-Caroline
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
Tom's post conjures up images of a Rossettian afterlife for me, with Jack in the role of The Blessed Damozel!

The wonder was not yet quite gone
From that still look of hers;
Albeit, to them she left, her day
Had counted as ten years.

(To one, it is ten years of years.
. . . . . . . Yet now, and in this place,
Surely she lean'd o'er me--her hair
Fell all about my face . . . . . . . .
Nothing: the autumn fall of leaves.
The whole year sets apace.)


The sequence takes place in what seems like a linear, tangible afterlife (sort of the equivalent of the heavenly cocktail party that some envision as their Valhalla, where you can meet and greet either those from your own life or anyone who has predeceased you). But perhaps it is like the Faerieland feared by ancient Celtic races...could Rose have turned away from the light and gone back to her world, she might have found that she'd spent a year in a coma rather than mere moments on the sunken ship!

I still have problems with the idea of these figures being tied to the wrecksite, although perhaps if - as I suggested above - it is entirely voluntary, that would explain the absence of some individuals?

And yes, Caroline, Rose is indeed a survivor. Which had me humming 'One of these things is not like the others...one of these things isn't quite the same!' She's a bit of an odd one out, isn't she? I would hope that she didn't get special privleges and it's entirely accidental that no one who survived the wreck, except for her, is shown in that scene. After all, there are many who lost loved ones on the ship...some of them had had relationships for more than a couple of days, even ;) Perhaps they're hanging in the back of the crowd.

I did like the solution put forward by one reviewer. Like the ship itself, recreated in all its glory, these people aren't actually there! They're a sort of spiritual hologram, a backdrop to Rose's personal afterlife. So while Rose gets that resolution, the others, when they died, got to go on to cracking afterlifes of their own. Better than a series of disjointed vignettes, zapping back and forward to the wreck to welcome folks back on board.

Of course, all the above is written firmly tongue in cheek, and is a moot point anyway if she's not dead - only dreaming.

(Just as a side note, Caroline - I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you, but can I ask you to watch your use of ALLCAPS? If you read the rules of the board, you'll find that this is considered shouting and is poor netiquette. By typing my name in all capitals as you have in the above post, and have done to others, you are in effect shouting our names...not very polite, and I imagine not at all what you really want to do.)
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
My take on the final scene is that 'old Rose' is not dead but dying. Her alloted span for conscious awareness is over. Cameron shows us the final creation of her subconscious mind - images of a personal valhallah before she finally departs the land of the living and, if you like, 'goes to the light'. Since Rose is the casting director for her own dream, Jack has the starring role, the 'extras' are all benevolent and the villains are not welcome. As observers, we know more than Rose does about what 'really' happened (or at least the Cameron version of reality), so we shouldn't be surprised that, for instance, Murdoch and Jack's Irish friend appear as smiling companions - Rose knew of no reason why not.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
Ah, but Bob - the argument has oft been posited by viewers of the film that the whole experience is not from an objective viewpoint but rather from Rose's subjective interpretation and narrative. What we are seeing on screen is not what actually happened, but Rose's reconstruction of it. So although she was not present for events such as the shooting of O'Brien or Murphy or O'Leary or O'Donohue or whomever our Oirish friend was, as she is the narrator and the eyes through which we perceive it, she knows - or believes - that he met his end at the hands of 'that limey b*******'. Or at least that's how she's telling it (although she couldn't possibly know about what happened at that point, unless someone later told her on the Carpathia. Maybe Eugene Daly or Rosa Abbott had a word to her about it). Perhaps she rather big heartedly doesn't hold him responsible for it after all, and still reckons that, although she never met him (at least not onscreen), Murdoch is a rather spiffy bloke and she has no problem having him there at her afterlife reception.
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
Why, that was me Oirish cousin Flannery, and I'll thank you to notice that he shaved for the finale! If you look closely, you'll also notice that Andrews (Victor Garber - be still, my heart) is mouthing, "Mary Lynn is a fine woman"! There's nothing about the magic of the cinema to intrigue us all, is there?
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
Amended to say, "There's nothing LIKE the magic of cinema to intrigue us all, is there"?

