B Deck Mystery Box


M

Mark Darrah

Guest
A lot of people make a big deal about the single support under the box, but I think a simple explanation is that it's actually a 'T', with the top of the T against the deckhouse.

Not only would it be stable and strong, but the open sides would prevent water/dirt/debris from collecting under it.

I'd be willing to bet that if we could see just a little more to the left, we'd see the end of the second support (the top of the T) under the left side of the box.
 

Bob Read

Member
Mar 3, 2002
393
4
171
Mark:
I personally think the single support or even a T support is kind of a big deal. If you wanted to keep stuff from getting under the box, the simple thing to do would be just to set the box on deck or put a "skirt" like you see on mobile homes around the bottom. The real question is "why raise the box at all"? The only speculation I have on that is that if the box contained water and needed to be completely drained, you could just open a drain on the bottom of the raised box and it could drain
completely. What some call an electrical conduit on the aft side of the box actually has a fitting that looks more like an overflow pipe with fitting. Even if I am right on all of these things, why have a small water tank here? Why not use existing water pipes from the main water supply (no matter what the intended use was).
No speculation I have heard (and I've heard them all)
ties all the sparse evidence together and makes logical sense. Unless somebody finds something in the H&W
archives I suspect that we won't discover the function of this box.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
B

Burel Jean-Pierre

Guest
Two thoughts :
Why not some kind of expansion tank for the water system . Or alternately a drinking water tank for the bar below ?
The box looks like a plumber's item .
The expansion tank theory comes from the placing of the connexion abt midway from the bottom , and from the absence of visible accesssible drain at the bottom .
Remember that there were great temperature differences between seasons on the North Atlantic hence the need for a complex expansion system .
There were also extensive difference in the water system on the three ships . As far as I remember these differences were discussed on the TRMA ( see the article on the Titanic's tank room and its connexions ).


JPB
 
Jan 29, 2001
1,282
0
221
Just how *in tight* did Camereon/Marschall get with their swimming eyeball (R.O.V.)

Knowing of the aggresive nature of Sagalovitch and his MIRS, I think it would be "No problem" for a RUSSIAN COWBOY to dusturb the fitting enough to learn more of it's function/nature.

Let's get a wire to them in time for the '03 tourist event.

Michael A. Cundiff
USA
(It's past my bedtime : - O ...yaaaannnnhhhhh!
 

Ken Marschall

Member
Jan 8, 2002
122
1
171
I'm insane for doing this. It won't happen often. I don't have the time. But I just stumbled across this thread here about the B-deck "mystery box" -- the forward B-deck one -- and had to chime in.

Jim Cameron was kind enough to accomodate me and take a close look at the odd structure with one of his ROVs last year, as described in detail in my online report (see Parks Stephenson's site). The resolution of the video is not high-def, only standard. Very little useful details in the structure are visible, I'm afraid, being so covered with rivers of rust. The only side we didn't see closely is the starboard, looking to port.

It is my hope that, when I get some time, I can obtain video grabs of two or three angles on this thing, composite adjacent frames to increase resolution, and see what we get. I'll try to obtain permission from Walden Media, who own the rights to all this imagery, to post the photos.

Regarding the vertically mounted flat "plates" just inside the forward B-deck bulwark rail, I can't imagine they have anything to do with covering or protecting the adjacent stateroom windows. The holes in their corners would seem to be ridiculously large for such use, a more practical design being in order. And as someone else pointed out, where are the attachment fittings at the corners of the windows?

All best,

Ken
 
Feb 14, 2011
2,447
4
123
There are 2 mystery boxes, which some seem to be mixing up- the B deck mystery box beneath the bridge, and the Boat deck mystery box on the starboard side of the 2nd class enterance.

Could the one under the bridge have been used for tools, or other knick knacks used by the crew? Odd how Olympic lacked such a box. Was Britannic fitted with similar mystery boxes?

Its quite an enigma!

Tarn Stephanos
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,631
446
453
Easley South Carolina
The idea of the box at the B-Deck location being a toolbox of some kind certainly sounds credible to me. Ships tend to have things like that in locations that would be convenient to the crew, and in a veriaty of sizes. This can range from small boxes for stowing things like phones or dogging wrenches to larger fixtures to stow critical damage control equipment.

Ken, I don't think you're insane for addressing this at all...and you might be in a better position to form an opinion then a lot of us given your knowladge of the ship and the access you have to some of the latest images of the wreck. I'd be looking forward to anything you might uncover on this.

Now if you really want to get into masochism, try tackling the Californian. (Better have kevlar skin for that one!)
mad.gif
 
Jan 29, 2001
1,282
0
221
Michael:

Maybe it was the storage area for the PLESORIUS
(spelling incorrect Bill S.?)

There is a photo of this navigational instrument in TITANIC, TRIUMPH and TRAGEDY. Sometime back Mr. Sauder was kind enough to inform me of what it is/was.

Michael A. Cundiff
USA
 
Feb 14, 2011
2,447
4
123
Where were all the flags hoisted up on good friday later stored? Perhaps the B deck mystery box was used as a flag storage container? Being moderatly close to the foremast, the box was in a practical location.

What do you all think?

Tarn Stephanos
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,631
446
453
Easley South Carolina
Tarn, all the flag stowages I've ever seen were considrably larger, and were in a much more convenient location...usually the highest weather deck on a ship with rigging for hoisting the flags attatched to the box.

Michael, the problem I have with the B deck box being used to store any navigation instruments is that it's exactly where you don't need it to be and where all and sundry could get at it. Every navigation instrument I've ever seen was stored on or very close to the bridge.
 
Dec 7, 2000
1,348
9
223
Ken,

What an honour to have you here!
happy.gif


Regarding the vertically mounted flat "plates" just inside the forward B-deck bulwark rail, I can't imagine they have anything to do with covering or protecting the adjacent stateroom windows.

quote:

Olympic Auction Catalogue, p.354

"A" Deck -- Forward [By 1935, Olympic's B deck was known as A deck.]

Lot.4232 Two 2ft. 6 ventilated teak inner doors, leading to First Class Cabins, with brass fittings, and fourteen 3ft. by 2ft. metal window covers [emphasis my own]
Olympic seems to have had these rectangular objects just where Titanic had them on B deck. According to lot 4232, these were window covers. The fact that Olympic had the very same electrical gym equipment for 24 years wouldn't surprise me if these window covers were there all along, and were not a later life addition.

And as someone else pointed out, where are the attachment fittings at the corners of the windows

Titanic had sliding A deck windows, but where was the handle
48039.jpg
for opening them? It seems it was not readily available, at least not on the night of April 14/15 of 1912. It may be possible that the window fasteners were elsewhere as well. They may have been close by, or on the bridge, or in a different place altogether -- we just don't know.

As seen there are 14 such covers mentions for Olympic's fore B deck area, and there were 14 stateroom windows in that area. Titanic had 12 windows, but where Titanic had doors Olympic had windows (thus 14 all up).

Thus I still feel that those plates were window covers, based on the evidence above. How many can be observed on the wreck?

Very Best Regards,

Daniel.

PS. The fore C deck windows also had shutters, it would only seem natural that some were provided for B deck as well.​
 
B

Brigitta Lienhard

Guest
Five 15’ x 12’ foot [tarred] canvas collision mats with 160 pounds of lead weight and suitable rope. Storage arrangements fore / midships / aft.
I believe they had been deployed on the Olympic, re HMS Hawke collision.
Also deployed during near Titanic - New York collision. "Bowyer and Smith acted quickly as collision mats were hung over the Titanic’s stern………….’.
 

Bob Read

Member
Mar 3, 2002
393
4
171
This is in response to Daniel Klistorner's post above:

Although the window covers mentioned above in Olympic's auction catalog have been mentioned before, you are making the connection that therefore they would be stowed against the forward bulwark of B deck.
While that is a plausible theory it does not necessarily follow that they would be stowed in that location.
There is still a cover over something there. I don't think the matter will be settled until that cover is removed.