Sorry...I was having a Victor Garber moment.
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
Inger, I can see how Rose might have had her own ideas about some events which went unrecorded and unwitnessed (like the final moments of the Strausses), and maybe bit part players like 'Irish mommy' and her kids were Roses's own creation as generic victims. But are we to believe that conversations on the Carpathia, even if supplemented by meticulous study of the findings of the official enquiries, could have provided her with the wealth of human and technical detail needed to flesh out Cameron's screenplay? Maybe he intended the audience rather to experience a sequence of images which were the conceptions variously of both Rose and her immediate audience, including the experts in the recovery team. Does it matter? Probably not, but the pubs are shut!
wink.gif


Mary, I know the feeling. Back in the good old days of ANTR I used to have Honor Blackman moments
mad.gif
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
Hullo, Bob! Have you ever wondered if our "moments" may have been affected by Jack Bristow and Ms. P. Galore? Nope. We will see them as we see them. (I still see Warner as Bob Crachit rather than Lovejoy or Jack the Ripper.)

Creative license allows for speculation, which is what this film is all about. And you can bet your bottom euro/pound/dollar that Cameron will never reveal what he actually had in mind.
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
'Evening, Mary. Not Ms P Galore. Ms C Gale maybe. I still see Warner as the bean-pole youth pursuing Vanessa Redgrave in 'Morgan, A Suitable Case for Treatment' - his first film role and his only one as male lead. I think it was called just 'Morgan' in the US of A, if it got there at all.
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
Then you must be referring to the film in which he wore a gorilla suit, running after Vanessa, whose hair was swinging back and forth. And, yes...it was "Morgan" here in the US of A, and...it definitely got here back in the 60's. I might have had more of a brain then, but there are still a few active cells!

Once a beanpole, always a beanpole.

I had the pleasure of meeting Vanessa's niece, Annabelle, and her mother, Lynn. One of my very few claims to fame.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
Narrative authority is fodder for endless speculation! Waaaaay back when the movie came out, and we were discussing the suicide scene, it was one of Cameron's people, Ed Marsh, who brought up the question of whether we were seeing matters from an objective standpoint or whether, in fact, this was Rose's construction of it (this was by way of explanation that the suicide might not have been history, but rather something Rose heard about). I think it's fairly clear that at least much of the movie is related to us by Rose, as at a few points we fade in and out of her telling the tale, and the tale itself, but how much detail? We know she says that the sheets have never been slept in - does she then go on to describe the way the light falls in the room, or the palms on the private promenade? And does she relate every single conversation, word for word, that we hear? No, but I suggest that an argument can be made that this is her story. So it's okay that the stern slams back and creates an impressive Tsunami effect - that's Rose's memory! And Jack can be a sweet, non-threatening saint who got framed - Rose has had many decades to edit him into a that idyll! The two dimensionality of many of the characters suddenly makes sense when viewed in this light - they're Rose's memories, not objective reality.

Ah - ANTR. Now that had a few grand Oirish scenes, that did ('Come on now, give us a jig!') I seem to recall that, while he was on the set, Kenneth More wanted to talk to Boxhall about Lightoller and his colleagues...Boxhall, on the other hand, wanted to talk about the actresses that More had worked with!
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
Yes, that rings a bell. And bejabers, you're roight dere, me darlin', ANTR's Irish stereotype #1 is the equal of anything dreamed up by Cameron. Though both, of course, pale into insignificance compared with the entire cast of 'The Quiet Man'.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
Bob, sure an' yoir a grand fella! Now will ye join me in a wee bit o'Guinness here in Kitty O'Shea's pub?

One of the great skewerings of the whole Ye Olde Irishe (or Plastic Paddy) aspect of Titanic retellings was in Senan Molony's A Garbled Titantic. Who better to skewer all the Irish stereotypes than an Irish author?
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
Herself prefers a wee bit o' Harp at Seamus O'Toole's in salute to dere ol' Oirland... but never alone.

"An' we're orf to Philadelphia in the mornin..."
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,043
107
333
UK
I wouldn't be here at all but for an brief encounter between my grandmother Mary O'Reilly and a blarney merchant who assured her: "Ah, tis only a dance, come on now!" swiftly followed by "Ah well now, that's enough of that, gives us something livelier!"
 
M

Mary S. Lynn

Guest
And subsequently followed by "I need a good Christian name for the wee one, Father"..as in my case. That "Mary" has been a tag for generations, despite our evolution into the C of E! I am the current recipient.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Similar threads