Additionally, I haven't seen any explanation for the
equally spaced caprail seams on either side of the
object. If Ken were going to look more closely at available footage, I would hope that he takes a close look at those seams.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
May 9, 2001
741
2
171
I didn't know collision mats were deployed in the near miss with the New York. Are we sure about this? If so, I like to know more details about that action.

Yuri
 

Noel F. Jones

Member
May 14, 2002
857
0
0
I didn't know collision mats were deployed in the near miss with the New York. Are we sure about this? If so, I like to know more details about that action.

Yuri


This report is almost certainly either misquoted or erroneous. "Collision mats" would not make sense, "fenders" would.

A collision mat is a thrummed canvas sheet intended to seal a hole in the hull below the waterline. Its deployment necessitates a keelhauling line and would be a major operation involving most of the deck crew.

Noel
 
Dec 4, 2000
3,242
493
278
When was the last time anyone made "thrum," let alone "thrummed" a canvas? or made baggywrinkle? or wove a pudding?

-- David G. Brown
 
Dec 7, 2000
1,348
9
223
Bob,

I wasn't referring to the mystery object on B deck. All I was trying to point out, was that I think the plates seen mounted to the sides on B deck are the window covers. It of course seems that the mystery object may not be related to them.

Daniel.
 

Ken Marschall

Member
Jan 8, 2002
122
1
171
Daniel, et al,

Thanks for informative posts. Daniel asked how many of the vertical panels with the rounded corners and large circular holes are observed on the wreck. They are between every single one of the angled braces supporting that bulwark rail, as best I can tell. That would make at least 17. This does not include the far end spaces, which look narrower on one plan I glanced at. I'd have to queue up an ROV tape and check that. But if they had them too, that would make 19 panels, quite a surplus for the six windows up front and the other eight windows farther aft-- a total of 14 windows forward on B Deck. (I think you forgot the forward-facing windows in staterooms B-16, 17. The cabin plan doesn't show them, but photos do.)

I appreciate the photo you posted showing the crank for the A-deck windows. But I'm still wondering-- how would they have attached such weather covers over the windows without some sort of substantial exterior fitting that would show up in photographs?

We saw the interior workings of those B-deck windows well with the ROV. They lowered down from the inside. You can see the gearing for all that, just like the small windows in the D-deck 1st-class shell doors.

As far as a seam in the teak topcourse goes, yes, I read that before and forgot to comment earlier. I haven't noticed anything more than what I'd consider the natural join of two sections of rail. I certainly never noticed TWO seams close together. If there is truly an obvious break in the rail on either side of the "mystery box" (is that what you're seeing? Sorry-I'd have to go back and check all earlier posts--don't have time), then there is clearly something curious going on. I checked that link with the photo showing the seam and see no mystery box adjacent. I must not be following you guys closely enough. I apologize.

I can't monitor this thread closely, in a timely fashion, due to work obligations. So, it may take a while before I can post again.

Ken
 
Feb 14, 2011
2,447
4
123
Is it possible the A deck windows possessed detachable cranks? I seem to recall reading there was some difficultly in rolling down those windows..

Speaking of which....I wonder if the rolled down glass panes of the A deck windows can still be viewed from inside the promenade, or perhaps they have fallen loose and are buried on the promenade deck? Did you spot the glass panes Ken?

Britannic appeared to have a window configureation quite different than her two sisters, so perhaps each vessel was unique in this respect.

I always found it very odd that the cabins on the Boat deck possessed single paned glass, rather than double pained. Being on the top deck and ecxposed to the elements, one would think those cabins would be fitted with the sturdiest of windows.

I beleive a window from the demolished Captain's quarters area was recovered in 2000, so it would be very interesting to study the workings of that window in close detail.

Tarn Stephanos
 

Similar threads